« Where'd It Go? | Main | QBlog's Farcical Help Desk - 16 »
March 10, 2005
No Doubt
By David Robison in March of Perceptions
I decided to order business cards today.
I ordered them from one of Quixtar's Partner Stores, The Complete Printshop (BTW, in regards to Monday's Post at QuixtarBlog; The Complete Printshop has a customized page for IBO visits with Quixtar-specific products. I was unable to find their public site outside of Quixtar. I'm not sure what the arrangement is).
Where was I? Oh yeah, business cards.
Now, I'm sure you have seen countless IBO business cards. The one indistinguishable trait is that you usually can't tell what the heck the business card is about.
They usually have a business name, the contact person is always President (even if it isn't a corporation) and they say clever things like Private Franchising Consultant, E-Commerce Marketing Strategist or some other vague thing.
This all goes to the whole problem of the Mysterious Meeting or Curiosity Approach.
I use a different approach. The Straight-Forward Approach.
This doesn't involve word games, or stalking someone at a bookstore.
It's pretty simple, really.
When I meet someone, and they ask me what I do for a living; I tell them.
"Dave, what do you do for a living?"
"I'm a partner in a home renovation business, but I really want to be a comic. I also have a Direct Sales/Multilevel Marketing Business.
Now, if that satisfies them. Cool. They ain't interested in what I do.
If they say, "Oh really? MLM? Hmmmmm, what company are you with?"
I do something really different. I TELL THEM!
"I operate a Quixtar-affiliated Independent Business. I use virtual communities to build an organization of other Quixtar Independent Business Owners and we market products via websites and personal contact." Or something to that effect, depends on how formal I am feeling that day.
If they say, "hmmm, that ain't for me." or "really? that's interesting...I have a hangnail that's giving me some problems."
Then, guess what?
I console with them about hangnails, and don't try to sell them!
It doesn't mean they hate me. It doesn't mean they are losers. It doesn't mean they aren't interested in me, personally.
It just means they got the answer. And they aren't curious anymore.
If they say, "Really? Tell me, does that work for you?" or "I have heard some good things and bad things about that."
Then, they might want to know more, and they might be willing to hear more and I proceed from there.
Okay, back to those business cards.
The cards will have my company name, Robison and Associates (I've used that name for years), my name, address, phone number and something I am pretty proud of — The Quixtar logo and name. The Quixtar website address, my IBO number and of course my personal favorite, the web address to On the Road with Dave.
And right under Robison and Associates will be the line,
"QUIXTAR-affiliated Independent Business Owner (IBO)"
There shouldn't be any doubt as to what business I am in; and I don't want any.
The "March of Perceptions" is a special Quixtar BLOG project featuring the perceptions of four guest bloggers during the month of March.
Comments
Another home run Dave. I 'lauds' ur approach. Ppl using the mysterious meetings etc. aren't comfortable with what they are in (I wasn't!).
Hey Roger,
They are full color. They were around 50 bucks. And before you say anything about the cost compared to local printers, I chose this option because the Quixtar logos provided are pre-approved. I could have got permission to use the logo and reprinted at a local printer, who would have charged a few dollars more to use "my" artwork.
But, I chose this route for now.
I paid about 500 dollars for my business cards, stationery, and logo development when I operated my video production company. (won an American Ad Federation award for it, I might add)
500 cards at least right? if so not a bad price for full color with "custom" artwork.
I know that you got them straight through Q and not a "tools" supplier, so I'm sure there was some effort to keep the price legit. haha
Roger
Dave:
I gotta respect your direct approach.
How do you respond when they say "Isn't that Amway?"
Things get gray there. I am interested in your reply.
Thanks.
Well Dave, u r the only IBO out of 'millions' who earned respect from our df :)
So it's official. Any IBO who is respected by df is doing a business. Rest are bot. Easy eh!
Howdy df,
I laugh, cause I expect the question. And I say "technically, no..but yeah Quixtar is what used to be called Amway.
And I give them the explanation. Amway is now overseas in Europe and Asia, and Quixtar is in the United States. Quixtar can be done online and Amway is still focused mainly offline, with some European branches having online access. But the core products are the same as they might have heard about in the past.
Half the time, most will say, Okay, cause my mom used to have a bottle of LOC somewhere in the house, or a similar story.
Yesterday, I was installing a patio door for a client, when I "eyed" a Dish Drops dispenser. I asked the client about it.
He said, Are you in that? I said yeah I'm a Quixtar rep. He replied, "Yeah I lost my ass in Amway, that bottle is something left over that we put something else in."
The best thing to do is acknowledge their questions and concerns and be truthful and honest.
If you aren't honest upfront, and respect their questions, then you can't expect respect in turn.
Hey, lets not get crazy here....
Just because Dave hasn't been CALLED an 'ambot' yet, doesn't mean that I don't think he IS STILL an ambot.
Dave, how do you explain the relations among Alticor, Amway and Quixtar, when you deal with a more informed prospect?
df,
I don't quote the exact dates and history of the corporation filings as Lawdawg does so eloquently at his blog.
But to a more informed prospect, I tell them that Amway basically reorganized and became 5 separate companies legally speaking. Alticor is now the parent company. Amway and Quixtar are the marketing branches. Selling the same basic products under the same basic compensation plan, with some key market differences. Access Business Group is the manufacturing arm, and Pixiss is kind of an R&D subsidiary.
Personally, I would have preferred something simple like AmwayOnline.com.
and regarding calling me an "ambot", I really prefer "commie pinko liberal", but hey that's just me.
:-))) That last one is hilarious! :-)
See? Not all IBOs suffer from Compassionate Zombie-ism, do they? Never in my life, to this very minute, have I come across an IBO making well-intentioned fun of themselves. Very refreshing.
Dave, as much as I hate A/Q (for failing to take action after all those decades), and I've been there, done that mind you, I hope Quixtar will truly work for you big time. Really. You would deserve that for your straight-forward and entirely unusal approach. My hats off.
Dave,
This is the kind of approach I've really wanted to embrace. Because when I was approached I was told it was a "business opportunity".
Now, I've just gotten back from Louisville, Kentucky, from a function, and I think some, though not all, of my upline and even downline, are concerned.
Because I don't go in for all the motivational rah-rahs. I don't need it. And I certainly don't need a church service. I have immense faith, which I will not intermingle with this business.
Which goes back to how I view it. Business. I suppose talking about one's warm fuzzies develops a stronger community, but I'm here for a business. I know sales. I know marketing.
I am here for the bottom line.
It is refreshing to hear you, here and on your personal blog, saying "You don't have to be creepy. You don't have to be shady."
Because every now and then... that's how I've felt.
Anyhow, any more words of wisdom, please keep them coming. The upline is offering me guidance toward being like everyone else. You seem like you could offer guidance on how to develop a business as myself.
Honorably.
(And by the way, I'm in the arts as well, I'm a screenwriter)
--Josh
Josh,
Welcome to the jungle. Take advice from Dave, even some of the hardest critics here will admit that he is trying to do right by all, and he is focused on the business...not the "business"
Regards,
Roger
If every IBO ran their business like David, the only complaint I'd have about AmQuix would be price related. But I probably wouldn't say too much because I do believe that there is a market for AmQuix products. It's just not for me.
Dave, you're an ambot.
There, it is said, it is over.
KinduvaletdownIknow.
Let's get back to things...
The fact that you don't relate Quixtar to Amway is still somwhat decieving. The two are sister companies operating under a very similar business model.
You should call in 'Amwayonline' and see what kind of reaction you would get. Try it at the mall this weekend.
Hey df,
I thought I was relating the two, when I say same compensation plan same basic products.
My question to you is what exactly would I be doing at the mall talking about an amwayonline?
I don't have a kiosk at the mall. Nor do I own a storefront. If I'm at the mall, I'm there to shop...but I really don't like the mall, unless I'm at Suncoast buying a movie.
Howdy df (again)
I know your "mall" comment was probably aimed at other IBOs, but you might not be aware of the fact that I don't "prospect" people at malls.
well thanks to you and an event that happened to me a few days ago, I just finished an entry at my blog about prospecting that might let you know my views on the whole subject.
Read about here:
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/03/no_doubt.php#comments
So, I revise/restate my comments:
The fact that you don't relate Quixtar to Amway is still somwhat decieving.
The two are sister companies operating under a very similar business model.
You should call in 'Amwayonline' and see what kind of reaction you would get. Try it at during your next salespitch
Well, sure enough.
I discussed your approach with my upline.
And I was told pretty emphatically that crosslining would hurt my business ten times more than it would help it, and that if I were to break from the patterns of my line of sponsorship I would be setting a bad example, or a confusing one, for my downline.
Pretty much was made clear that the gentleman who got me involved in the business thought it would have a negative impact on my business to eschew the curiosity approach in favor of a more straightforward one.
He even recommended I might not need business cards. And really the only value of having a business card is for my personal self esteem.
I was gotten into this business by someone I've known for a few years, and I knew him to be doing rather well at this. He waited until I was about to have my first child to approach me. I have nothing to rob, and all of these things do lead me to trust him.
But at the same time, I personally feel that I would like business cards. And I would like them to say Quixtar.
Of course, then he said that saying I was with Quixtar was almost the most dishonest thing I could do, right off the bat, because people have preconceived notions, and they'll think they know what I'm talking about. So telling them the name Quixtar before telling them the business proposal is sort of deceptive, and unfair to them, because their assumptions can get in their way.
What of these arguments my upline made? Will I be less successful if I have these cards?
He ended by saying that our triple diamond does this a certain way, and he's a triple diamond. Why would I want to do things another way?
I suppose it was coming down to him saying "Hey don't do that."
Just looking for a compass here. There seem to be a few available. Just wondering where true north is.
--Josh
I'd like to venture further that last night I indulged in a Chimay Trapiste and a Delirium Tremens, two very fine beers which I probably can't afford which is sad as they are only ten dollars apiece.
After doing so, I bopped over to a local bar, where a friend was having a birthday party.
There, I ran, stumbled (they're high alcohol content, those beers), eh, into my downline...
Wait.
I'm sorry. Got confused. See, I remember when he was my close friend.
Anyhow, I broke the big bad rule, and I spread my poison. I told him "Hey. This guy on the internet, read him, this Dave Robison guy. He's talking about the straightforward approach. I'm feeling odd about this cloak and dagger nonsense.
I want to be proud of what I'm associated with... I was told not to tell you this."
And he said
"You shaved your beard! Wait... you did that for the play we're in and not the business, right?"
"Yeah. But it did start to get to me that they were looking at my beard like a hurdle."
and he says "Well, hey, come here...
I tell people I'm in Quixtar.... I don't care. It's what I'm in. We're gonna do this, the two of us. We don't have to feel bad for still being us."
Why should this conversation have to occur.
--Josh
Hey Josh,
First...crosslining is a rule that deals with product purchase. Not getting advice.
You can get advice anywhere. Other books, magazine articles on business, the internet, etc.
Your "true north" is internal, it's how you feel about something. Would purchasing business cards upset or go against your values and beliefs about business or dealing with people? Do you feel it's deceptive? That's your true north.
If you tell someone your are a Quixtar IBO, are you prepared to overcome their preconcieved notions, as your sponsor said?
In other words, are you sold on the Quixtar model and prepared to market it? If so, your personal honesty, integrity, and ethics will "sell" your brand.
I'm not advocating NOT listening to your sponsor; I'm sure he has value, or else you would not trust him so far.
But if you trust him... he should trust you to make decisions for YOUR business, and be there to help you despite any decision you make, as long as you are within the rules of Quixtar..not just the "upline's" rules.
I have nothing to gain by giving you advice, no tape to sell, no PV to earn.
And as always I'm available by email.
Josh,
I'll also add that there's a benefit/loss issue you should resolve for yourself.
What is the benefit, or gain, of being upfront and candid about every aspect of your business, even if there's a great possibility that such candor will "scare" off the prospect?
Well, you may gain respect for being so honest and possibly some business.
What might you lose for not being candid about your business?
Well, you might lose their respect and even receive their anger and mistrust. Bad news for business. Also, you leave that person with the feeling that the business is hiding something.
It's just common sense from where I sit. Most of all, what will help you sleep better at night? Being upfront or hiding?
Have you ever been in a situation where you felt like the only one without the waxy coating over their eyes?
Have you ever been politely dismissed out of hand for an interest in detail, finer points, specifics, nuts and bolts, or doubts?
You know who you are. The trouble isn't that. The trouble is that you feel completely alone in this.
You two, both of you, have offered me something I can't smile enough about...
A place to hang my hat where I know the floor is level. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a funhouse where the guy three feet away looks like a midget.
Know what I mean?
Your responses have been very helpful.
I know who I am, who I want to be. I know how I want to run my business. They spend a lot of time telling me "this is your business! treat it like your business!" Yet when I say "This is how I would prefer to do this, and I'm still within the guidelines here."
I get frowns. It's the oddest thing.
Funny how the person who saves the day the most is the one who shows up and says "Oh, hi. Yeah... You can handle this. You've got it. Just know who you are."
I got into this business because I wanted to do an honorable thing for my family. Not because I want a rolls royce. Not because the word DIAMOND gives my brain pretty pictures. But because I'm having a daughter.
And I don't want her to look at me like I looked at my mother. With pity. Because my mother wanted to be a journalist, and ended up slicing meat in a food lion with carpal tunnel syndrome.
I want my daughter to grow up around my passion, which is film. And then one day she'll say
"Dad had nothing. Nothing but talent. Focus. Drive. And that was enough."
This isn't my motivational rah-rah for the business. I still work at my, you know... j-o-b. (ack. how can you espouse so much quasichristianity when you're essentially saying "Hey! Screw Work!")
This is me saying, I want a business to succeed. And if there's a way. I'm the guy. And I get my good and propers then I jump ship and do what I got into this for.
Thanks, you two. Sorry if I get windy.
Glad to have found a couple spots on the web where I can feel at home.
--Josh
By the by, I think even more grateful for all of you here than myself is my wife.
And I think that may be some sort of statement on true commitment to family. Somehow. Hah.
She won't drink the XS. She calls it my cult's particular kool-aid.
--Josh
Josh:
Before your skin metallizes, I suggest you break away from the Ambot clan and keep your gears lubed with delicious brew!
Sometimes, those moments of clarity you get after a few pops, they're the real deal.
If that internall compus of yours is spinning, take a break and let it recalibrate. Your business associates, if they REALLY want you to do well, should understand.
If they don't understand, then it should be painfully obvious that they don't care about you as a person/partner; rather, they see you as just another brick in the pyramid.
Take a break. Have a beer. See what happens.....good luck.
Josh- So little to say, so much time to say it.
Wait, reverse that...
I'm with df. Whether you drink or not, don't succumb to the mindless duplication crap. Dave is probably (and sadly) the sanest distributor you'll ever hear from. Re-read what you wrote, what you said that they told you. The most egregious statement from your upline was
"Of course, then he said that saying I was with Quixtar was almost the most dishonest thing I could do, right off the bat, because people have preconceived notions, and they'll think they know what I'm talking about. So telling them the name Quixtar before telling them the business proposal is sort of deceptive, and unfair to them, because their assumptions can get in their way.""
In short, this is upline-serving crap. Yeah, it might get some butts into seats at an open, but I can guarantee through personal experience that you will NEVER feel good about it.
Because it's WRONG.
It's the wrong thing to do. I believe that it is also what ruined the Amway name, forcing the change to Alticor/Quixtar...to whatever will be next. Because the same bad actions that took 40 years with Amway are occuring with Quixtar in the first 6 years. Mathematically plotted out, they will have to change the name again in a year, then a couple of months, then days- hell, the company will post a new name every hour in less than 2 years :-)
Just don't tell the prospect what it is!
Keith
Dave said:
"First...crosslining is a rule that deals with product purchase. Not getting advice."
That's not what WWDB teaches. Crosslining is 'associating with those not in your direct line of sponsorship - i.e. upline/downline'. By association, it was explained that you should NEVER, EVER discuss your business with anyone who is not in your direct line of sponsorship because you may wonder why so & so is being told to do things one way, and you're being told to do things another. In fact, we were chastised for having lunch at a function with someone not in our direct line. We were actually asked what we discussed, and why we thought that was ok. Your direct UPLINE knows your business, and is the ONLY ONE you should listen to about business advice (or upline Diamond). So maybe crosslining has different definitions in different organizations?
Well Disenchanted,
I'm not directing this at you, but ya know what? I don't really care what WW"BS" says.
I talking about the real rules, not those made up by an organization that should have no power over an IBO. An organization that should be there to help not hinder a new IBO.
And another thing, I only recognize official Lines of Sponsorship...this silly LOA, line of affiliation stuff is hogwash. It's not in the Rules Compendium, and it shouldn't be advocated.
I have no tapes to sell, all I want is for every IBO to succeed to whatever level they want and do it ethically.
I'll give advice to any IBO that asks it, simply for the reward that maybe they will do something to better "the business" for all concerned, including their clients.
And if they achieve Platinum on my advice and I don't see a dime from it, then so be it. I still did my duty.
I've been an IBO since May 1999. I've shown numerous plans and gone to all of the monthly BDS and seminars and purchased tools, books, etc. Since having my daughter in 2003, I've been questioning the purchase of tools. I'm spending tonnes of money and all the tapes seem to say the same things over and over again. I told my upline that I don't want to purchase the tools anymore because I have a big box of them that haven't been listened to yet and it'll last me for a while. "Oh, but it won't be the most current information" Bull!! It's all the same. There's no "new" information. It's all the same crap. tapes, books, seminars. etc. etc. Where's the real training? Is there any training that's really needed? Shouldn't I just be trained on the actual Rules of the business? I've recently sent an e-mail to Quixtar regarding the 70% rule. I have yet to get a reply. I'm wondering if this rule applies to me? I've been told by my True North upline that it doesn't apply to us. How can that be?
Oh, and I chose not to go to Winter Conference this year due to the renovations happening at my home. Well.....I got the "it'll set you back financially" crap. My upline made me feel terrible. Is that right? Ever since then, I've been seriously considering quitting the business. tapes, books, seminars have done nothing for me. I haven't signed up any ibo's. shown numerous plans. I need to speak with someone. I'm sure my husband wants to continue with the business so I don't know how to tell him that I want to quit. Any comments?
Are these full color or black and white cards?
how did the pricing compare to local business card printer in your area?
I know business cards can be gotten really cheap in the Detroit area, or you can even print your own like we did at OfficeMax when they have a sale on color laser copies.
Roger
Posted by: Roger, Husband of a Team Brainwashee | March 10, 2005 2:55 PM