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February 4, 2005
Amway Christian
By QBlog in
From the Augusta Free Press (I've never heard of it either):
Amway Christian (n.): A pretentious Christian who has forgotten the original message of Jesus Christ to be of assistance with those less fortunate.
Wonder how that definition would sound if someone swapped Amway with Quixtar?
Quixtar Christian (n.): A pretentious Christian who has forgotten the original message of Jesus Christ to be of assistance with those less fortunate.
Oh. Well, mystery solved. And no, I didn't come up with this. Some Lt. Gov. named Tim Kaine said it. Complain to Kaine (yes it rhymes, how observant).
Comments
You know what Quixtar really needs to start using? Those Jack Chick tracts (www.chick.com). Those things get used to convert people to Christianity, so I figure if Quixtar changed the wording around ("going to hell" would now be "dying broke") they could use the power of little comic books to recruit IBOs.
Check out those Jack Chick tracts. They are fun-nee.
I have never read anything in the Bible that supports the theory that you need to be totally financial free before you could begin to serve and follow our Lord. When Jesus told His disciples "Come follow Me," He meant right then, not when all of their possible material needs were fulfilled. The Bible also speak quite frequently to the issue of money. Just check 'money' in a Bible concordance to see how often money is addressed.
Quixtar, please stop exploiting Christianity to meet your needs. You are not a "Christ ordained business," and certainly not God's gift to the world.
... seems that everytime our (Virginia's) Lt. Governor Tim Kaine opens his mouth some kind of spewage just leaks out ...
Care to explain what makes his comment "spewage"?
Could some one in the BWW line answer a few questions for me? At the ecumenical services that seem to occure at most of the major functions that my in-laws attend, I'll assume that Bill Britt does most of the preaching, correct?
(I honestly don't know the answer to these questions!)
1) Does he invite the church of which he is pastor to these festive events?
2) Is the worship service advertized in the city where the function is held so that all who seek God's Word may attend? Is it made know in the newspaper, other church bulletins, TV, etc. These services are life-changing from what I've heard. Who all gets to hear the message?
3) What is Bill Britt's home church, and what role does he play in it?
I'd ask my in-laws who are BWW members, but they get uspet and say that I'm not supporting them when I question anything about the business. Can someone fill me in?
Aren't there ANY IBO's who can answer my questions about BWW? All I'd like is a little information.
Dawg, all I can tell is BWW is a SCAM. nothing else. If u wanna ask da IBOs, go to da forum, dumbo. Dis post will die in archives soon.
OK, even if your not with BWW, could someone fill me in on what the worship services are like? Do the Diamonds get to do the preaching? Is there an "altar call"? Is this a community event for everyone, is it free? Is there an offering opportunity, and if so, who gets the offering money? Is if just for AmQuixers? Who knows the answers? Anybody...anybody...?
PS Thank you, Snoop dog for your intelligent and insightful post. I feel so enlightened.
inquiringmind AKA IQ asked:
"OK, even if your not with BWW, could someone fill me in on what the worship services are like? Do the Diamonds get to do the preaching? Is there an "altar call"? Is this a community event for everyone, is it free? Is there an offering opportunity, and if so, who gets the offering money? Is if just for AmQuixers?"
I can tell you what WWDB worship services were like - they are a 'descendant', if you will, or BWW (Bill Britt was Ron Puryear's Diamond, and Ron broke off and formed WWDB, but continued to deify Britt).
At Leadership & FED, WWDB had a ministry group, the Goads, lead the worship service. They are a legitimate ministry out of Orlando Florida, and also a gospel singing group. A diamond would get up and give their Christian testimony - usually one of the newer diamonds. At one FED, Bill Britt was a guest speaker (I, along with several others, walked out). At Family Reunion, the worship service was done by the Family head Diamond...in other words, a Diamond or above who has qualified to have their own family reunion. He was NOT an ordained minister, yet preached the Sunday service.
Yes, there has been an altar call at every one that I've been to.
I suppose folks could walk in off the street, or employees of the arena can come in. Latter is more likely than former - it was not advertised to my knowledge. There were no tickets and no assigned seating.
Yes, an offering was always taken. When the Goads were there, the envelopes were addressed to their ministry. At Family Reunion, however, it was an obscure ministry that wasn't really defined on who received the $$ or how it was spent, so I really do not know where it went.
Hope this answered some of your questions.
Just as an FYI, Lt. Gov. Tim Kaine (D) is from Virginia, and will be challenging the former Attorney General, Jerry Kilgore (R), for the Governor's Office in 2005.
Thanks, Disenchanted, for your info.
So if I am reading this correctly, what qualifies a person to preach at one of the worship services is the fact that they have reached a certain level in AmQuix. Until you're making a certain amount of money, you don't get the chance to witness to the crowd. What an interesting way to "ordain" a person as bona fide preacher. You earn your chance to preach.
Is there any review about what a person preaches about? Does anyone question the doctrine? I can see a lot of room left for human manipulation of the Gospel in this system. If this isn't an unorthadox mixture of Christianity and business, I don't know what is.
To inquiringmind AKA IQ:
You can witness to others in your downline - in fact you are encouraged to! Does that count? I remember a tape of Ron Puryear where he said that one of the reasons people didn't come away from the functions with a bang & start building their businesses at a fast & furious pace was that they didn't attend the WHOLE function. WHOLE meaning including the Sunday service. As if the ONLY WAY FOR YOUR BUSINESS TO SUCCEED WAS IF YOU WERE A CHRISTIAN. Almost suggesting that if you did accept the Lord at the function, your business was destined to succeed. This was really kind of creepy - not being a Christian, but interweaving the two so intricately. Shouldn't surprise anyone that's been in for any length of time that you have to 'earn' the right to preach, because you have to 'earn' the right to 'associate' with and cultivate friendships with upline that did not directly sponsor you. I always found this silly - I don't have to 'earn time' to be with friends. Time should be spent with those who mutually agree that they want to do so. One more way that AmQuix is more like a traditional job atmosphere than what they lead you to believe. Just my thoughts.
And yes, if you don't agree with what they're preaching up on stage, you are free to walk out. However, if someone SEES you leaving (and they know you of course), they may question your decision to go.
This is what scares me about the kind of Christianity you're describing. What if I get saved at a function's worship service, and after years of being involved in the biz, I don't become filthy rich with all of my dreams coming true. Couldn't it appear that my faith isn't strong enough when in actuality, could it possibly be that God has other plans for me? Does not becoming rich in AQ make me less of a Christian, according to the Quixstar Christian mentality?
If Christian outreach and ministry are TRULY the motivation for why the biz exists, than every time some one shows the plan, they should share their own dream to the prospect, that they are planning to give their millions to the church, and a Christian witness should be given then, not only if the prospect gets on board as a downline.. Otherwise all you're doing is sharing the Good News of the Gospel with those people who are making money for you.
Scary!...And this isn't considered a cult???
I believe that it undoubtedly IS a cult. And a very dangerous one at that. It's pseudo-Christianity at its best, which is what makes it so darn scary...
What is KATE?
These IBO's are some evil SOB's. I've had many of them approach me and not until reading this blog did I realize that it was a religous cult. I had no idea that religion was even a factor. I was highly skeptical about the business, however, when I began to realize that their method of recruitment is simply to infatuate people with high income figures. Yet, these IBO's fail to reveal the intricacies of what they do. I didn't join, but I would BEWARE.
At Least quixtar people are out working for their dream instead of cooped up in a cubical working for another mans dream! oh and at functions, they have church services...yeah im an IBO! how can you trust sumthing that you've never heard of????? thats like asking a broke man for financial advise!
its not about the money. this business may have some glitches in it, but doesnt everything. when i got in, i had to stop going to crusades, somthing i really didnt like, but i did it because i felt called to a higher purpose. most of the IBO's are not out to get money, they just want a chance to be free, and were not saying everyone is called to be in bww, that would be a cult. everyone has the same calling, to love God and to love others, so i dont see the problem in helping other people by doing this business, rather than helping myself for 40 years, it seems kind of selfish to me. but like i said, everyone is called to different paths in life, so stop trying to trash the bww system when you really dont know anything about it.
I was part Quixtar for approx 2 years, I went to all the functions, bought all the products, had a few downline, was making a small amount of money. I decided it was not for me due to my current work restraints and time. But the Funtions were a great time to learn, build your personal self confidence. spending time with good people I got to know very well. The Sunday Service was not manditory, it was told to be just like any church service you attend. Plus there were auditoriums made availible for the Indian religion and others who were not Christian. I saw many people come to give there lives to Christ. They told people weather you are part of the team or not you will still receive the blessings of Christ our Lord. And some of the best people I had know were part of Quixtar. I do think the organization has gotten away from its values it originally started with. Overall, I would like to join the team again when I get some more time. People judge the people here, but just have them take a look at themselves first before judgeing other people and we'd all be better off. Have a Blessed Day.
Just reading above. KATE is simple a voice mail system, just like the one on your cell phone.
I agree with the last post.
I am quite tired of people "asking" these questions with an "air" about them. The whole thing is VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it, don't go. If you can't make it as a waiter, I would suggest you quit. People always quit. It is part of the nature of things. No worries. Christ "never" called anyone to be "ordained" or sanctioned to preach or teach. The bible is always open to anyone who wants to read it. If you listen to the message, you are always encouraged to go read the bible for yourself as well. I have been to MANY "sanctioned" churches and denominations where crap is being taught. Who knows.
Bottom line.
this is a VOLUNTARY organization of individuals coming together. You can leave anytime and not be fired. If you don't like what you see, don't join. Many people don't like the medical field. Is it 100% clean? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Do people still do it and act clean? ABSOLUTELY YES!
So, my point is... What is your point?
I just returned from a function in Greenville and attended an Open meeting last week and a Night Owl last night. Professionally, I am a Mechanical Engineer with a decent salary though I desire greater financial freedom. Spritually, I am a Covenanter Christian (www.truecovenanter.com) that upholds the original and entire Westminster Standards (and subsequent statements related to the Standards).
(No, I am not an IBO with Quixtar or any other MLM confederation.)
I would be spiritually concerned for a new Christian (especially my friend who introduced me to Quixtar) because (1) the way that financial freedom is presented through the videos and introductory music, (2) the liberal type of ecumenism among the professing Christians in Quixtar, (3) a Diamond's commentary on "healed" in an Isaiah 53 verse, and (4) having business/commerce (through a business speech, albeit unofficial, after the service) on the Lord's Day.
(Ecumenism and unity is very good, but it must be founded on Scripture, not men's emotions or sacrificing Truth for Church Unity.)
However, my concerns would be tend to be minor in light of the bigger picture. The service and even a few of the speeches had warnings and exhortations to use the wealth in a wise and responsible manner and to emphasize that morality is requisite to the right/moral use of wealth in one's own life as well as towards others. The big picture with which I walked away is that the confederation is about improving one's whole self, not just improving one's financial state, and also helping others. Hence, Quixtar embodies James 2, Mark 10:45, and 1.John 3:16. Also, although an ordained preacher did not teach the Word at the optional service, the Gospel was declared in a clear manner, and anyone, regardless of ordination, has the God-given authority and responsbility to declare the Gospel. And Larry Winters did just that in obedience to his Saviour Jesus.
On the point that mentioned about not committing to the local church regarding involvement, I don't believe that is true since my Quixtar connection (who would be my upline-upline-upline, or upline^3 if I would join) was very accomodating and still supported my Bible Study involvement, which conflicts with the meeting times. Yes, he would prefer that I would change bible studies if possible, but he still supports my involvement in the local church and its smaller bible studies.
And another thing, Quixtar strongly encourages attendance at all functions, but it is not required. However, I would not understand a person not attending and benefitting from the helpful resource of meetings (unless the person was sick or had higher priority things to do).
I also look and investigate very carefully any organization and never follow or commit to anything willy nilly. I do not blindly follow anyone especially a human, and I would have reservations about "do what they (anyone upline) do" instruction. (I am not sure if they blindly follow the uplines and discourage questioning. Hopefully, they don't do that. I'll see as I look into it further.) To-date in my investigation through professional and spiritual resources, I would say that Quixtar is NOT a professional or spiritual cult.
Well this completely explains why my Brother and Sister-in-law are becoming born again Christians and being baptized this Sunday.
They are trying to "save" me now.
This is quite clever! I wonder if it's in the IBO dictionary with edify and awesome. Probably not, but it should be in the ex-IBOs dictionary!
Amazingly, we were told through tapes and functions to find a bible believing church. And we were taught to serve...but warned NOT to commit to regular activities and serve at church (usher, elder, regular bible studies) because regularly scheduled activities would be a distraction from your main goal, which is your business. So the recommendation was to take your Christian 'service' and 'serve' your business - downline, new IBOs, new prospects, and oh yes, 'serve' your upline by showing them you were serious about the business...STP, read, listen to tapes, don't neglect KATE, attend the meetings, show support by being there and being available for your business 24/7. Do what it takes, in other words, and you will be rewarded in 2-5 years. THEN, once you have 'succeeded' you could give all the money you wanted to your church, because you would be rolling in it!!
Posted by: Disenchanted IBO | February 4, 2005 11:59 AM