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March 7, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 34
By QBlog in Reader Mail
This week's Reader Mail brings up the "partner store" topic. Quixtar is "partnered" with many respected businesses and therefore Quixtar must be a respected business.
name: Chris
date: February 28, 2005
message: First I don't agree with you, quixtar has worked for me, and honestly its not for everyone. (like you) It takes smart and motivated people. Most people who fail lack one of those. I personally didn't think it worked at first but then I thought why are my friends making money if it didn't work and why bass pro shops and circut city partner with them if it was some kinda scam, think about it as a business owner or ceo your not gonna put your company on the line your name is the most important thing.
Circut City and co. like it spent money on lawyers to look it over carefully. The lawfirms name are at stake too. Quixtar is and has to be regisetered with the Fedral Trade Comission. They keep us from getting scamed. One problem with this type of business any IBO can personally scam anyone. -chrisPS your negetive
The FTC comment is obviously false so I won't dwell on it. However, I would like to spend a moment examining the "partner stores."
On the Web, there are different types of "partner stores" and they aren't all created equally. One method of "partner stores" on the Web is affiliates. Affiliates basically mean that you drive customers to a site and get some sort of reward for doing so. The affiliate programs have rules and guidelines but they really don't care who you are or how you do business, they just want customers.
Partner Stores
Another kind of "partner store" is the type Quixtar uses. It involves a contract, specific guidelines that each party must follow, a level of integration between backend systems and usually some type of revenue sharing. One important aspect of this style "partner store" is to note that the participating stores do not change their Web site to accommodate the partner (in this case Quixtar) but the partner changes his site to accommodate the "partner stores."
Why is that important? Well, it means that the "partner stores" have less interest in the partner (ie. Quixtar) than the partner's interest in them. I'll try to illustrate with an example.
Tour Example
Let's say you own a very popular tour guide business. As part of your day-long historic tour you decide to stop for lunch at one of several fine restaurants around town. You approach each restaurant owner and present the following offer:
If I agree to bring my tourists to your restaurant at least once a week, you will agree to give everyone a 10% discount and cut me a check for 1% of all they spend at the end of each month. Your business increases on your slowest days, you get free advertising as an "Official Partner" on all our brochures and I get an incentive to bring them. Everybody wins.
Several restaurants agree and a contract is signed. Now you've got "partner stores."
Obviously, the restaurants owners aren't all that interested in how you run your tour business. They don't want you bringing hooligans to their restaurants but beyond that, they don't care. They don't care if you tell off-color jokes on the tour bus or if you run stoplights and speed. They just want your business. However, you (as the tour guide owner) care very much about the restaurant. Because that restaurant is part of your tour you want it to be nice, serve good food and provide a quality experience for the tourists. Thus you're more interested in their business than they are in your business. Similar situation with Quixtar and its "partner stores."
When you shop at a Quixtar "partner store" you're leaving the Quixtar Web site. That Quixtar logo at the top of the page is just a frame. What tells the store that you're from Quixtar is a special URL code that identifies where you're shopping from. If you "view frame source" and open the store page (with the special Quixtar URL) in a new browser, you'll still get the same deals. (example: http://www.officemax.com/max/ solutions/nav/home.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=no& affCode=QXT &siteID=US1KYpzYJ1g&cm_mmc= quixtar*us*main*link& mid=MQ00101160774) You're leaving Quixtar (or the tour bus) and entering an entirely separate establishment. Quixtar doesn't make that a secret, that's why it can take up to 60 days to get the PV/BV on your "partner store" purchases. I just think it's important to understand exactly what's going on when you shop at a Quixtar "partner store."
The Amazon.com Example
There's a third type of partner store. Amazon.com is a great example of this type. It partners with Target and Toys 'R' Us (and others). When shopping those partner stores the customer remains within the Amazon.com Web site. The experience never changes. Additionally, the packages often arrive in Amazon.com boxes and are tracked through Amazon.com's software. So Target's products are sold directly from Amazon.com's Web site in this partnership, not their own Web site (at least not directly as it is with Quixtar). Amazon has modified its Web site to accommodate its partner stores.
Using the tour example, it would be similar to the tour company building its own restaurant, incorporating the branding of a popular local restaurant and serving food prepared by that local restaurant. The local restaurant would earn money on the food sold and benefit from brand exposure but would not be in direct control of the dining experience. That control would reside with the tour business. Therefore, the local restaurant would be much more interested in how the tour company runs its business because it has less control over the dining experience.
Make sense? I know it's confusing but I believe it's important to understand the nuances of the whole "partner store" thing. Not all partner stores are created equal. And just because a business is "partnered" with respectable businesses doesn't mean that business is also respectable.
Comments
Let me explain how retail works. Companys like Circuit City and Bass Pro Shop are just big buildings where vendors who make products like panasonic, sony, or zebco sell their product to the retailer. The retailer physically purchases the product before they put it on the shelves. If it doesn't sell, they own it. They do this, because nobody wants to go to Japan to buy a TV. The retailers get a cut of the price and makes money. They increase or decrease the shelf space based on how well it sells. That's it. In retail the vendors compete against one another to drive up quality and drive down prices.
Quixtar on the other hand, competes with retail, supposedly. They say, we can get product to consumer without the building. We'll bring the product to you. You buy over the internet and we'll ship it. By the way, they own some of the vendors who make the product, so they can claim the quality is better and charge higher prices (to pass along the pyramid to the top). There is no competition.
They also advertise other vendors product to sell to the "cult", who now thinks I can conveniently buy everything here. It doesn't matter that it costs more, I'll get a bonus point. Once again the extra cost goes to the upline.
Then they rag on Wal-Mart and the "cult" stops thinking, really I can get everything I need and then some, for the lowest prices there. That would be money in their pockets, not the upline's. That is real income, more than they will ever make at Quixtar.
On the other hand, they brag about partnering with other retailers, which means they must be legitimate. Really, the other companies just see an opportunity to get a piece of the "cult" fervor pie. It's just more money for them. It's easy to see that, if the IBO masses buy products from the Quixtar site, it's just one more source for them to advertise their products and make easy money. IBO suckers. They don't care about how the typical IBO suffers financially and has ruined their relationships with loved ones. They don't care that the price is inflated and the difference goes to the upline. This example can be adapted to any Quixtar "partnership".
The real obvious point that is laughable, is that Quixtar even makes these claims. Any truly legitmate company doesn't have to "piggyback" on others and make such claims. Proctor & Gamble doesn't say, look, look, we sell at Wal-Mart, we're partners, we're legitmate.
A true partnership is a business relationship just like a sole proprietor, corporation, LLC, or s-corp, it is registered in the states it is doing business. So where is their documentation?
As John Stossel says, "give me a break"!
Dave,
I can create a page on WAQ that when you click a link it'll take you back to your site with a big banner at the top "Sponsored by WhatAboutQuixtar"... that code is easy. The rest as far as the credit for the sale is added to the URL in such as extenstions after ? marks or in cookies that are set by the Quixtar link to the new site.
Go look at google URL after you do a search, note all the parameters passed in the URL such as the search words and such... same theory.
I have a "partnership" with several retailers on one of my sites.... I send them business, they give me a small percentage of each sale.
Jonas' Dad,
I commend you on that excellent explanation. I walk into Wally-world and buy a "Rand-McNally" map book, I don't expect a sign over the door "Partnered with Rand McNally"..... it's like the idea that the local liquor store is "partnered" with "Jim Beam Distillers" just cause they sell that brand.
"Partnered" is a false statement used to imply (non-existant) credibility. I guess every company that sells anything at K-Mart is "partnered" with them....not just the "exclusive brands" like Jaclyn Smith and Martha Stewart.
Quixtar claims "legitimacy" because "why else would all these name brand companies partner with us?" Hmmm, because you are selling their product? Cause you tell them we have x thousands of people who are taught to buy from the Quixtar site only.... wouldn't you like to be on the Quixtar site?
Like all else, when analized, is a crock.
Roger
One other aspect of this that must be considered is the culpability of the partner stores.
Using the tour bus analogy, if I am a restaurant owner who has agreed to provide lunch for the tourists on the bus, I only know that the tourists arrive at my door and I provide the meal, as agreed. And I get the increased paycheck for the boost in business.
If it later turns out that the tour bus company was breaking the law, I am not responsible for knowing that they broke the law or acting on that knowledge before it is determined in court. If I am ignorant of their transgressions, then I can continue to reap the financial benefit of the relationship without culpability for their lawlessness.
Even if I know about it, I can claim I don't unless there is documentation to prove otherwise. I'm certain Quixtar's partner stores feel safe.
PW
If you go into Wal-Mart you'll notice that there is a brand of dog food, detergent, soda, etc... called SAM's brand. Wal-Mart realized they could skip the vendor, go straight to the manufacturer and have the same product made cheaper and sell it for less, and call it SAM's. Then they pass the savings to the consumer.
Now compare that scenario with Quixtar.
They the retailer, start a company called Nutrilite and X-drink, or whatever they call them. They manufacturer the product, label it with a fancy names (that's just advertising Quixtar products with cool names) and sell them to IBOs. They make claims, whether true or not, that their better quality products (how do you quantify that). Ultimately, charging extremely inflated prices, to pass money back up the pyramid to themselves.
Notice they don't sell competing products. We all know what happens when there is no competion.
Imagine if one day Wal-Mart stopped selling all name brands and just sold SAM's brand, why not it's the cheapest. Then told everybody we're doubling the price and if you "join" a club we'll give some of that money back to you. And if you get more people to join we'll give a cut of their purchase back to you, but not all. If they didn't go out of business, you would have yourself a MLM! They definately wouldn't have the revenue they now make, the backlash would be huge! So, which retail "formula" is the best and the "wave of the future"?
Not competion, I meant competition. They need spell checker on these comments.
How about his comments "It takes smart and motivated people. Most people who fail lack one of those"
HUH?
I have a high IQ(I am not bragging here) and was very motivated and I know I did more work than you did for 12 years and I did not make it.
So your saying 99% of the quixtar folks are stupid or unmotivated...
It shows your ignorance
I like the last line of the letter. "PS your negative"
Classic IBO stock answer to any criticism, with 'your' written when it should be 'you're'.
Pure class!
Hey Buzzard, you forgot an important part of that quote!! He spelled negative wrong.
"PS your negetive"
Why do so many IBO's insist on making jackasses of themselves?
Maybe Qblog should put a link to merriam-webster.com on his blog. Do you think it would help? Neither do I.
PW is right. And remember, lawyers for partner stores only get a copy of Quixtar's rules to read over. The partner store lawyers have no clue how AmQuix or IBO's actually run their respective businesses. And remember, if AmQuix and IBO's run their businesses according to the rules, they won't be breaking the law and/or running an illegal pyramid scheme.
In the end, it's not the partner stores' responsibility to enforce AmQuix's rules. It would by like the restaurant owner making sure the tour guide is running his business correctly and enforcing his own rules. It's one thing for the restaurant to ask to make sure the tour guide runs his business on the up and up, but its another for the restaurant owner to intervene on the tour guide's business.
simply put, it's the partner store's only concern that Quxtar does wha they agreed to do... send people to the store and receive a portion back of the profits from directing people there.
How they get them there... is not in the contract or their concern.... until the law is broken, then they can say.... "we didn't know anything about it" (if they didn't)
Roger
I'm curious. What is the pv/bv like on stuff purchased through the "partner stores"? Also, would it ever be possible to gain Target or Walmart as a partner store? Wouldn't that be a hoot!
Blog owner,
you are wrong and lying about quixtar's partner stores. THEY DO CHANGE THEIR WEBSITE FOR QUIXTAR! You are a moron and always will be. GET A LIFE AND QUIT LYING TO PEOPLE!
ChrisA:
He also typed "your" when the proper grammer would have been "you're" or "you are".
Not only am I a dreamstealer, I am also a stickler for proper grammar!
As I recall, the PV value was quite low when you went through a partner store, unless they were running a special or something.
Most of the time, it was cheaper to go online privately.. not via a Quixtar site. Maybe that's changed. It's been awhile since I looked.
I'm quite intrigued by tom's response. I'd be willing to wadger a dollar that he's been listening to Larry Winters. Is that true, tom?
Tom,
Whether you know it or not, you are the one lying to people if you promote the sales and marketing plan as a way to financial freedom.
I'm sure you do promote it as such, because there is absolutely no way in hell that anybody would do this to save on stuff they buy anyways, because they don't save.
Your business sucks, and based on your comment to QBlog, you suck also.
Go and suck somewhere else.
Tom,
I have never seen ANYTHING on any store's website about Quixtar ever. But if you are sure, give me a couple of stores, I'll check out their websites and look for the Quixtar connection. (Do I win a special prize if I find it?)
If being "partnered" with Quixtar is one of the things about which Quixtar brags, then I am sure that these various companies will be more than proud to put the Quixtar link big and bold on their website, correct?
Hey, chris, like how I'm not being negetive?
Hey Inquiring mind,
Walmart and target do let you become affiliates and pay 15% -30% commisions.
Set up a website and go thru their affiliate program.
Tom
Your an idiot
ex=dd
I went to the Walmart website and got on the Linkshare page. Is this what you are talking about? This isn't through Quixtar, is it? How does the affiliate program work? (It was hard to get any real information from just the site)Have you done this?
BTW, Tom, I never saw the word quixtar anywhere. I guess I don't win a prize.
My god, WTF is wrong with these IBO's? Everytime I see comments like the ones Tom has made it really makes me wonder about people in general. I hope I dont sound like an elitist, but damn, there are some really stupid people in this country and I am very thankful that I am not one of them.
David,
>> 1) How do certain "partner stores" customize their page within the Quixtar frame, to "Welcome Quixtar Customers" or offer Quixtar-specific products. On these pages; is the client "still leaving the bus"?
This can be done through the affiliate code that is passed through the URL. The store can designate the pages for the Quixtar account to issue a greeting. This would be like the restaurant writing "Welcome Tourists" on the store window or hanging up a banner. Yes, the client is "still leaving the bus."
2) What is your general feeling about MLMs and Partner Stores? I noticed Passport has initiated a Partner Store type program, after some reps of that company, downplayed the importance of partner stores at Quixtar?
I don't really have a feeling on MLMs and Partner Stores. If an MLM wants to do one, great. I think it's great that Quixtar has partner stores. I just think that many IBOs misunderstand the reality of the relationship and believe that it means Partner Store Company A fully endorses the Quixtar business. It does no such thing. My point in this post is that none of the partner or affiliate models actually mean anything but if you want to attach meaning, the Amazon.com model means much, much more than the Quixtar model in regards to approving or not approving a certain business.
To others who've said this isn't a partnership, that's not entirely correct. Quixtar's partner stores aren't the same as Wal-Mart selling Sony TVs (in most cases). A retail store can buy a product and then owns it to sell it how it chooses (yes, I know about various restrictions and the like). Sony has its money and is happy. Now the retailer must recoup his expenses and sell it at some sort of markup. The difference is that there's no contract there (YES, there are exceptions of course!). A retailer selling products is finished dealing with the manufacturer once after the initial purchse. With a partner store or affiliate, the dealing begins at the customer sale.
Actually, for major retailers buying large quantities of products from a manufacturer there is almost always a contract. It spells out shipping terms, indemnification rights, payment terms and often includes such things as guarantees of certain retail placement or retailing footage at the retailers stores, which the manufacturer gives an additional discount for.
If anyone has ever worked in a supermarket, you know exactly what I'm talking about. When you do a "reset" of a space (like an aisle) there are all sorts of guidelines about how much space and where certain products are placed. Those are often the result of contracts between the manufacturers/distributors of those products and the retailers.
Mirror sites. Most partner stores and affiliate sites are just mirror sites. Yahoo and Google shopping are full of mirror sites too. And for those who don't know, a mirror site is an exact replica of another web-site with special meta-tags to let the owner of the site know how a viewer came to look at the site in the first place.
To look at a mirror site, go to Yahoo and click on the shopping link. From there, click on the Wal-Mart link, and it should take you to www.walmart.com, with a tag in the line (http://www.walmart.com/?adid=1500000000000001428770&dest=19288) Everything after the question mark is the tag and it lets both Yahoo and Wal-Mart know that the customer came through the site through Yahoo. The site is still WalMart.com and there is nothing on this site I can't buy if I didn't go through Yahoo, just Wal-Mart and Yahoo "partnered" up, and became affiliates so that anything bought from Wal-Mart that came through Yahoo, part of the profit goes back to Yahoo for providing the customer an entrance to the online shop.
Quixtar partner stores, for the most part, are the same way. Go to Quixtar and click on a partner store and look for the tag. Remove the tag and go directly to the store's page and see what you get. Chances are, you will get the exact same or very similar home page, and you will be allowed to buy the same things for the same price without going through Quixtar.
Inquire,
Type in affiliate in google and research them.
I have not done Walmart. I am in the process of picking a few "partner" stores for my websites.
You can set up a website and have nothing but affiliates and create your own theme and stores.
Partner stores.... just a place you can buy at the same price for a pittance of PV/BV or convince friends and family to buy from where you have no control over pricing or any incentive for them to buy from the partner store except out of pity for your business.
Look here for a comparison of IBM "partner store" prices vs IBM.com
http://www.whataboutquixtar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=244
Roger
all quixtar is amway/ thats all !
it cost me money and ruined friendships.i am a successful business person, this is a pyimid, it needs to be shut down !
I have two questions.
1) How do certain "partner stores" customize their page within the Quixtar frame, to "Welcome Quixtar Customers" or offer Quixtar-specific products. On these pages; is the client "still leaving the bus"?
2) What is your general feeling about MLMs and Partner Stores? I noticed Passport has initiated a Partner Store type program, after some reps of that company, downplayed the importance of partner stores at Quixtar?
Maybe you could do a follow up post on how you feel about affiliate programs and MLM, in genral..good, bad, indifferent?
Posted by: David Robsion | March 7, 2005 3:05 PM