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March 14, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 35
By QBlog in Reader Mail
This week's Reader Mail presents a very interesting question.
name: Laura
date: March 10, 2005
message: I was wanting to ask you a question. My younger brother has been in Quixtar for a year and my parents are trying to help him to see its cult-like ways. He told my parents that it was ILLEGAL for him to divulge that he is losing money to his recruits. Do you know if this is true?
Wonderful. So it's legal to tell everyone that Diamonds are filthy, stinking rich and that buying tapes and going to meetings is the way to do the same but it's illegal to tell anyone that you might be losing money?
I'm flabbergasted. Laura presents an honest question about something she was told by her IBO brother. To answer the question, no, it isn't true. I'm not a lawyer and I don't claim to be all that bright but common sense demands that there is no way it's illegal for an IBO to be honest about his business. At least not in the U.S.
Now, I have a question to no one in particular. Is the statement from Laura's brother the exception or the rule among Quixtar IBOs?
Comments
I've been an IBO for a couple months. So far, no sacrificial goats, no naked dancing by the firelight. Admittedly, there could be alot of things I am not yet privy to, but the ethics booklet they gave sonds like pretty sraightforward stuff..no false represenations, no lying, no market flooding. The only thing which makes me uncomfortable is the unspoken rule about not mentioning Amway. This isn't rocket science..if an IBO uses or sells enough stuff to reach 100 PV per month, they gat paid a pittance for it. If they sign up someone else who also uses or sells 100PV, they paid two pittances.(Is that a word?) Where the goofy, dreamer stuff comes in is that if you tell two freinds, and they tell two freinds, ad nauseum, all the pittances make you rich. I'll tell you exactly how much your brother makes; three and a half bucks for every 100 PV. And you can't "lose", but you can grossly overpay for some stuff, if you don't shop smart. If any of you has any pointy questions, I'll do my best to answer them from an 'insider' point of view.
Well, if the brother is telling recruits he's making money while the truth is he is losing money, then he is making false income claims. Technically illegal but tough to prove because I'm sure the brother isn't using specific numbers but just talking in generalities and innuendos, which is the way the motivational organizations teach.
And a question for Gary. Are you told that you have to retail (sell to members/clients) or are you told just to buy from yourself and teach others to do so. If it is the latter, have you ever wondered how anyone makes money in the scheme? The buy from yourself system works just like a Ponzi scheme in terms of money dynamics, with the difference being there are products being bought instead of money invested. Take a look here http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=381 for further explanation.
I second DMM- clearly, if the upline is not divulging the retailing requirements to qualify for bonuses and the 70% rule, then in the eyes of the FTC it is probably an (illegal) wholesale buying club.
As far as animal sacrifices and naked dancing, most cults don't operate in that fashion. It starts with rationality and the cultic elements are slowly integrated so that they become the norm. Depending on one's level of involvement, many of the more egregious examples may not be apparent for quite a long time- after all, you don't feed meat to a baby (Brad Duncan)
I got this from the official quixtar rules: An Ibo:
8.3.5. May use only those earnings and/or bonus representations based on their own personal experiences, provided that they at the same time disclose the average profits, earnings, and sales figures and percentages as published from time to time by the Corporation.
"after all, you don't feed meat to a baby (Brad Duncan)"
Posted by: Keith Sr.
Hmmm, they always saud "steak" to us....
Roger
Roger- it probably was steak... kind of reminds me of the old bumper sticker I saw:
"Eat sh-t- 50 billion flies can't be wrong"
Gary,
As a former IBO, I can safely say that you can most definitely lose money in this business. Once you get wrapped up in the tools, meetings and functions (which your upline specifcally tells you is the only way to not only grow your business, but to monitor its growth), you're spending hundreds of dollars on repetitive hype that has very little business-related value.
Since you've only been in a couple of months, I understand why you feel the way you do. But sooner or later, you will hear that "this next function will be the one that jumpstarts your business". And you'll go, and maybe you'll grow. Then you'll hear the same thing about the next function, and you'll pay your money, and go hear the EXACT things that you heard at all of the previous functions and on tape. It NEVER changes, but you're pressured into attending all of these things. The tapes are usually made AT the functions, so why do you need to attend if you're just going to get it on tape/CD 2 months later anyway?? See how the downward spiral begins?
The statement from Laura's brother is the exception. At least, I've never heard it before.
I've never heard anyone say it was "illegal" to tell anyone you're losing money..
It's certainly not illegal for an IBO to divulge that they are losing money in their quixtar business, but in the eyes of the kingpins, it's definitely incomprehensible.
I appreciate all of your insights. I figured that this was the answer. Thanks QBlog for posting this.
In dealing with someone who is in this and is buying the lies, what is the best way that you've found to get them out? Do you keep confronting them with the information you find? Do you just leave them alone and pray they'll get out?
I know the cult tapes and books and his upline are bombarding him with their crap every day....I felt like I should try to fight back but its getting me know where. This is one of the best sites out there though for gathering information! Thanks again.
I'm just surprised that there was ever any concerns at all about the legalities of what IBO's do.
While sadly misdirected, at least it's something. Anybody who would believe you can't disclose your own business losses is, sorry Laura, a twit. It just gos to show, once again, that this is a business by name only.
I think this is the exception. My condolences to your family Laura. If your brother believes that crap, he's in deep. If he is being dishonest, that's pretty lame.
In any event, every initial IBO that is core and just starting is losing money. How the hell could it be illegal to disclose that?
Maybe it's illegal in the magical land of AmQuix fairies.
But not here on earth.
Laura -
Confrontation is seldom the answer. The key is asking questions and getting him to THINK.
I would suggest that you log in to the QBlog Forum and have a look around. Use the search feature. Try different search terms. We've discussed possible approaches, and you might find that your situation starts a new examination of the possibilities. The link to the Forum is at the top of this page.
The cute way of welcoming you to this site would be to say, "We're sorry you're here." (The presence of most people on this site reflects an involvement of some kind with Amway/Quixtar. For most, that is not a good thing.) But we do, indeed, welcome you.
PW
PW,
I suggested this same thing to Laura when she emailed me. Asking questions in order to provoke some critical thinking is great, but I think that sometimes confrontation is a forgone conclusion at first. This is how I had to go about things with my wife, and over time we began to communicate about this better as I asked questions. She's now pretty skeptical about the whole thing (although still involved). But we wouldn't have gotten to that point without that initial confrontation.
I could be wrong here but Laura's brother won't start questioning things without that initial argument/confrontation/intervention, whatever you want to call it.
Of course, I'm only basing this on my own experience.
You know Rule 8.3.5 :o)
Laura -
Have him do the 'logic' test. He will respond better if/when he figures it out himself. Three of the things that woke me up were 1) paid attention to my upline's (Diamond & Emerald) schedules, compared that to THEIR OWN definition of freedom (didn't even remotely line up), 2) did my own little 'price comparison' (included price, quality, shipping, fuel, convenience, qty, concentration), and 3) really listened to the tapes (not just the fluff & buff, but the CLAIMS) and compared them to what reality - again - I couldn't make the numbers work. Their math simply didn't make sense - i.e. didn't pass the logic test...
These three things prompted me to start asking questions, and when I did, the floodgate opened and the mudslide was on a course of it's own. I couldn't have stopped it if I wanted to.
Baloney.
It's not even illegal to tell people how much of a _profit_ you are making . . . provided you are honest about it.
Income claims are not the problem in MLM.
FALSE income claims are.
Posted by: lawDawg | March 14, 2005 2:36 PM