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March 29, 2005
Wakeup Factor #7 - Fallacies and Credibility
By Dorothy Still In Oz in March of Perceptions
At the functions that I attend, I now pay closer attention to the fallacies that WWDB teaches. I believe the biggest and most pervasive deception is the contention that no one is making it in the traditional business world, that we are all on a treadmill and can't get ahead, that business as usual doesn't work. Through their clever stories, the Diamonds create a need that wasn't there before by asking things like, "Do you make all the money you want to make? Is your debt putting you under financial stress? Do you have time to do all the things you want to do? Don't you want your life back?" Then, they dangle the carrot of freedom with ongoing income, and you're hooked.
They fail to mention that most likely the Quixtar business and their motivational system are going to COST you A LOT of money, that you will be under even MORE financial stress paying for their tools and functions, that you will have even LESS time to do things that you've always found time for before Quixtar was in your life, and that the likelihood of you gaining the freedom with ongoing income that you were picturing the first day you heard of it doesn't even exist.
My husband still believes that there is true freedom in this business, and he wants it desperately. He is now permanently discontent with working 8-10 hours per day, 5 days a week, says that he "can't do this much longer" and that Quixtar is the only hope we have for our future.
Ironically, we've been doing very well with our job income in recent years, but he still has the "I don't want to do this job anymore" attitude to which I ask him "well then, what do you want to do?" — hoping that his answer will have something to do with one of the passions we had before we got into Amway. But no, his reply is "I just want to be free." As if we will be free in Quixtar, ha! What he doesn't want to see is that we would work this business for 50+ hours per week too. We'd become vampires — up all night long and sleeping our sunshine away. Diamonds may have freedom during the day, but they work every night. If they don't, then they will lose their business — almost half of WWDB Diamonds are out-of-qualification at this time. It seems that freedom at Diamond is much more a myth than reality.
The Diamonds sound so credible, caring, and wise when they are speaking. They know just what to say and how to say it to pull those heartstrings. I have no credibility with my husband compared to them. They are — or at least seem to be — godly men of character, honesty, and integrity. He thinks I'm arrogant for thinking I know something that they don't know, and for thinking that any of them might be anything less than the pillars of America. Even I have a hard time believing that Ron Puryear is either a deceiver or deceived. He seems too kind to deceive; he seems too wise to be deceived.
My husband blames my "negative" attitude on himself because we haven't gone Diamond yet. He knows I'm wrong, and that it's his fault for not already providing me with riches. Since I used to believe everything the system teaches, he's sure that I'm negative only from our lack of success. He has a system answer to every argument I bring up about the fallacies and deceptions I see, and he doesn't waver from them.
People need to be taught to recognize fallacies. They are everywhere in advertising/marketing. Fallacies are put forward as facts and truths throughout Quixtar plan presentations. I appreciate this forum because the fallacies are exposed as such, and people are shown how to identify the fallacies and how to analyze the facts.
I think most of the Diamonds believe the fallacies they promote. That's why they are so good at promoting them. Some may see through the deception, but those Diamonds don't have the guts, like Bo Short, to publicly say they were wrong and then start over. Would I in their place? I hope so, but I don't know. After all, I kept the Platinum "tool money", didn't I?
The "March of Perceptions" is a special Quixtar BLOG project featuring the perceptions of four guest bloggers during the month of March.
Comments
Me too! I'm hoping time will give him courage to break away. I know that he wants to quit, doesn't actually want to do the work of building the business, but still believes. Thanks Deb!
Dorothy -
Keep in mind that even the carefree show the Pins put on in the evenings doesn't come w/o careful prep. Saying (or thinking or believing) that the Diamonds (and their kind) are "free" as far as their schedules are concerned is like saying the President (and I mean any President) has a vacation when he goes to his ranch or his compound or Camp David or where ever he might go.
Vacation? One side says a Presiden't time is scheduled down to the minute, including flying time. The other side says all they do is goof off when they're not in the Oval Office. Which makes more sense? I say they work. All the time. Every day. Their calendar and schedule backs that up. But still, those who are anti-whoever-is-in-office will still say that Presidents take a lot of vacations, and the country has to run itself.
Same thing with ANY high ranking company officer. No real CEO or corporate president (or A/Q Diamond) goofs off all day or all night (or every weekend) and stays on top very long. If we look at it intuitively, we can see that although Joe Diamond has given us this gift of his presence for the evening (when, our upline will attest, he could have stayed home and goofed off - because he's free), he still had to pack, prep, drive/fly, unpack, dress for the event, stay up until 2am or later, and then do all that in reverse to get back to goofing off at home. And guess what? He has graciuosly volunteered his time tomorrow or then next night too! Another downline group meeting, another city. Free time my foot!
But what if it WERE true? And stretch that even further - what if a Diamond actually LIVED the life they portray? Travelling the globe, lounging by the pool, month in & month out. Sure, he'd have hired hands pushing paper and monitoring the business; but HE built it, HE will maintain it. Without the business travel, the substantial time required, and the out-of-pocket expenses, HIS business would wither like any other unattended business.
That's why they sell the DREAM, not the soap & vitamins. They can't live off product money, and in order to have a shot at living the life they sell, they need to sell US that very life. And, since NO ONE in Q had achieved it, I'd say we're sold a bill of goods, at best. If the A/Q (or MLM) "opportunity" were THAT good, everyone would do it. And if it were so attainable, we'd all be on stage getting a new pin. But not only did it not work for many people before Q, it hasn't worked for any IBOs that joined Q.
I'm not going to rip any one's personal or professional abilities, but come on!! You'd think that if the 2-5 year Dream plan were so workable, that at least 1 out of the hundreds of thousands of Q IBOs over the last 6 years would have attained it. But, they haven't. So it's really only the Fallacies that have the Credibility!
My bad! #7 yet? How many wakeup factors were there, Dorothy? It is so unbelievable that an A/Q Platinum should say this! They are the leaders, right? Rich himself said so! Unbelievable, indeed.
Anyway, please keep it up! It reads like a fable... all the way from #1.
Dorothy,
I'm curious, what is your husband's response to the huge system profits and the Diamonds making the great majority of their income from the very tapes he's buying? And how it's almost certainly an illegal business due to there being no retail customer? Does he still believe that the system is sold at or near cost?
Cheers
How very sad. I am lucky in that my husband listened to me when I began having doubts. Although he's not one for research, he knows I am, and that I'm usually quite thorough. Once I began reading him story after story - verifiable account after verifiable account - and he was receiving NO credible evidence to the contrary or even answers to our questions from our WWDB upline - he too, saw the light.
At our last function, we tacked a vacaction onto the front of Family Reunion weekend. My husband was floored when we ran into our Diamonds, Emeralds, and their 'Moving Up' group at a resort... WE were there enjoying ourselves, and they were there 'teaching'. But the worst part was when one of the Diamond couple said "What are you doing here? You aren't a double-eagle!" Our response? "Enjoying our vacation." It was almost like they were appalled that we could enjoy ourselves or 'be somewhere' where they were when we weren't at their level.
Once we arrived at the function, we sat & estimated the attendance and did the math. Where did all that money go? We left early that evening, and never went back.
Upon returning home, it was more research. That's when we learned that the male of our upstanding Diamond couple - who both talked so glowingly and religiously about the sanctity of marriage - was actually divorced, and that his story of going Diamond as a single was a complete fallacy. And to think that he COUNSELS people on their maritial relationships without this disclosure.
Yes, Dorothy, I can also attest that within WWDB, it is one fallacy after another. I'm sorry you are not yet 'free' - in EITHER sense of the word.
Axel - Yes, he knows the profits in the system tools & functions. He believes that the Diamonds have earned their tool profits through all the help they give to their downline for no charge - that it is the charge, per se, for mentorship.
As far as the legality, he has such high respect for the WWDB Diamond Management team that he could never believe that they would do something illegal. How could they hide from the law? They have a giant building in Spokane, WA with many employees! I wouldn't even bring this subject up with him at this stage because he would just laugh. I'm not afraid of his ridicule; it's just futile to go there. His critical thinking is still mostly suspended, but I see small breakthroughs every month. Maybe, in time, we will be able to get this far into the AQMO deception discussion.
Dorothy, surely he has been told by your upline to not reveal the scale of the tool profits to your downline? Out of curiosity, how does he justify this secrecy mandate?
Maybe he can put two and two together and realize that it's hidden because it would almost certainly be determined illegal in a court of law.
Cheers
I think the real reason why this information is hidden is because it would be determined immoral in the court of public opinion.
My x Triple Diamond hasn't retired.He got in 1971,went Diamond 3 years later.His first wife committed suicide in early 90's,his son committed suicide 2 or 3 years ago and he is still pushing the business.If he is so rich why don't he take his only son thats left and go enjoy the life and freedom that he has preached for years.
What's the name of that triple diamond Ray?
I am just starting to do research on QuixTar. I have a coworker who has been doing this for 4 years and he says this is his wife's last year of teaching and that in another year he will give up his job and just promote Quixtar.
Is Quixtar associated with Amway?
There a lot of BS about every biz thats out their you just have to learn to read between the lines.
At least they don't charge you several hundred dollars to get started and not give you anything but a so called website in return.
If I do take the plunge then that means that it is possible to make a living off of something other than just building a downline.
I still have a lot of investigating to do.
Someone Else I know makes all his income from LifeForce sell a supplement called yBallance. None of his income comes from building a downline, it all comes for him off of sal;es of the product.
Come on guys. I am an active IBO been with WWDB for 9 years. My question to anybody in here is how many of you have ran a business outside of a Quixtar business and how successful was it. Owning a business is different than working for someone else. My bet is that anybody in here whinning about Quixtar and what it takes to succeed has never ran any other type of business successfully.
"he says this is his wife's last year of teaching and that in another year he will give up his job and just promote Quixtar."
I guarantee you that they have been saying that every year they've been involved. And if they stay in, in all likelihood, they'll be saying that for years to come.
"Is Quixtar associated with Amway?"
Yes. Quixtar is the Internet version of Amway for North America. "Amway" changed its name to "Alticor, Inc." and changed the name of its subsidiary "AmwayUSA, Inc." to "Quixtar." All of the lines of sponsorship, the Amway products, the tools and the corporate and organizational leadership are the same as they were before.
"There a lot of BS about every biz thats out their you just have to learn to read between the lines."
With Amway/Quixtar you don't even have to read between the lines. You can read it in their own internal company documents.
"At least they don't charge you several hundred dollars to get started and not give you anything but a so called website in return."
No. You also get a small quantity of overpriced Amway products and some useless motivational tapes if you sign up for the typical startup package that most Amway/Quixtar systems sell. If you subscribe to one of these motivational and training systems, however, it can costs you thousands of dollars a year (though most of these systems WILL include a website with that - assuming that sort of thing is your bag).
"If I do take the plunge then that means that it is possible to make a living off of something other than just building a downline."
It's not reasonably possible to make a living selling these products. You can make some profit as a side income, but if you have the talent, skills and experience to sell Amway's overpriced household consumable products, I'm pretty sure you could make a LOT more money doing something else with your time.
What is "whinning", critter?
Critter,
I have run a business successfully. Have you?
Yes I have and compared to a typical business the Quixtar business model has a lot less negatives. No business is perfect and I don't feel like WWDB has ever said nor implied that. I don't think they decieve anybody either. But just like anything in life you have to keep things in the proper perspective and compare apples to apples.
Hey critter, first I'll answer your question, and I hope you answer some of mine.
I've never personally run my own business, but was part of a successful family owned business for over a decade. Sold it for a nice profit a couple of years ago. I'm considering starting my own company maybe soon, and with my family experience, I believe I will be successful.
Now, for my questions. You've been in WWDB for 9 years. Are you a diamond yet? If not, do you tout the 2-5 year plan when showing the plan? And if so, how do you account for the fact, that if you are not a diamond, that you should have been one twice over according to your own plan?
Also, how much money did you profit (on your Schedule C if you live in the USA)? How much of your profit comes from retail (member/client) sales and how much comes from personal consumption and your downline's personal consumption?
I have a bunch more, but these are a good start. And before you go saying things like I'm just using "stinkin thinkin" or some other tapespeak, I'm a firm believer that the Devil is in the details, and when you look at the details of AmQuix, all you find is the Devil.
I have had my own business with employees and it can be a headache. A franchise would have been a lot easier because then I could of duplicated what somebody els has already done and made money with.
This is where companies like Amway get their model, Duplication. Look what Ray Kroc and McDonalds have done, same concept.
The fact that Amway is behind Quixtar adds a lot of credibility. They=ve been around since 1959 and to be able to stay in business that long they have to be doing something right. The only diff between Quixtar and Amway is being able to resell products like Nike, Addidas, Electronics, everyday items, etc..
I am still investigating and will continue to do so.
Warren Buffet, bilionaire stock guru, just bought "The Pampered Chef" which says a lot about the MLM/Networking Biz.
DMM,
I think those are good honest questions. I will try to answer all of them.
Are you a diamond yet? NO
If not, do you tout the 2-5 year plan when showing the plan? Yes
And if so, how do you account for the fact, that if you are not a diamond, that you should have been one twice over according to your own plan? Who says I should have? Just because I have had a card that allows me to buy stuff for 9 yrs doesn't mean I should be a diamond. That is not at all what is taught. I agree with you the devil is in the details. So why don't you ask relavant questions like "What has been your work habit"
Also, how much money did you profit (on your Schedule C if you live in the USA)? Sorry I can't honest answer this one cuz I haven't done my taxes yet this year and I don't have them from last year handy.
How much of your profit comes from retail (member/client) sales and how much comes from personal consumption and your downline's personal consumption? I have 5 regular retail customers that I service monthly. I profit about $100 a month on them. Then depending on the amount of wholesale volume I run determins how big my bonus check is.
Here is the thing DMM I hope you have great success in what ever business you start. Sounds like we have a lot in common I too come from a family that still owns a multi million dollar business. So you and I both understand that a good business is one that is profitable. I bought a business nine years ago and it has been profitable since the first month. Now I am not rich because of it but that is not the point. My other business is still trying to pay off the origial loan to start it. I can admit Quixtar isn't for everybody but neither is what you do. In my humble opinion if somebody has a Costco card they should have a Quixtar card. I pay for my renewals every year simply by the saving at Jiffi Lube, Kinkos, and Office Max. Again make sure you are compareing apples to apples.
The fact that Warren Buffet bought "Pampered Chef" says alot about OWNING a network marketing company. It says nothing about being a distributor for one.
BTW, critter. I am a partner in a _very_ successful business right now. I've even run a relatively successful Amway distributorship. It appears as though your ad hominem is wide of the mark with this crowd.
Critter:
If you do what you consider the necessary work to sell Amway/Quixtar products, what will be your expected average return on your investment from retail sales? Please include all of your expenses and the value of your time. If you want, you can set the value of your time at minimum wage for purposes of preparing a projected balance sheet.
"Warren Buffet, bilionaire stock guru, just bought "The Pampered Chef" which says a lot about the MLM/Networking Biz."
Yes, but pampered chef is not a load of hype about how every single person that hosts a party can become a millionaire.
There is a product (my wife loves the stuff!) It costs a bit more, but if my wife likes it, that's good enough for me. Don't care, long as she's happy.
There are NO motivational products to speak of. My wife became friends with a pampered chef lady, and ALL she tried to do was get people together, into a party, and SELL PRODUCTS!!!
Ahhhhhh. There's the difference. Pampered Chef moves PRODUCTS!
AmQuix moves motivation under the guise of a product moving company.
Not the same, not even close.
And if the Amaway name has Soooo much credibility, then why don't people use it more when offering a chance to become an IBO?
You know as well as I do why they don't. MLM is MLM, we all know that, but Amway is something that not too many people are interested in.
I'll bet that people would have no problem going to a Pampered Chef party.
The only way you'll get them to an Amway meeting is to not tell them it's Amway.
And so it goes.
I am now divorced from a man who had to have it all. He was so wrapped up in the "dream",that he lost touch with reality. He went as far as quiting an engineering job to become a traveling sales man for a candy distributions company so that he could "meet more people and build "our" buisness bigger" Needless to say it didnt and I was left at home to take care of our 4 kids, home, and work my J-O-B and work the real thing that was going to bring us happy ness. or so he thought. Well he is no longer in Q-- even though he still stays in touch with his sponsers
I hated it from the beginning. I dont know how much money we spent on getting rich and the comments that my negativity was bring us down and keeping us poor. Trying to explain to my children that we werent having a birthday party for them because this meeting was more important and think of the birthday partys we will have when we are diamonds. blah blah blah......... Crying my self to sleep because for our 14th aniv. we spent it showing the plan to 3 people in our home and him going out after it was over to visit with the ruby that came in and did the meeting for us while I did the good little wife thing and cleaned up the mess and put the chairs and board away.
I have a wonderful husband now that works hard every day to provide for us and on the off time we enjoy each other and our kids as free time. I now understand that I am richer than any of those Diamonds or Tripple diamonds. I have love and no amount of money can bring that much happyness.
Not to jump off topic, buy why is Dorthy the only one really contributing to MOP. Where is Jennybot and the rest?
Dorthy, I appreciate your candor in your series and I do hope you get free of that scam.
Okay, back on topic:
Critter: "I can't honest answer this one cuz I haven't done my taxes yet this year and I don't have them from last year handy. "
Did you have any luck with those Schedule Cs yet. You're gonna be a little late this year huh? And how about last year, did you dig that out yet?
Critter: "I bought a business nine years ago and it has been profitable since the first month"
You did? You covered your original sign up fee after 4 weeks of operation? I think there is a caveat here - another one of your 'devil in the details' manuevers.
Critter: "In my humble opinion if somebody has a Costco card they should have a Quixtar card. I pay for my renewals every year simply by the saving at Jiffi Lube, Kinkos, and Office Max. Again make sure you are compareing apples to apples. "
I completely disagree with your humble opinion; Costco costs @$40 to join and @$20 to renew each year. That is much lower than the $200+ to join and $50 to renew for AmQuix. Costco offers product at a DISCOUNT (nothing over 14% markup) whereas AmQuix is selling at a PREMIUM to cover 'bonuses'. You, Critter, ARE NOT comparing apples to apples.
I look forward to your reply, keep the devil out of the details this time ;)
Also, I am fascinated to see the breakdown requested by Lawdawg: "If you do what you consider the necessary work to sell Amway/Quixtar products, what will be your expected average return on your investment from retail sales? Please include all of your expenses and the value of your time. If you want, you can set the value of your time at minimum wage for purposes of preparing a projected balance sheet."
Please, please,please --answer that balance sheet above all else!
As much as I enjoy having intelligent conversion I am having a hard time finding it in here. As soon as I give you the details of my schedule C from this year you will wont believe me anyways. Have you ever heard the term "pissing in the wind" I my goal in coming in here was to simple see if there was an intelligent agruement and I haven't heard one. I said I have been profitable since the first month and you simply said
"You did? You covered your original sign up fee after 4 weeks of operation? I think there is a caveat here - another one of your 'devil in the details' manuevers."
Which translates to "I don't care what you say I am not going to believe you"
(speak of the devil)
And I encourage you to get your facts straight it cost about $40 to sign up in Quixtar and about the same to renew. I also explained how that cost was covered in my savings from 3 stores, which again supports my opinion that you don't want to hear the fact you just have an axe to grind. I am truely sorry that you had a bad experience. Truth is sometime a relative term and it sounds like in your mind this business is a scam and it simple doesn't matter what anybody else says. I have done my home work, I am a businessman, and I can't see where continueing this converasion does anybody any good. Best wishes to all in here I pray your life is blessed.
So you aren't going to answer my question I take it?
(shuffle, shuffle, shuffle)
Another 'critter' goes back to his hole....
Along with Chris, Mike, Jenny and soon-enough, 'eminem'!
You really can't be surprised by this?!?
Hold on everyone!! Where's that PARTY???? You know the one rocket's having!! Sounds like loads of FUN!! You know, the one I think you go to and buy something like a plastic cutting board for 3 times the normal price? Is that the one??
PARTY ON DUDE!
sorry, ain't goin away..
Em, glad you are staying. Maybe you can pick up the slack of your AQ bretheren.
For example, take lawdawg's question:
"If you do what you consider the necessary work to sell Amway/Quixtar products, what will be your expected average return on your investment from retail sales? Please include all of your expenses and the value of your time. If you want, you can set the value of your time at minimum wage for purposes of preparing a projected balance sheet."
ok I'll take a stab at it...
If critter is servicing 5 customers and generating about $20 profit on each every month....hmmm .. I think this will include Grandma, cousin Ed, the neighbor lady, gal who works at the office, and couple he showed the plan to. So, most of these he's gonna see every month anyway. This is how it generally works out. So I guess he stops on his way to somewhere else to service the last customer. He's going to product pick-up anyway. So I don't see any real extra time being eaten up by servicing the customers he has. Maybe an hour or two. Therefore the answer is $14. So there.
BTW df, the renewal at costco is $40 not $20.
Anyone here running a fairly succesful Amway/Quixtar retail business? Could you comment on remarks I made about the problem with the Alticor product focus under "The business about the business" and let me know if you agree or not.
Critter, I think you should come back. You made some good points. Held your own quite well at that.
HEY EM!! (Auntie Em! Auntie Em!)
No, my wife has not bought a cutting board for 3 times the cost. She likes Pampered Chef, not your rinky dink Quixtar.
To be able to answer the question that Lawdawg posed (it's a good one) maybe it would help to finish the discussion we were having in the Platinum Slaves thread that you were hoping nobody would notice. It is relevant to the discussion, so if anyone is interested check out the comments under platinum slaves. Just don't leave a comment so that it's open for Auntie Em to answer.
If he can. Not holding my breath, since it would require him to validate a point.
Again Emminemm, if you want to make a difference, just don't be like a lot of the IBO's that end up paddling off into the sunset after they've had a reality paddling.
By clarifying points that YOU MAKE, is a great start, Winner!!
Interesting, Em. So you think he has five customers generating $20 profit each, or $100 in profit.
To get $100 in Quixtar's compensation scheme you'd have to have around 600 PV (which would give 9% of BV) yielding slightly more than $100 in bonus. So you buy 100 pv yourself and get five customers to buy 100 pv each. That's $250 a month worth of Amway products for each of your customers. And you think you could do that with 1-2 hours of time? I see that's your answer, but it isn't a credible one and demonstrates that you didn't really think it through.
Also, Em, you forgot that critter is on WWDB system (it works if you work it). So you also forgot to include his monthly tools expenditures - which other WWDBers have posted run about $400-$700. So giving critter the benefit of the doubt, and even assuming he could sell $1250 a month in Amway products in 2 hours as you suggest, his $100 net bonus, when set off against his tools expenses of $400 and $12.70 for his time would yield a net LOSS of $312.70.
"But, wait . . . " you claim, "he can duplicate this business model and eventually become profitable on his downline's volume." Hold on there pardner . . . that would be duplicating a business that loses money - thereby guarnteeing that the vast majority of people who get involved are losing money.
And BTW, I've personally sold $1250 (and more) worth of Amway products in a month and I'm a damn good salesman. It would take a lot more than 1-2 hours to do $1250 in retail volume. More like 40-50 hours a month if you want to sustain existing customers and to continually replace ones who don't reorder. Even halving that number (20 hours = $127 at min. wage), and ignoring the tools expenses, would still result in a net loss. And remember, for this analysis I am only giving my time the value of minimum wage.
Have you ever sold $1250 in Amway/Quixtar products to non-IBOs, Em?
Even if it does cost $40 to renew @ Costco, isn't that better than losing money at AmQuix??????????
Lawdawg-great points, your experience provides insight that I don't have; but it echos what I have seen for years.
Em-bot, you got blown off the stage again.
Another rap battle lost. Maybe you can do better if you provide your OWN DATA instead of some hypothetical nonsense about critter. Critter has already slumped off into the sunset, onto the road to bankruptcy. Let's hear what about YOU!
Yes! We will go off quietly into the night!!!
Thanks Dawg!! You are fantastic with the numbers aspect. DF, he did lose that rap battle, so I made a rap for him. Maybe he'll have better luck, and I think it would be a good way to start off a plan session:
"My name's Em, and I'm no fool
I'm in Amway because I think it's cool"
Auntie Em? No intelligent rebuttal? Surely your business doesn't suck........
(sound of crickets chirping..........)
lawdawg--are you on a system? LOS?
Am interested in getting some tips on being able to retail the amount of product you have. For example what tends to move better-- Nutrilite, household, bigger ticket items? Is it consistent volume every month? Maybe you have said some of this in the forums...
Would sincerely like to know more from someone who is successful at it.
Let me ask you this, first, Em.
What is it that you hope to accomplish in Quixtar and what is it that you believe Quixtar can do for you?
lawdawg-- I want to pick your brain on this, since you are obviously got very good at retailing. I think it would be useful information for someone wanting to focus on better retailing.
I take critter's statement on retail profit as he states it, obvious for what it is, pure retail profit. I don't think he's claiming bonus money as part of that $100. He states bonus money is above and beyond that. Just retail profit. You are reading more into it. We have not been told his level. It doesn't matter anyway as most people with half dozen customers are servicing people close to them, not a route. As far as his tools is concerned, don't assume everyone in WWG is on Standing Order, goes to all the major functions or even all the minor ones! LOTS of people are not plugged in fully. That is a HUGE misconception I find here on this site. Don't Diamonds WISH it could be so! But alas, it is not.
The cost of the tools is greatly overstated. For a single, SOT is about $50/mo; admissions to majors average out to about $50-60/mo; opens, SLMs, regionals(4) for the year will average out to $20/mo; misc tapes/cd, book, etc let's say about $20/mo. This is a bare-bones framework for being plugged into the tools system in WWG. About $150/mo. Of course, some do more, but based on what critter states and what I think where he's at, I don't think I'm far off the mark with these figures. Certainly don't believe he's running $4-700 a month in tools costs. Now that $100 retail profit, a bonus, and some savings based on card use, he's most likely even. Admittedly, it's not a good pin level to be at, but I know it's not the huge losses some people make it out to be. Believe me, I know this.
think I could type my own handle? ha.
You know I was in Quixscam, and am just realizing what a cult it is with its emotional manipulation. They prey on the weak that's why you hardly ever see emotionally successful people doing it. I have left my email the way it is because it is funny to me now. As far as critter and eminem or whatever, that is crazy if you don't realize how this thing is deceptive and just morally wrong! In this thing it doesn't matter how "hard you work it" eventually it is about having to con people with motivational sales and call anybody that differs in opinion a "loser" or someone who has lost their "dreams". The fact that nobody in Amway or Quixtar likes to get involved in the facts is because they are on the losing side of the arguement. Oh yeah and when I was involved I remembered saying that I was doing very well and making money when I was in fact stressed from losing money! So don't buy into everyone who says they are successful, actually being that way.Peace Out Peep$(Don't let the man keep you Down)
Emminem> The cost of the tools is greatly overstated. For a single, SOT is about $50/mo; admissions to majors average out to about $50-60/mo; opens, SLMs, regionals(4) for the year will average out to $20/mo; misc tapes/cd, book, etc let's say about $20/mo. This is a bare-bones framework for being plugged into the tools system in WWG. About $150/mo. Of course, some do more, but based on what critter states and what I think where he's at, I don't think I'm far off the mark with these figures. Certainly don't believe he's running $4-700 a month in tools costs. Now that $100 retail profit, a bonus, and some savings based on card use, he's most likely even. Admittedly, it's not a good pin level to be at, but I know it's not the huge losses some people make it out to be. Believe me, I know this.
Joe> So you're teaching people to get into business to break even and teach others to do the same?
It's too bad that your husband thinks he's going to gain "freedom" via Quixtar. My experience is that Q, when maintained at a level above platinum; is the most labor-intensive business one can be in.
At least most "regular" jobs have somewhat consistant hours, and one can plan on free time with the family on most weekends.
With Q - you can bust your butt building a downline - and it can all fall apart no matter what you do.
I'm hoping he sees the light?
Deb
Posted by: Deb | March 29, 2005 7:43 PM