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February 22, 2005
DeVos Speaks - Income Claims
By QBlog in DeVos Speaks
"DeVos
Speaks," is special series that features comments made by Amway co-founder
Rich DeVos. Each DeVos quote is published without comment and includes a link
to the source material (for context) when available. This series doesn't have
a regular publication schedule but all posts are available under the Category
listing on the Archives page.
"Number Two: I will only use Amway-produced literature in the presentation of the Plan and will use only the figures Amway gives.
We have a major lawsuit going right now with an attorney general in one of the states based on people making what they say are excess claims and telling people they hardly have to work at all, telling them you can make $50,000.00 a year and you only have to work twelve hours a week.
Now, you and I both know, you know; that -- that just can't be put up with. And, therefore, I have a very simple statement to you: Don't create numbers of your own. You use the numbers and the literature we give you, and nobody else's. You don't have any tapes in your group to teach you how to present the Plan other than the one Amway has. That's what I mean by following Rule Two."
- Rich DeVos, Directly Speaking - 1983
Comments
So....every single open, they say u can make that income working 10-12 hours / week.
What are Quixtar numbers? Any body have them updated? Other than $115 / month thingy?
Quixtar number is the SA4400 only; eg $60k/year for a first time founders platinum Q-12. Of that, $8.5k are one-time only bonus and the other $5 k are the trips. Hence, $45k/year are recurring. No time frame is every given and, if I remember the compendium correctly, you're not suppose to make any time frame claim.
WWG's PFR (Private Franchise Review) is approved by Quixtar and in the PFR, the income claim is $250k for Diamond & $120k for Emerald. More precisely, it's for the Founders variety operating within WWG parameters. And yes, most people in WWG aren't aware of that fine point.
All the Diamonds speaker I heard had actually been good on that point--they did state that WWG diamonds operating within parameters are making these income. But sometime they said something I don't like--that these income are the min.
Ron Puryear put out a new tape, Finish the Race, that talk about the time requirement. The analogy he used to build the biz is the marathon. Walking is the absolute min. When you can, you jog, run, or sprint. Walking=1 plan/week (roughly 5 hours). Jogging=2 plan. Running=3-4. Sprinting=4-6. He claimed that one can go Ruby by walking & jogging only. But he also stated that nobody had ever gone Diamond without running & sprinting for 2+ years. This is based on his personal observation, so take it however you want.
And yes, the time commitment does not include product pickup, ordering, function, etc. It only account for showing the plan, followup, and the travel time for those 2.
Also, the $50k/year claim in Directly Speaking is not the platinum income claim. Remember, the tape was cut 20 years ago. I believe the platinum income claim back then was $20k/year. The $50k/year was for a Emerald and adjusted for today dollar would be $120k/year.
Jennybot:
How do you equate $50k in 1983 with $120k now?
That would be a growth rate of 4%+/year. Average GDP growth in the US has been around 3%.
Right? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Please also see the other points/questions awaiting you elsewhere.
Jennifer,
The most recent Quixtar income has a platinum earning $15,540 per year. That is quite a bit less than your WWDB private franchising review "fact" of $50,0000.
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_income.html
Q12 income is just under $33,000 per year and not the $60K you have listed.
Everyone needs to remember that standard fulfillment groups like WWDB have to pay their downline, where direct fulfillment groups get paid by Quixtar. The WWDB'ers conveniently forget to tell everyone about the money they must pay downline to exaggerate their "income". It is still a shame that when AmQuix polls distributors for they income that they do not ask for "net income reported on taxes". The average distributor income of $115/month would surely fall to a loss of $200/month.
I can't see how the PFR would be approved by Amway/Quixtar when the income claims don't correlate to any published number from the corporation.
Hey Scott,
Mind defining "average" for me? How many of those platinum/Q-12 are operating within parameters?
Care to find me a Q-12 that have 6 legs each doing 1200 PV that's not grossing $45k/year?
And where did you get that standard fulfillment org "conveniently forget" to tell everyone about the money paid downline? The WSA-4400 clearly states that downline get paid.
It's too bad people at their JOB don't include all their expenses for "building their JOB", expenses like car mileage, day care, food, continuing education. I'm sure the average JOBer would drop from $3k/month to $500/month. Nah. Scratch that. It'll probably be a net loss by looking at how rich the credit issuers are getting.
Why don't you contact Quixtar to see if the PFR is approved by them?
Hi Jennifer,
Average definition: a statistic describing the center of a distribution. It is calculated by summing all the data points and dividing the sum by the number of data points.
Care to find me a 1 legged Q12 that makes more than $16,000 per year? (I'm not sure what your question is supposed to prove) care to find me a 6 leg Platinum with 1200 PV in each leg that is reporting $45K per year or more on their taxes?
Amway reported the average Q12 in 1994-1995 grossed $62,537/year. Why did the same Q12 income drop to $39,763 in 2001?
Because most every switched to direct fulfillment. It is clear the income was exaggerated since downline bonuses was misleadingly being claimed as "income".
Jennifer - are you defining 'parameters' as the analogy Puryear gave in the tape you cited below?
Do you honestly believe, that in 5-10 hours per week (showing 1-2 plans per week), that Ruby is a realistic goal??? Unless things have changed - isn't Ruby 15,000 PV month?
Our upline Rubys didn't run & sprint for 2+ years, they drove, they flew, they cannonized themselves....they got to Emerald after over 2+ years FULL TIME by both. But I've since heard they lost 2 of their Platinum legs. I hope that isn't true. They are a nice couple. But I SAW how hard they worked. And I can tell you, it was harder than either of them had to work at their JOBS before they 'retired'. Puryear is blowing smoke up your skirt, and anyone else's who is willing to listen.
While on the subject of jobs and expenses connected with them, don't you think ppl in Quixtar have car expenses, clothes, night care (instead of day care), continuing education, travel expenses, entertainment expenses? They aren't ALL deductible you know. And most ppl who pay something for their continuing education are either a) reimbursed by their company, or b) the training is PROVIDED by their company, or c) actually learn new and usable skills.
And net income claims in WWG are exaggerated from the Eagle on up - no question. Of course 'net' is not usually discussed. But that's another issue all together.
Scott,
So, what's the income distribution of all the pin level? Better yet, what's the structure distribution of the pin level? What's a "statistical center" and what can you gleam from that? What information does the "statistical center" give you?
Average income based on pin level is like average income based on zip code--just because you live there doesn't mean you're making the money other think you should based on the zip code.
Quixtar claim isn't that "platinum" make $45k/year. Its claim is that a 6-legged IBO running 7,500 PV 12 months out of 12 months will make $45k/year. $60k/year if you count one-time bonuses & trip value.
You based your allegation that Quixtar was deceptive because of changes in average income??? Read your definition of average. Average change if the distribution change. You did read Quixtar fine print with all the income claim, didn't you? It's there on your website. The fine print on the income claim has income defined as bonus received minus bonus paid downline plus estimated retail markup. That fine print was there in 1994, as was 2001. In fact, that fine print clearly stated that downline bonuses were NOT used.
Hey, Jennybot! (I like that, "Jennybot")
Sure glad that you are sold out on A/Q. The mindsuckers have done a good job.
Step outside of your bubble for a minute, Jenny. The opportunity in Q versus time invested, the ROI, isn't very good. Why spend your time in a broken vehicle? You seem bright- have they brainwashed you, too, into the "if I don't build it now after telling everyone I was going to be rich through Amway they'll call me a loser" mentality?
RUN AWAY
I did over 5 years ago, and I've never made so much money (legitimately), I've never had so many opportunities in my life! Take the work ethic lerned in the low return A/Q vehicle and pusue ANYTHING! You will blow away your competition. No one outworks an Ambot running to Diamond! Problem is, once you get there, it ain't that great... unless you want 70% of your income coming from tools and functions income- which is NOT willable, NOT residual, and definitlely can be taken away on a whim. Eventually, it (the tools income structure) will also be found illegal. Why risk it- you need the edification?
I wish you well
Keith Sr.
Hi Jennifer,
You wrote: "So, what's the income distribution of all the pin level? Better yet, what's the structure distribution of the pin level? What's a "statistical center" and what can you gleam from that? What information does the "statistical center" give you?"
These are all good questions that the high integrity Corporation will not answer. If the Corp. does not make this information public, how do you expect me to have it? Why do you expect me to answer questions for which there is no public data? I love the Amway/Quxitar tactic of answering questions with questions. If you know so much, who about enlightening us with the answers to your own irrelevant questions?
If I calculate a 6 leg business with 100 Personal PV at 7500 PV I get a monthly income of $2,468. With the Q12 bonus I get $39,616 gross income.
I read the fine print. I doesn't clearly say what "performance bonus retained" means. Let's assume you allegation is correct, and it was net after downline payments. Why then did Q12 income drop from $62,537/year (1994-1995) to $39,763 (2001) or 36%?
Here is some more information. Platinum distributors in 1994-1995 were on standard fulfillment. In 2001 the majority of Platinum distributors were on direct fulfillment. Did the average volume of platinum distributors drop by 39% from 1995-2001, or was the downline payments removed from their "gross income"? Ifyou can explain the 36% drop in average Q12 platinum volume then we can assume your assumption is true. That seems to be a more important question than how the distribution of income actually looked. I'm sure it is not a normal distribution since the data points will be abruptly cut off at the point where IBOs no longer qualify for Q12.
Scott
Jennybot:
Your numbers don't add up. Maybe its the sleep deprivation. Maybe its too much XS.
Maybe I gave you too much credit in the first place...?
Keith Sr and gang -- thanks for backing up my hunches with stats. As I never really got sucked into the actual deal/paperwork, I can't fire back with AmQuix stats.
Scott,
Fine print requoted:
"Gross Income" means the amount received from retail sales, minus the cost of goods sold, plus the amount of Performance bonus retained.
"Performance bonus retained" I'm sure most everybody will agree means bonus kept after paying their downline. Kind of hard to "retain" bonus if you paid it out.
So would you mind telling me how you were able to conclude that WWDB falsify their income claim by exaggerating it through reporting of downline bonuses as their own?
BTW, the income claims are not Quixtar number, they're number for those particular LOA. 1994 was Britt, 2001 was ILD, 2003 was Team 5000. Different LOA--you can't compare them.
You make a statement: "average blah". Tell me, Mr High Integrity Scott, what exactly does your statement insinuate? What's exactly is your statement?
Hi Jennifer,
I have one question for you. Have you lost your mind? or Quixtar brainwash is so powerful that it blocks out all the reasoning and common sense? Scott is backing up all his arguments with solid proof and background. All that comes our of your mouth is tape talk. I am so upset with people like you because one of my close friends got caught in this Amway/Quixtar nightmare for last 8 years and still not made direct/platinum. Don't feed me the BS that he might not be working hard enough. He is the hardest working distributor I have ever seen in my life. He dragged me in but I was fortunate enough to get out before it was too late. I will give you my contact details and I will put a challenge to you/any IBO here. If you guys make it to Diamond in 2-5 years and show me the proof, that you are making NET $250,000/year on Amway products(not on those BS tools)I will pay you $10,000 dollars from my pocket. If you don't make it, will you pay me $10,000? do you want to put your money where your mouth is? I am ready to sign a contract on this. Any takers?
Let see
Prasad.
Prasad- I've got your 6:00 - if Jennybot takes you up and will submit numbers audited by a 3rd party accountant to GAAP, I'll put up half- contact me if you doubt either my veracity or capability of following through on that promise
df - you're welcome... anytime!
Scott - as usual, a great argument backed by numbers and research - and totally overridden by meaningless tapespeak by Jennybot.
I do so hate to see otherwise perfectly intellegent human beings so locked into the lie. What a bloody waste!
Keith
Hi Jennifer,
I presented one theory as to why I thought the downline bonuses was not split out for the 1994-1995 data.
I had written Quixtar about the Britt income sheet to see if that was all of Amway or just Britt. They told me the numbers were averages across the business.
If you read the header of the ILD document it clearly says "Quixtar Average Annual Income", "©2002 Quixtar Inc.* Approximately 66% of all IBO’s of record were found to be “active*See additional information on the Welcome Page Quixtar Average Annual Income
Average Annual Income for IBO’s in North America*"
Again, let's assume you allegation is correct, and it was net after downline payments. Why then did Q12 income drop from $62,537/year (1994-1995) to $39,763 (2001) or 36%?
I'm open to hear your ideas as why the Q12 income dropped in correlation with the change of most LOS's to direct fulfillment.
Scott,
Amway USA Cananda 1994 did $1.5 bil if I remember correctly. Quixtar 2001 did $0.8 bil if I remember correctly. Perhaps the 36% drop was due to drop in width? What do you think would happen if biz declined ~50%? ~50% of Q-12 disappear and those remaining have the same width? The number of Q-12 remained the same between 1995 & 2001 and their volume drop 50%? Or somewhere in between, the # of Q-12 declined as did their volume.
In any case, where did you get WWDB inflate their income claim?
Disenchanted,
You have personal experience that IBO operating within WWG parameters don't make the income claimed? Search this blog for WWG True North parameter. QBlog posted it about 6 months ago.
This is a new and "improved" Jen, guys. I've debated her quite a bit over the last year or so and and for most of that she's been reasonable and well thought out.
She disappeared for about two months and came back as Duncan and Puryear's personal town crier all gung ho for the same "system" she spent months bashing.
Jen is headed backwards. Why?
Let's be perfectly clear . . . she'll deny it but she's getting a slice of the tools money and THAT is why we have the new Jen instead of the one that was against the system and ready to resign over the crooked BSMAA process.
Don't be fooled. This person no longer has the credibility she once had.
hi Keith,
I honestly didn't think Jennifer or any of the active IBOs would take up this challenge. Believe me or not, I gave the same option to any of the Am/Quixbots tried to contact me in malls, walmart etc.. not a single taker so far.... wonder why?
Thank you for backing up my belief that this business is a rip-off..
I only wish I get my friend back from thsese criminals. But after seeing many of Jennifer's clones, losing my hope. its amazing how limited the IBOs responses are if you ask them anything logical.
Oh well!!! one day when the empire comes crashing down, I will be there to celebrate it.
Jennifer wrote: "In any case, where did you get WWDB inflate their income claim? "
Sorry I was not clear to you on this point. I assume you got the copy of the letter I sent to Quixtar asking why the WWDB PFR has a diamond earning $250,000/year when the Quixtar released numbers for Diamond were last $150,000/year. Also I asked Quixtar why the Emeralds in the WWDB PFR were listed at $110,000 and the Quixtar data was $67,420.
The data in the Britt slide is the same as in a Quixtar printed document.
http://www.amquix.info/images/quixtar_income_slide_lg.jpg
Hi Jen,
I forgot to comment on your theory.
I've never seen an official number that Amway North America did 1.5 Billion in 1994. Can you tell me where I can find that?
Your theory about the drop in width is possible but I see it as improbable.
That assumption means that the 1994-1995 Q12 had at least 11,716 monthly PV to be able to with stand a 36% drop in volume and still remain at 7500 in 2001.
I would think the number of Q12's could actually increase in bad times. As platinumships collapse and get recombined into upline businesses and new Q12s can be created. Other Q12s can fall out to just platinum as well.
You can make a Q12 platinum from a former diamondship when the platinums no longer qualify. The former diamond becomes a strong Emerald or platinum as all the non qualifying legs goes into the former diamonds side volume. As platinumships collapse due to falling volume the upline's width could actually be increased.
I was going to stick up for Jen as a sister WWGer because she does have experience, not theories - she's a Ruby who focuses on retail (at least, she says so; I don't know her personally, yet). However, I think lawDawg is correct; she has crossed-over into Oz.
She's right about DeVos's tapes - the 1983 $ amount of 50K was not Platinum income.
However now - although, WWG's WSA4400 does show $60,000 for a first year platinum who also Q12s the same year and it does take into account paying bonuses to downline, it does not take into account expenses. Our first year at Q12, we did gross around 60K. But our tax return net profit said $3000!!!!.
And also, the WSA4400 #s of $54366 for 1st year Q12 ARE APPROVED by Quixtar (Content Reviewed #7410), but the Achievers Invitational $ amount is left blank.
And, although Quixtar approved the PFR (Content Reviewed #8219), there are no income numbers printed on it AT ALL. And IN FACT, the official PFR Instruction Sheet, which has the 110K for Emeralds and 250K for Diamond income printed for us to copy, clearly says "For IBO Use Only - Not For Use With Prospects" which is VERY interesting considering we are supposed to write the info from this sheet to the blank PFRs for our PROSPECTS.
For me, this PFR Instruction Sheet was one of the eye-openers that helped me wake up from my brainwashing to see this biz as the scam that it is.
So I wouldn't be using the PFR as proof of any Quixtar income claims.
Sorry Jen.
Dorothy
Here is the instruction sheet for the Private Franchising review.
http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/wwdb/PFR_Instruction_sheet_US_2_5_05.pdf
It is interesting how they push "Access business group", and not Quixtar.
The sheet has "Discuss the Contracting Corporation, Anchor Corporation,".
What is the Anchor corporation? That is a new one for me.
"...we did gross around 60K. But our tax return net profit said $3000!!!!.
For me, this PFR Instruction Sheet was one of the eye-openers that helped me wake up from my brainwashing to see this biz as the scam that it is.
So I wouldn't be using the PFR as proof of any Quixtar income claims."
Wow.
I repeat.
Wow.
Powerful stuff Dorthy, thanks.
The PFR instruction sheet is for IBO-only. The reason for that is all number in the PFR proper can only be filled in by the prospect. Per Puryear, it's illegal, whatever that means, for someone involved in the biz to fill out the blank and hand the completed PFR to the prospect. Since the instruction sheet has the blank filled out, it's illegal for prospect to see the instruction sheet. Hence, you give the prospect the PFR and he fill in all the info himself. Don't ask me why the prospect have to fill it in himself.
The contracting corp is Quixtar and it's discussed on page one and page 3. This is not a mention-AmQuix-for-5-seconds-at-the-end-of-the-hour curiousity plan. Quixtar is discussed upfront. The Anchor corporation is Access Business Group. On page 4 is a picture of a virtual mall. In big highlight box is the "anchor store". Those are the anchor of your biz, the coreline products. Artistry, Nutrilite, etc. In addition to the anchor store are the partnership stores. Their boxes are much smaller than the anchor store. It's also represent much smaller profit from the partner store.
"I've never seen an official number that Amway North America did 1.5 Billion in 1994. Can you tell me where I can find that?"
It's from conversation. I know Amway USA/Canada broke the billion barrier in the early 90's cuz it was talked often. I pretty sure Amway USA/Canada account for 20% to 25% of Amway worldwide sale (Amway worldwide mid 90 was between 5 & 6 bil, I believe). I don't know if I had ever read Amway press releases that break out the USA/Canada, but the 1.5 bil stuck in my mind for some reason.
As to theory on the drop in Q12 gross income, let's look at the standard Q-12 structure pushed by Yager et al (WWG is only 10% to 15%, so their structure won't account for much). The standard org is one 4000 leg, one 2500 leg, and one 1000 leg. The BV/PV for 2005 is 2.8 (btw, 2.5 BV/PV was 2001, I believe--that's the difference in number calculated earlier). With this struct, a Q-12 would be paid a total bonus of $73k. His downlines are owed $47k. If downline bonus are not count, it'll be a drop of 65% in Q12 income, not 35%.
A drop in 35% could only occur if the Q-12 is wide (eg 7 1000 PV legs).
Also, remember that the Q-12 also get leadership bonuses and ruby bonuses. A Q-12 losing 1 or 2 leadership leg would account for the 35% drop.
You tell me which one is more probable-->Q-12 on average are wide (7 legs @ 1000 PV) and the 35% drop is due to not counting downline bonuses or Q-12 volume dropped along with downline volume.
I haven't read your letter to Quixtar regarding WWDB number being much higher than other. What's was their response?
Dorothy,
If you don't mind sharing, what's the break down on your expenses in your 1st year as Q-12?
"She disappeared for about two months and came back as Duncan and Puryear's personal town crier all gung ho for the same "system" she spent months bashing.
Let's be perfectly clear . . . she'll deny it but she's getting a slice of the tools money and THAT is why we have the new Jen instead of the one that was against the system and ready to resign over the crooked BSMAA process." - lawDawg
You caught me, lawDawg. I'm sipping Mai Tai on the beaches of the world on my platinum tools money. Yup. $1 per tape.
Whenever I sign up new IBO, I pushed the entire collection on them and make them accept mp3 transfer. For that, I billed them in the low 4 digits, all $0000.00 of it. And if they want to listen to the standing order tap but don't want the tape, I make them accept mp3. Yup. You caught me.
Yup, I got a huge slice of the tools money. That's why I personally guarantee all money spent on the system (it's written). If they quit later and felt the system wasn't worth it, I give them all their money back. If they're willing to sign an NDA, they can talk to my lawyer to review my financial to satisfy themselves I can back my guarantee. Good call.
FYI, WWG switched to a "premier membershp" this year. No more break on tapes. Instead, a platinum receive $7 for each premier member. Per WWG, a typical platinum will have between 30-60 premier member. Whooohooo. $5k per year to sip Mai Tai.
If you want to know, I disappeared (actually, just stop posting), because my posting was becoming too obscene, foul, unladylike. More than my normal self. I didn't wish to be that way, so I stop posting so I can't response in such an obscene, foul manner.
What a joke. Jen, you're making some tools money and looking to make more - just like your upline pimp daddies.
Yet you spent months talking about how you knew it was corrupt and how you were going to change it and that you were going to resign when you realized you can't challenge them because of the BSMAA.
You are a hypocrite. Plain and simple. Here you are promoting the tools system for Ronny and Greggy and the rest of the Hitler youth and giving smarmy dodges when your credibility is questioned.
Sorry Jen. You built up a lot of credibility by being reasonable and straightforward.
That credibility is gone.
Jennybot:
You need to take another break. Your lies and hypocrisy are just as obscene as any cuss word or bad attitutude I could ever extrapolate here....
I find it hilarious that you are willing to work off 'discussions' and other verbal information. No facts, no data.....no clue.
Too bad you don't make anything on tools (if that is the case). That was the only way you could make any ca$h.
hahahhahahahha
Jennifer wrote: "Per Puryear, it's illegal, whatever that means, for someone involved in the biz to fill out the blank and hand the completed PFR to the prospect."
Jennifer, think about what you just wrote. Why do you suppose that would be illegal? It might have something to do with making false, improbable, and exaggerated income claims, which the FTC frowns upon. Puryear wants the IBO to write the exaggerate and improbable claims down so that they can't say and IBO made them. That means the income claims that you are supposed to get your prospect to write are not substantiated or sanctioned by the corp. and it would be "illegal" for an IBO to say to that to a prospect. So back to my assertion that the PFR review uses exaggerate numbers.
Again back to a point I made the other day. Why does the WWDB PFR has a diamond earning $250,000/year when the Quixtar released numbers for Diamond were last $150,000/year? Why are the Emeralds in the WWDB PFR were listed at $110,000 and the Quixtar data was $67,420? So now put two and two together. The WWDB PFR review numbers do not jive with the official Quixtar numbers. They are exaggerate by 49% (emerald) and 67% (diamond). Maybe that is why your buddy Ron Puryear wants the prospect to write it. If the IBO writes it he is making exaggerate claims that is not confirmed by Quixtar.
Amway already got spanked three times for making exaggerated income claims. Once in Wisconsin, and twice by the FTC.
"Jennifer, think about what you just wrote. Why do you suppose that would be illegal? It might have something to do with making false, improbable, and exaggerated income claims, which the FTC frowns upon. " - Scott L
Huh? So you're saying that if I only make an oral income claim and that if the prospect write it down, I have deniability??? If anything, it's proof that I had made those income claim and the fact that the prospect wrote it down means I can't deny I didn't make those income claim.
"So back to my assertion that the PFR review uses exaggerate numbers.
Again back to a point I made the other day. Why does the WWDB PFR has a diamond earning $250,000/year when the Quixtar released numbers for Diamond were last $150,000/year? Why are the Emeralds in the WWDB PFR were listed at $110,000 and the Quixtar data was $67,420? " - Scott L
Again, the PFR claims is not all Diamond make those money, it's Diamond within parameter--read Founders Diamond w/ Q-12 side volume. The Team 5000 show for 2003 a founders emerald $95k & founders diamond $275k. The 2001 ILD show founders emerald $89k & founders diamond $227k.
I'll quote the instruction sheet:
"An average 12 month Emerald make $110k".
"Write down the $250k average income of a 12 month Diamond".
12-month blah are founder blah. The number you're using are the non-founder one.
"So now put two and two together. The WWDB PFR review numbers do not jive with the official Quixtar numbers." - Scott L
Come again? Put two and two together and your logic are crossed. You're trying to make conspiracy out of nothing.
"Amway already got spanked three times for making exaggerated income claims. Once in Wisconsin, and twice by the FTC." - Scott L
The "exaggerated income claims" that the FTC spanked Amway wasn't the income claim itself, it's for not showing the average income along with the income claim.
Jen,
How many new WWDB "Quixtar" diamonds are there who did not start when it was called "Amway"?
So does that mean I could use the PFR review and tell IBOs they could make $250,000/year as a diamond if only I stated the average IBO earned $115/month along with it?
If it is that simple why doesn't WWDB do that instead of proding the IBO to write $250,000/year?
I looked at the PFR instructions and a copy of the Private Franchising prospect form. Interesting to note that the Quixtar disclaimer of "the average IBO earns $115/month" is no where to be seen.
The reason that the IBO cannot write down the bogus earnings of $110K, or $250K is that the prospecting IBO is not taught to also include the "$115/month" disclaimer.
It looks like Quixtar needs to revise their stats. Ken McDonald states 350,000 IBOs earned $373 million. That comes out to $1065/year, or ......$88.75/month per IBO.
Down 22% from the $115/month claim.
Remember, Scott, the $115/month was based on something referred to as a "survey" of "active" IBOs while the 350,000 IBOs mentioned by Ken in Quixtar's press release last year is not identified as "active." That's the total number. Thus, the income per IBO hasn't gone up at all in the last six years it appears. They created the illusion that it has with their so-called "survey" numbers. Heck, it hasn't even kept up with inflation.
Jen? Are you there, Jen?
I asked:
How many new WWDB "Quixtar" diamonds are there who did not start when it was called "Amway"?
Your silence here and elsewhere leads to the inescapable conclusion that the answer is ZERO!
That't some "proven" success system you're promoting there, Jen.
Hey Jen,
Where do I sign up for your Koolaid, er AQ X drink? Can I have a meeting with your lawyer to confirm your ability to give me a refund on all the tools I may buy from you? Will I also meet with Guido and Larry the Lips if I try to collect my refund - or at least be shamed into "working harder and dreaming bigger - I just don't know why someone with your talents can't MAKE IT?" Yeah, fake it til, you make it, eh Jen?
BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA...it'll be a cold day in the Sahara before I sign up for some of that.
Many kudos for those of you pursuing the numbers and facts in this string, on the Web and in real life interactions with the Cultstar adherents....
Jen, please tell us if you're OK making money when your downline loses money or makes nothing on average. Please tell us about your churn one or two levels into your downline. Please tell us if any of your downline has surpassed you in income.
Please answer LawDawg's question regarding whether there are only pre-existing Diamonds or if there are any Diamonds "created" (what a joke) since 1999. If the answer is ZERO, then what percentage chance do PROSPECTS have of making Diamond? If that number is also ZERO then we have an out and out scam here - no matter what you tell your PROSPECTS about income.
Be free of the Kool-Aid Jen - come back from the dark side...
SeattleBruce
I was excited when I came across this site when I read, "...Too many sites about Quixtar are a complete mess and seem to have a very biased view of the business, either for or against..." but the amount of extermist 'tapetalk' (as you coined) indicated that all of you are 'brainwashed' into your own camps and there is little room of actual dialogue without it degressing into extremes, personal attacks, demeaning comments... I am sorry to see that the fanactics from both camps are at war here.
Wow... for being supposedly objective-based... I am surprised at the amount of verbal gang rape that takes place on this site...(targeting Jennifer7Lee) talk about some serious hate-bordering & derogitory remarks. (lawDawg "just like your upline pimp daddies... for Ronny and Greggy and the rest of the Hitler youth") Scott Larsen seems to be one of the few who has avoiding personal-directed attacks... good for you.
All of you may want to review the About section of Eric's site!
About Quixtar Blog
...Quixtar Blog tries to maintain an objective perspective of the business and the people associated with the business...
(little objectivity... seems to me lots of verbal claims on both sides and very few documented links of evidence (excluding Scott & his helpful links))
eg: df ...thanks for backing up my hunches with stats...I can't fire back with AmQuix stats...
DF why are you even posting your 'hunches' when you jump all over Jennifer7Lee for not substaniating her claims?! Double standards again!
"The forum is free and open to everyone. The only rule is no abuse." -Eric Janssen
Good going, Q! It's time to refresh everyone's memory and to offer new IBOs the opportunity to hear it "straight from the horse's mouth"...
Posted by: Doug | February 22, 2005 1:33 PM