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March 12, 2005
Wakeup Factor #2 - Ongoing Income
By Dorothy Still In Oz in March of Perceptions
Where have all the Diamonds gone? I count 25 out-of-qualification Diamonds from WWDB alone (out of the 56 total that I know of). I was devastated when I first learned of a Diamond falling "out." Now, I see that it happens all the time. So is there freedom in this business or not?
Do you have to be "Brad Wolgamott-driven" to keep your current legs growing without personally sponsoring? We haven't made ourselves do this thing yet — how will we stay that driven for the long haul? It's not who we are, and it's not why we started this.
We started this to fund our true passions, but those dreams are long gone. Now it's only acceptable if this biz is our #1 passion. As I see it, it will only work long term if we work it fulltime forever. Who is there at the top that doesn't work it but has a true legacy? Ron Puryear, Greg Duncan, Brad Duncan?
Brad Duncan shared at Go Diamond Weekend (Platinums & above only) that he worked this 5 nights a week for 10 years straight to have the freedom and money he has now. And he didn't include driving time, function time, voicemail time, counseling time, call-in/pickup time, or nuts & bolts time. In January, all current Diamonds made a public commitment to sponsor 24 new "legs" this year. Why? Just to be an example? Diamond freedom isn't good enough? Or, is it that if a Diamond doesn't keep up CORE habits, then his downline won't either?
That's not what I was shown and not what I signed up for. What happened to 8-10 hrs per week for 2-5 years? When will I get time for my dreams? No, not the fancy house and cars, not the trips with Quixtar IBOs, but the dreams I had when I started this thing — the real passions I had before I attended a hundred functions and listened to a thousand tapes?
The "March of Perceptions" is a special Quixtar BLOG project featuring the perceptions of four guest bloggers during the month of March.
Comments
Thanks for a great post Dorothy.
I'm still officially an "IBO" under the WWDB system, being what they call a prosumer. My 'membership' in WWDB will cost me $24 this year (instead of $12) just to have access to their website if I choose to renew. I look through the 'success stories' and I haven't seen any added OR deleted in two or more years...which leads me to believe that 'once a Diamond, always a Diamond', at least in terms of presentation. I would be interested to know which have actually fallen out of qualification.
You make an excellent point about your dreams being molding into only one dream...the passion to build your business to this level. You are absolutely correct in that EVERY SINGLE high level distributor views their business as the highest priority focus in their life at the EXCLUSION of other interests, people, faith, or family. That was my big wake up call - the fact that they really could not comprehend having friends without their business - that they couldn't comprehend spending time with their families without the business - that they didn't WANT friends who were not in the business - that vacations weren't truly vacations, but were 'part of the business' - that they couldn't worship God without including the 'business'. It is so very sad. And I too, like Keith Sr., am glad I'm free.
The single most amazing thing here, is that Dorothy, and Michael (who no longer comes here) are in the Puryear organization.... and have such radical differing views of the tools.
Roger
There is a dif between Dorothy and Michael. She's getting tool money, Michael isn't.
"'Where's the beef?' I'll kill myself for 10 years for 10 hours a night to make 100K/year" - Keith Sr.
About four years ago, at the River Rendezvous trip, Brad Duncan stated that he had made 40 million in this business to date. He did not qualify that number - gross sales? gross profit? net profit? I will assume net profit before expenses. At the time, he had been in 20 years. So, he's averaged 2 mill per year in net profit with the bulk of that income coming in after going Diamond. So there is bigger money if you get to Double Diamond and above.
My point is that if one wants true freedom in the WWDB system, one must do A LOT more than the 2-5 year plan for true freedom.
And still I wouldn't consider Brad Duncan free. He claims that he is the freeist man on earth, but he can't get out of any WWDB functions, can he? Can he stop checking voicemail daily? Can he be unavailable for his downline for weeks? Not ever. IMO, being a Diamond is just a different kind of a job.
"I would be interested to know which have actually fallen out of qualification." - Disenchanted IBO
See my list of WWDB Diamonds here: http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1304&start=0
These are out-of-qualification, unless they've slipped back in and I haven't noticed yet:
Becker, Brooks, Carroll, Cox, Cummins, Eggers, Faught, Gallo, Grosvenor, Hall, Jao, Kaneshiro, Kelly, Kim, Koning, Lamazor, Lowary, Mace, Marshall, Radford, Stokes, Strong, Timko, Wells, Woodhead
Remember that old lady on the, I think, Burger King commercial- she yelled "WHERE'S THE BEEF?" That's more to what I meant- although I've got lots of other beefs with The System.
I agree with Dorothy completely: Many people hear "freedom" but think "money."
Which is not there.
I think that "freedom" is the biggest lie in the business- as evidenced by the most successful distributors themselves.
If you work hard and build a "business as usual" business, you can sell out, walk away with a pile of cash, and be "free."
I don't see this happening in WWDB, or any other LOS.
A/Qbots, prove me wrong.
Thanks guys! You saved me! My girlfriend was approached by an IBO from Quixtar and she almost got hooked by them. I thought the whole thing sounded fishy but didn't have any "proof" like her IBO seemed to have. I found this website which finally revealed the truth behind Quixtar. She is going back to her IBO and asking for her money back and returning the books.
I'm confused....
"There is a dif between Dorothy and Michael. She's getting tool money, Michael isn't."
Posted by: QBlog
I thought Michael was the "pro-Q" person and Dorothy was the "skeptic"?
By that definition wouldn't it be the other way around?
Roger
Dorothy,
Could you point out which tape contains the exact statement of working 8-10 hours a week for 2-5 years will result in going diamond?
It's always been taught by Ron in Worldwide that you need to kick it into high gear if you want diamond...he even stated he worked it much harder for two years to reach Diamond. Working 8-10 hrs is a start at building a business, done correctly, you'll probably reach platinum. Beyond that you'll need to do more. I think you are connecting two different ideas here.
And for the kind of money Brad is making, I sure would spend a few minutes checking voicemail and showing up at a few functions!
And you want $2 million a year for never doing anything ever again?? What a crybaby.
"And you want $2 million a year for never doing anything ever again?? What a crybaby."
Yeah, if he was truly "never doing anthing ever again".
He stops pushing his tools, stops keeping the 60-80 hours a week that he keeps doing in his business, and that money goes away! What depend on the residual of Quixtar bonus....sure, but as the group dissolves without his constant attention and the majority of his money coming from tools... he'd fade into obscurity.
Roger
"Could you point out which tape contains the exact statement of working 8-10 hours a week for 2-5 years will result in going diamond?"
They don't tape STPs. Used to be - before the PFR - that WWDB Diamonds wrote on the top corner of the board as they went along:
8-10Hrs/Wk
2-5 Yrs
I've recently seen Diamonds ask us to write this at the top of page 3 of the PFR at an open meeting.
"I think you are connecting two different ideas here." Yes and no. Yes, the old tape was RP248 Two Visions to Success (now WW156 Prosumer to Diamond) which did explain 1-2 nights per week to go Ruby, then 5 nights a week to go Diamond. My question is: how long for a new IBO between seeing the plan (8-10hrs/week for 2-5yrs) and listening to this tape? And even in Ron's teaching of 1-2 nights/wk to go Ruby, he doesn't mention the extras: callin, pickup, functions, etc... Ron Puryear teaches this business as if 1-2 nights a week is all it takes. Emminemm, I dare you to try going Ruby working only 8-10 hrs/wk. BUT, you must count every minute spent on the business, not just the STP time. Ron Puryear does hook people in with "part-time effort"; he does deceive; I've seen his plan a few times. Have you?
Yes, I know he teaches bump it up to Fast Track effort to go Diamond (five nights/wk), but NOT in the plan to new prospects, and we ALWAYS show the 2-5 yr plan to make 250K. Parttime to 250K is the direct implication and many times directly stated.
"And fort the kind of money Brad is making, I sure would spend a few minutes checking voicemail and showing up at a few functions!" That's not all he does, and you know it. AND, that wasn't my point anyways. My point is that "freedom" means something different to your average prospect than it means to even a Triple Diamond. Again, we're talking about the deceptions promoted to the new prospects.
"And you want $2 million a year for never doing anything ever again?? What a crybaby."
Dean...is that you? Sure sounds like him. No, I don't want $2 mill for doing nothing. What I want is the freedom to pursue MY dreams, and it is apparent to me that I will never have that freedom as a Diamond, or even a Triple Diamond in the WWDB system. They made it sound like I would be able to pursue my dreams with the time and money I would make from this, but they deceived me. There's a whole lot that they "forgot to mention" before I got sucked in with the mind control techniques.
I have what may be a naive question, but what exactly determines when and how much tool money an IBO receives? Is there a hard and fast formula for it? Is it determined by how many tools anIBO's downline buys and or how many functions they attend, or is it more subjective than this?
Inquiringmind, Every AQMO distributes their tool profits differently. Currently, in WWDB, only Platinums and above receive profit on tool sales, and only Emeralds and above receive speaker fees.
The Platinums receive $7 per month per Premier Member and a significant retail markup (the % differs per item anywhere from 20%-250%) for tools sold to those who are not members. They also receive a small bonus on services that WWDB offers to IBOs.
I don't know the speaker fees but www.amquix.info has a 1987 WWDB contract with some old numbers. No one has offered up a more current contract for any AQMO as far as I know.
Dorothy, thanks for your help. I still have a few questions. What exactly is a premier member? Also, what tools would someone buy if they are not members? It appears that there are no hard and fast rules about who gets exactly how much when it comes to tool money. Could it be said that if you are not, as an IBO, pushing and promoting tools and functions, that you may not be considered for tool money from your upline diamond? In doing so, is it stillpossible to "retire" with only product money?
Dorothy,
1-2 nights/week is referring to the frequency of SHOWING THE PLAN, not to pickup, functions, etc. By the way you can get in a couple of plans each night, that's 4 PLANS A WEEK if you use your time efficiently.
Any beginning IBO will learn what is required to obtain diamond level soon enough. I hardly call this deception--anyone can find out the extra effort needed for diamond discussed at most any regional or major. Or any counseling on the matter as well.
Remember there is usually a couple involved--the other partner can take care of the call-in/pick-up. 8-10 hrs a week per person then does not become unreasonable to get the work done.
By the way, I don't think Brad is thinking about quitting any time soon. Don't think he's complaining about what he has to do. Nope don't think so. Do you think he does Dorothy? Believe me, these guys have enough time on their hands to do whatever they want. Yeah they continue to work it because it's what they know best and what makes most sense for them economically. Sitting on a beach all day long, every day would get old real fast. But if that's what you want or something else, go ahead and unplug when you get big. Hey I know Emeralds you haven't seen in years, still hauling in buckets of money.
"What exactly is a premier member?"
See here for an explanation:
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24815&highlight=premier#24815
"Also, what tools would someone buy if they are not members?"
I have quite a few IBOs who did not become members who still order "standing order tape" and many other tools.
"It appears that there are no hard and fast rules about who gets exactly how much when it comes to tool money."
Rules? Actually, it IS specifically set; the info is just not shared with the masses.
"Could it be said that if you are not, as an IBO, pushing and promoting tools and functions, that you may not be considered for tool money from your upline diamond? In doing so, is it stillpossible to "retire" with only product money?"
Dude, you need to start reading the quixtarblog forum. And Merchants of Deception. And www.amquix.info. The answers to all your questions are there...
Actually, I would suggest for inquiring mind to read the Ruth Carter Book "Beyond the Smoke and Mirrors." It's an in depth look at a diamond's financials and it answers the question about being able to live off of AmQuix sales alone.
As for you, emminemm, here's a question. If getting to diamond is layed out in front of you, and you say your system works if you work it, how come there is only 1 diamond out of every 14,000+ IBO's, and how come 2 out of every 3 IBO's quit every year? Is it that hard to work it to diamond? Are people this lazy? Or is there another, more deceptive answer?
Last, there is no tool contract. It's all a gentleman's agreement and controlled by just a few kingpins. Go to mlmsurvivor.com (Ruth Carter's site where you can buy her book) and look at some of the lawsuits filed by IBO's. They aren't suing AmQuix, but are suing kingpins because they were cut out from receiving their tool monies!
Check this out this new CD by Puryear...
WW156CD Pro-sumer to Diamond in Two Years—Ron Puryear
When is the last time WWDB put out a 2 year diamond?
You People are so sad. ever hear of the 80 20 law. you will never find an excuse for Lazyness, ignorance, and stupidity!! Enjoy your life being one of the 98% that are dead, broke, still working or bumming off your familes when your 65.
Well DOrothy and all others.
Having seen the world, is enough for me to know that "you will become like those you hang with", there is nothing wrong with the 20/20 plan if that is what you desire, it requires work and has change.
The "Dream" that most have when joining the the 2-5 year plan is going to require work and then, like a stock broker or doctor, if you want to maintain a lifestyle of a millionaire, there is work. If you want to fly off to Bornia and live on $100/year, stop working.
a "dream" has a passion, most of the time it changes after achieving and living it for a few years, we re-evaluate our lives.
I came to the "Dream" after having retired, I knew that those in WWDB were better to be around than those who owe on their mortgage and the second and the $20,000 in plastic debt- being as fake as the plastic.
It all boils down to "faith" that you are being led somewhere better than you were before.
Then again, there are Millions who would rather sit in front of their Television and waste their life on someone elses dream of the freedoms wealth can offer. (that is not saying entertainment is bad but most are glutens, they need too much)
Being debt free (including the mortgage), not worrying about money allows all kinds of freedoms.
Yes, the diamonds also make money from the books and cd's like everyone else in the "training business." I think they are offering people an option, what are you offering others, aside from criticism?
Just a thought.
This message is for CK and all those dream stealers out there. I believe everyone has the right to make their own decisions. Losers watch others make a decision that will impact their lives and then try to discourage them to quit, oh, they tell them, get your money back. I am sure u are so proud that you made ur girlfriend quit the business but the fact is that you and your girlfriend will always be swimming in the sea of mediocrity, of average losers that fill this earth and have nothing to contribute but breathe. There was never an award given for a critic only for the winners such as those that make up the quixtar community. People who are willing to get out there and work hard despite the negatives from losers like you. Protect your dreams like your life. That is what I did when my wife told me that I should quit, but today she is glad I stayed in the business. Some of the biggest dream stealers are people who are closest to as such as CK stole his girlfriends dream, and I pity people like Dorothy who listen to the voice of losers with no dream at all!!
Hmp. I dont see the problem with being an IBO or with Quixtar. I find it stupid that when people hear "Quixtar" they go sour. They blame Quixtar. How can you blame Quixtar if all it did was register you and provide you with the distribution for the products? Blame your upline.
Im an IBO, i have clients and prosumers. They like the products, yet before i showed them the products they were iffy about quixtar/amway.
My opinion, you like the products? Cool,buy them.
You want to save money and possibly earn monthly rebates?Cool, be a prosumer
You want to sell some of the products? Cool, be a prosumer.
You want to build a business? Prove your worth. I dont want to drag people into this. Cuz i know that if they fail, i'll look bad, and theyll go complain about this business. Part of building a business is changing your attitude and your point-of-view.
Before i wanted to be a pro-skater. I bought my deck,wheels,bearings,etc. I subscribed to skater mags. I have some of the skate videos. I hang out with skaters/BMX'ers and even made our own video. Hell, i even have the Autobiography (with signiture) of Tony Hawk
Then i gave that up and decided to be a guitarist in a band. Same thing, i changed my attitude and found different friends. I ended up in a band. But we stopped.(i still play guitar/drums)
Fast-foward..
Now im building a business, im subscribed to business mags and yet still be subscribed to MaximumPC. Big difference? Not really.
One of my friends didnt believe how easy sellings most of these products are. If anyone has ever heard of the term Prosumer or even read the book by Bill Quain, it is SO true. And when i gave her some samples from NAO and Artistry ,people were commenting on how nice it looked and she just went through her normal routine. She told me all that, and i just pointed out to her, that she has just "sold" the products..she just didnt say anything.
We are walking, talking stupid advertisements. Everytime we talk about a product, we promote (1)The brand and (2)The store where you bought it. DUH.
You can say i do this business all day. But actually, i just spend max of 1-2 hour solely on this business (mainly for checking voicemail and counselling). My prosumers/clients/ibos are people i see along my daily routine. Neighbours,mall,work,school. If they arent, they come by my house or mall. Oyeah, i have a laptop, i can do this business where ever i want. EVEN on the bus/train.
You have a problem buying tools? Then dont. My dad have these "tools" except he bought them from bookstores during his time. Now he's one of the managers for Adidas. Nowadays, i'm sure you can find half of these WWDBtools from your local bookstore, library, amazon.com(LOL), or ebay. And ive checked, and the prices are almost equal. If your really THAT cheap, borrow your upline's. The books/cds are just the compiled list of preferred books.
PS: i still listen to my music. i still play guitar, play videogames, watch movies (im gonna watch Super Ex-GF next week with my gf =p!). I've only lost the friends that were very negative and were just leeching off me.
Last note: Why isnt Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the book list? I wanted to buy it but its not there. So i bought it from chapters..its a great book.
Christian
Studying for my BTech AND aiming for DoubleEagle
I live how i want to live, so screw everyone else
I just read what i wrote. Just want to clarify. My dads not an IBO or a Prosumer. Infact, he didnt want me to do this. But after i started paying some of the rent, he just egged me on and on. I also realized that i should have listened to my dad about reading some of his books earlier. I was very young back then and thought reading those kinda books were..uncool...
Lastly, ive been posting this to whatever forum/blog i land in, but if anyone have any idea when the following will be out please tell =)
>Undergrads Season 2 DVD (i heard season 2 was done..i didnt know it was aired)
>The new volume for "The Last Man on Earth"..not the issues but the volume.
>Blue DS Lite. I heard its only available in japan, maybe i heard wrong
Guys, let me tell you that you are all very very wrong. I am 16 years old and already almost Eagle quailification. I have my legs, I need to get their PV up. You said you can't stay driven for that long? Then you were never really driven. I have a dream...a CLEAR image in my mind and I'm not letting go till I have it. I have met Brad Wolgomot and the Duncans and the Eatons and the Folios...You want a dream life? This is how to do it. Yes, you are really really free. I am going to be Diamond by the time I turn 18{we found a legal loop hole that helps me} and I will never have to work a day in my life and still have all my dreams come true and still be helping hundreds of thousands of people, directly and indirectly. Falling out of Diamond Qualification doesn't mean the business is a failure, it means someone below you quit. I've been exposed to this business since I was 12 years old and there are two things I've learned
1}where 1 person lets you down or says no, 6 more will immediately take his place
2}If you fail in the business, it's not because the business is a failure. It's not because there's anything wrong with the business. It's because you aren't doing what you should be.
And now all of you that didn't have the dream or the motivation are blaming it on the business? How pathetic. I suggest you all take a hard look in the mirror at yourselves because I would bet this isn't the first thing you've flaked out on and it won't be the last. I'm 16 and I'm making it. What's your excuse?
Side note from my last post:
You people in the business that are standing up for Quixtar and WWDB and aren't letting these pathetic mediocrity driven people steal your dreams: I applaud you to the utmost of my ability. That is awesome. I read a quote that says "Mediocrity thrives on Standardization" We are above the standard. We always will be as long as NO ONE ever takes our dreams away! You rock...I'll see you at Diamond Club!
you guys need to realize the facts. We're TOO BIG now for you guys to be sayin crap like this. Microsoft and IBM back Quixtar up, what more do you need. Even if i had to work 25 / 40 hours a week for 10 years to make a residual, on going income of $250,000 i would. NOT because of the money, but because of the lives that i can help change and impact.....
I feel sorry for you guys!! Get your facts straight!
The TOOL BUSINESS... IN WORLWIDE DREAMBUILDERS THEY TELL YOU THAT YOU NEED TO BE CORE to be SUCCESSFUL. CORE is 9 steps. 2 of the 9 steps (being on Communikate and being a premium member) are financial commitments that the upline big pins make money from. So basically they are saying that if you pay money out of your pocket you are being core and you will succeed. What a deceptive practice... THE FTC needs to look to see if this is a bad business practice. Premier membership is $50 and CommuniKate is around $32... These are items that the upline big pins make money off of.. and these are items that they tell you that you need to have to be successful...
Wake Up Folks on the "Tool Business" objection to this business. I have been a Platinum IBO for 4 years consistently and yes there is tool income but it is nothing compared to the bonus checks on creating product volume. The math does not add up.
Everyone brings up these different views and opinions about this business. However, let me ask you all one thing do you have anything better, does your job or business offer the things that this business does. Some of the things are true and some are not, but the point is this business is better than anything that any of you can offer and you all know it. Whether in business or life a negative outlook on anything is never right.
Hello all,
I spent 3 years in WWDB and did reasonably well, I was a 4000 and on my way to direct at 23 years old, so I know a thing or two about this topic.
I have a hard time saying anything bad about WWDB or especially Amway, since through this organization I came to faith in Christ and was taught how to dream and set goals.
At the time, I left due to realizing that Amway was not the only business in the world I could earn residual income, which is what I heard many times from the stages of major functions.
It went something like this: "Unless you're a top recording artist like the Rolling Stones or Madonna, you can forget about residual income."
That's not exact but close enough to get the general idea.
That and the heavy burden of the system(endless meetings and functions, tapes, books, etc)eventually wore me out.
Unlike some people, I am not motivated by motivational speakers or functions. Too much like a show for my tastes, but I know it works for others so to each their own.
I found out after leaving that WWDB makes buckets of money on the system, if I had known that when I was in the business I would've left immediately because I was never told of this.
As a 4000, I was told that in some areas the system is profitable with respect to functions, but that WWDB uses that profit to fund burgeoning areas with functions.
Now I know different and am appauled that these men I once held in such high esteem find it necessary to fleece their own sheep, as if they aren't making enough through the business alone.
I have benefited from Amway for 30 years. As a teenager, my parents were in Amway and I read all the books on their recommended list - and it changed my life in a dramatic way! "The Magic of Thinking Big" book, and "How to Win Friends and Influence People" books were two that inspired me to think beyond my small world. And "Hung by the Tongue" taught me to season my speech with positive language that only encourages. Maybe you haven't read that one...
Now, as an IBO directly under the Puryear's, I see that all the information that WWDB attempts to share is absolutely GREAT. I thought it was cool that after the Puryear's founded Worldwide DreamBuilders, they gave the ownership of it over to ANYONE who will hit the Diamond level, instead of hoarding the ownership themselves. Why not shoot for that goal and be one of the leaders instead of wallowing in contempt?
One of the many ways Amway helps us:
With high gas prices, it has been a godsend for our family of 6 to not have to drive 1 1/2 hours into town for shopping! We are helping other families save $$$ too!
And therein layeth the conundrum.
"Where's the beef?'' I'll kill myself for 10 years for 10 hours a night to make 100K/year- kinda looks like an inflated 40-40 plan, but not as good...
Thanks for the message, Dorothy. Let me know if I can help. Deprogramming from the lies can be hard, but as Brad says, "the truth shall set you free!"
I'm free.
Posted by: Keith Sr. | March 12, 2005 8:19 AM