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January 22, 2005
"Mysterious Meeting" Strikes Again!
By QBlog in
Why do so many Quixtar IBOs routinely use the "Mysterious Meeting" tactic to lure new recruits into the "business?" Your guess is as good as mine.
Today I discovered another casualty of Quixtar's "Mysterious Meeting" assault, a blogger called "drpentode." What's surprising to me is that "drpentode's" reaction to the "Mysterious Meeting" is virtually identical to the reactions of every other blogger who's posted about the experience. Maybe it shouldn't surprise me but I just can't understand why such a large number of IBOs fail to grasp that the "Mysterious Meeting" approach is stupid.
Here are a few excerpts from "drpentode's" blog:
...A few weeks ago, I met a guy at church who says his job is to be a "Business Developer." He said he helps people build relationships to start and fund businesses. I thought this was cool, so I asked him who he works for. He said he works for "World Group."
... This weekend, my buddy invited me to a "Networking Meeting" where I could meet other business professionals and make some contacts ... so I agreed to go.
What a waste of time. During the 2-hour drive to Appleton, I probed my buddy for more information. What does World Group do? Who is in World Group? How come I have never heard of them if they're so big? Soon, I realized it was all an elaborate scheme to get me to a Quixtar meeting to see "The Plan." GACK!
Why couldn't he have been straightforward and told me what we were doing?
That's an excellent question. Why can't some IBOs be straightforward? Maybe they're learning the art of confusion and deception from the Quixtar Corporation itself? What do you think Quixtar's Web Initiative is but an elaborate strategy to obscure and hide information from those who desire it most?
And that leads me to this question. If Quixtar's business is so damn good, then why hide it from people? Why the "Mysterious Meetings?" Because you know that the first question asked of someone hiding information is, "What information are you hiding and why?"
What and why indeed.
Comments
I almost believe if you asked 500 people to get in quixtar straight forward that you would
get the same results as the "mysterious" way.
I think you lose credibility in the eyes of the prospect if you use the mysterious approach.
Its funny, how many of us have been appoached by a real franchise owner to own a business..very Nill.
Could you imagine a real franchise owner trying to use the mysterious approach LMAO
I like Dan Kennedy's direct response marketing idea's. He is the info commercial guru (behind the scenes)
His whole philosophy in a nutshell is to run direct response ad campaigns, then work with just the ones that ask for information.
That weeds out all the time and effort in spear chucking into the crowds for a Halibut.
I'm very successful in the Quixtar business and I never "mysteriously" invite someone to see the business plan. I want to know right away if they are open minded and smart enough to see what we have our hands on. If they aren't, I don't want to waste my time convincing them that the job journey leads to a dead end and they'll be part of the 98% dead or broke at 65 and still shopping at Walmart and funding Sam Walton's kids.
It's a total no-brainer if you really look at it and see who we are in business with (Disney, Circuit City, Barnes and Noble, Office Max...). Even the Amway business (which Quixtar IS NOT) was an exceptional business. You had to work it like the training organization teaches (the corp does not teach how to build a business). It takes work, but much less then ANY business out there (read "Franchising For Dummies"). Most training organizations DO NOT teach to "hide" the business. And we DON"T work for Quixtar, we work for ourselves. The training organizations set you up in business ongoing, so that's why people say that. I hope this helped. Have fun being broke and working as a slave the rest of your life.
Mary,
Since you are successful in the Quixtar business and you don't use the curiousity approach, would you mind sharing a sample of how you talk about the business with a prospect?
Thanks.
Mary Carleton,
I ask this as a "thought prevoking" question, please don't post your personal information. I want to test YOUR open-mindedness.
Okay. Write down the amount of your last bonus check. Okay.
Now subtract how much money you've spent on the following:
1. Standing Orders
2. Meeting tickets
3. Night Owl food
4. $5.15 x amount of time you've spent recruiting.
Okay. Are you in the red or the black?
Black? Congratulations!
Red? How do you plan to get yourself in the black?
If you can answer that question without checking with someone else, you're independent and have a chance at being a business owner.
If your answer is to ask someone who's answer is to buy more books and tapes, well, that kind of busts a hole in the "independent" AND "Business Owner" parts of your title.
If your reaction is to call me a broke loser, well, I pity you. I'm not broke and I don't need your acceptance to avoid being a loser.
Peace
Hi Mary Carlson,
Welcome to the blog. What brings you here? Really, I want to know. Did you stumble across this site after typing in quixtar or did your downline tell you how he/she found this conflicting info on the web? What's the story?
It's great to hear that you are successful in Quixtar. I'd love to hear in your own words (not the words of your upline or tapes/books/etc. you've listened to) how you come to the conclusion that Quixtar isn't Amway. Then I'd invite you to look at this:
http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/01/name-game.html#comments
I'd also love to hear (again, in your own words, and remember those of us who comment here regularly can spot Amway tapespeak faster than you can say 'edify' in the wrong context) where you came to the 98% dead or broke statistic.
And finally, because you seem to be so convinced that you do not work for Quixtar, I would suggest you take a look here:
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_ibo.html
Can't wait to hear back from you.
Mary Mary quite contrary
Yes, you're statistics are about as right on as any other "I"BO that posts here. And you listen to tapes too!
I guess the Corp. doesn't teach you how to build a business, but I noticed they declined to say anything on the Dateline story. Why's that?
Yes, you define it best when you use the term "no brainer" in the same sentence as you are in business with Disney, Circuit City, Barnes and Noble, Office Max. Obviously you have absolutely no idea how the real business world works, in terms of partnerships and mergers. Amway/Quixtar is nothing more than a vendor to these guys. Duh...
Oh, you ended on a classy note with, "Have fun being broke and working as a slave the rest of your life."
If I go on a road trip, I decide where to stay, do you? Or is it where the upline tells you? I hang out with whomever I like. Do You? Or just people in the business? I expand my horizons by going places and speaking to people without trying to catch them off guard in a mall. I speak to people when I want, and listen to what they say, never an ulterior motive in mind where I can profit from their effort. How about you? I don't drop a pile of money every month to show any of my co-workers that I'm worthy of their time. I help them, they help me. That's reality, and that is more of a partnership than you will ever find in your rinky dink business (I love that term!)
Good Luck though. BTW, someone as plugged in as you should be able to point out a diamond who was never in Amway, just Quixtar. It's been 5 years, where's the diamonds?
Where indeed.
How about you?
Okay,
I gotta say something about this one.
Rocket,
Your way out of line on these posts. How can you assume what people do in this business? That comment that we are all 'brainwashed' is a huge copout. It actually tells me alot how your business was run. You can't possibly call a billion dollar business rinky-dink unless you yourself have a few billion dollars. Have you tried becoming an affiliate of Disney, bass pro shops, shop.com, etc? It's very hard to become an affiliate unless your website is of such high quality and can generate ALOT of qualified leads on a daily basis. If you can become an affiliate for any of these companies quixtar partners with, I'd be impressed. I do know for a fact that you couldn't come close to generating the amount of leads quixtar does.
I need to add something else to it as well. I really don't see Quixtar as being an MLM company anymore. I see it as being an affiliate company. If you know how to run affiliate programs, you know how to run a quixtar business.
That's just my two cents worth.
Michael, go here:
http://mlmblog.typepad.com/blog/
Look at the big names he's "affiliated" with. They're all on the bottom left corner of your screen. He has a post about the very thing you are talking about. I don't remember what month it was. Sorry. Have a browse, it may be insightful.
"It's very hard to become an affiliate unless your website is of such high quality and can generate ALOT of qualified leads on a daily basis. If you can become an affiliate for any of these companies quixtar partners with, I'd be impressed."
With the above link in mind, I think that I could also become supremely affiliated with other large companies,as Quixtar has done. Are you sure you know what you're talking about, or is your upline on the phone right now with you telling you what to type?
I challenge you to point out an instance where I've used the term "brainwashed" when talking to an "I"BO.
I can and will call it rinky dink. I think its funny.
And True
Rocket,
In your very comment,
'If I go on a road trip, I decide where to stay, do you? Or is it where the upline tells you? I hang out with whomever I like. Do You? Or just people in the business?'
If that's not a good description of the term 'brainwashed' I'd like you to tell me what the difference is.
Also, on this link you provided, how many leads is mlmblog sending to these partner stores on a daily basis?
I do happen to know what I am talking about when it comes to affiliate marketing. If you ever read my blog, I do have a new series on Affiliate marketing 101 every wednesday that I publish. I have also studied just about every affiliate marketing guide published on the web these days.
Mikey:
I thought you were done posting here??
What's that you don't speak English.
Then here, let me translate it into your native tounge
"Baaj bbaaaaah ba baaah"
That's sheepspeak, a derivative of tapespeak.........
Bro, no one is buying what you're selling, at least here we aren't, so save that garbage for someone else.
You aren't into "helping" other people, you want to improve your bottom line.
If you really want to help people, go do some community service. With numerous blizzards hitting the northern US, there are lots of people without food nor shelter that could really use your help!
Mary,
I would really like to see your response to imanewme's request. I have family members who think that Quixtar is the best thing that has ever happened to them. They attend the weekly meeting nights, conferences, and functions religiously. They have a medicine chest full of vitamins and supplements, some they don't even use or need. They buy grocery items in such large quantities from "their company" and are alway giving us items (ketchup, mayo, shampoo,... the list goes on...) because they have so much, they can't use it all. When I ask if they are making a profit in "their business," they tell me about the $100 check they got in tha mail last month. They can't get the concept of how to figure out how to see if you are showing a profit in a business. Of all the functions, meetings, and tapes they've listened to or attended, no one has ever taught them how to tell if they are making a profit?!? What kind of business would leave out such an important aspect of its business? I see my in laws spending money hand over fist for stuff from "the biz," but how much money are they putting out in the first place? I wrote to the author of The Quixtar Price is Right," hoping to get some answers. (After all, he does have a PhD in business. You'd think he'd include his awesome Amway business on his resume, and the Quixtar book he wrote as one of his publications, but neither were mentioned...?) He, too, danced around my questions. Why is everyone in Quixtar so afraid to show what their bottom line is after subtracting their expenses from their profits. It really is a simple question that most IBOs seem to be afraid to answer. Please don't use the comparison of a college education and textbooks as being comparable to Am/Quix "tools." The comparison doesn't hold water.
My opinion is read all the info on the internet (good & Bad) and decide for yourself.Be open minded.Try it before you register.My 16 years experience in A/Q was a complete waste of time and money.I would highly reccomend it to NO ONE!
Michael, you said:
"Also, on this link you provided, how many leads is mlmblog sending to these partner stores on a daily basis?"
My answer to that is WHO CARES? You go from saying you have to have a high calibre blog in order to have all these fantastic organizations who will let you do with what MLM Blog is doing. I think MLM has a very interesting and worthy blog, so find the article where he writes about his "partnership" endeavor. This just proves the point that just like in your little business, there really is no certain qualifying criteria to be met for these companies to link with any given web-site.
I still don't know where you got me calling any IBO brainwashed. Allow me to refresh you:
"That comment that we are all 'brainwashed' is a huge copout."
Where the hell did I say that? You quoted me as saying brainwashed, so where is it?
How does Amway/Quixtar like you telling people that this is not Quixtar (check your rules of conduct), it's affiliate marketing? How do the affiliates feel about that? Here's a quote:
A number of these companies have written letters stating their corporate policy: "Amway is only a reseller of our products and no joint venture or partnership of any kind should be implied."
For the full article, go here:
http://www.cocs.com/jhoagland/lies.html#3
It's clear that these are not your partners, they're a vendor relationship. Sorry. Not your fault, but those are the facts.
Maybe you should study your Amway business rules instead of affiliate marketing guides. A sharp guy like you can be diamond in no time, just focus on that!
Michael, Mary Carlson, and a Fellow IBO, welcome. Despite how it looks, I do enjoy your comments. Hopefully you have the jam to stick around, despite the beatings your business takes. Most folks like you take off after every argument on the tapes is exausted and common sense kicks in. I thought Chris was in for the duration, but I'm starting to think he OD'd on XS during a pre-function tailgate party.
DF, as always, well played, Sir.
Rocket,
Where did I ever say that its NOT Quixtar, but its affiliate marketing? I said its not MLM, but more like affiliate marketing.
Affiliate marketing is a form of re-selling DUH.
When I introduce the business, I use the direct approach, I've got nothing to hide. My attitude is SW SW SW NEXT!
Actually, quixtar rules of conduct allows us to use the term 'private franchising' when we are introducing the business to prospects, but we are required to give them a SA4400 and a PFR.
Didn't DF clarify for us that he was the one who called us 'brainwashed'? My mistake, get over it!
Rocket, I enjoy your comments as well. Its great that people can have a difference of opinions and have a valid arguement for both sides of the issue. I just don't have time for petty comments like calling people brainwashed, etc. Why do you think I like reading this blog? Cause its a difference of opinion. People can agree to disagree and still discuss things.
Meanwhile, I am off to the Minneapolis Boat show today to go dream and prospect peeps! Have a GREAT Sunday all!
Michael said: "My mistake, get over it!"
HUH?
I thought people apologized when admitting mistakes.
The times, they must be a-changin'
PW
So Mike is going to pass over the cold & hungry in Minny in order to prospect at a Boat Show???????
This guy REALLY IS helping people.....
what a saint.
Sheesh! Or should I say, "sheep!"
MARY,
You work for your Diamond....you shill for his tools. 98% dead or dead broke at 65 is a lie... most of the stuff taught in your "tools' supported meetings are.
Can we get the Pearl Jam song "Crazy Mary" on the jukebox for our good friend Mary....it seems fitting.
((Actually, I think it is PJ covering Lucinda Williams, but that's neither here nor there))
DF,
I don't understand where my helping people make money translates into not helping the poor?
But when you have to resort to stupid comments like that translates into alot of "blah blah blah blah blah blah" to me as well.
I now know why your initials are "DF". You might need to think about that one...
Ooh, Mikey, that rapier wit of yours is almost as sharp as the point on top of your head......
You didn't get into that Amscam to help people...you got into it to make money!
That's why people go into business. Anything else is simply a lie.
Your dream circle was filled with cars and boats...not helping people...ADMIT IT!
((BTW, that is a great moral inventory to have--one that is based on materialism.))
If you want to keep feeding YOURSELF lies, then go for it; again, you don't bring that stuff over here because we all know better.
I am sure you told yourself that it is really cool to hang out at the boatshow/bookstore/mall to prospect. I hate to break it to you Mikey, but THAT IS ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!!!
"But when you have to resort to stupid comments like that translates into alot of "blah blah blah blah blah blah" to me as well.
I now know why your initials are "DF". You might need to think about that one..."
What the he11 are you talking about? It's illiteracy like this that really makes anti-Quixscam think IBOs aren't all there. Use the Preview button on your posts. Call your dog over to proofread your posts. Just make sure your jabber makes sense.
Finally, to borrow from John Oneeye Ashcroft: Let the Eagles soar.
[bump]
Ooh, Mikey, that rapier wit of yours is almost as sharp as the point on top of your head......
You didn't get into that Amscam to help people...you got into it to make money!
That's why people go into business. Anything else is simply a lie.
Your dream circle was filled with cars and boats...not helping people...ADMIT IT!
((BTW, that is a great moral inventory to have--one that is based on materialism.))
If you want to keep feeding YOURSELF lies, then go for it; again, you don't bring that stuff over here because we all know better.
I am sure you told yourself that it is really cool to hang out at the boatshow/bookstore/mall to prospect. I hate to break it to you Mikey, but THAT IS ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!!!
Mike,
Quixtar is not an affiliate, And you are mislead that its hard to become an affiliate of the bigstores.
Walmart will let you become one in fact if you type in affiliate programs in Google, you can go to many sites that organize companies that offer an affiliate program. All you do is pick and choose which ones you want and set your website up.
The Quixtar business pays 7 levels deep, Most true affiliates just pay you a commission, a few will pay a referral fee for other affiliate sign ups.
http://www.v-store.com/ is free and pays 15%-35% commission, You pay and handle nothing except to market the site.
Mary,
After you ask if they are looking and they say yes..do you say welll I have a Quixtar Business or do you invite them to a meeting and do not tell them it is QUixtar untill the speaker reveals it after he spins the Dream?
Michael Said :
Where did I ever say that its NOT Quixtar, but its affiliate marketing? I said its not MLM, but more like affiliate marketing.
Affiliate marketing is a form of re-selling DUH.
When I introduce the business, I use the direct approach, I've got nothing to hide. My attitude is SW SW SW NEXT!
Actually, quixtar rules of conduct allows us to use the term 'private franchising' when we are introducing the business to prospects, but we are required to give them a SA4400 and a PFR.
I say:
still sounds like run-around to me. It is MLM. No matter what else it is "like". A dog is a dog.... even if it is "like" a wolf in shape, color, and number of teeth. But a Collie is not a Wolf.
If I am playing Uno, and say the green cards are now "snarffle" and not green. That term is only relevent to the people playing the game, if you want others to play the game... you have to explain it to them. Like when we were in Amway and were told "Diamond = Millionaire"... I now know that is not true.... Diamond CAN be a millionaire, but not earning a million dollars a year from their Amway/Quixtar business alone. A/Q tells you the avg Diamond annual payout is nowhere near a million dollars. But, the Diamond can easily make a million dollars a year from their business that "supports" (ie sells tools) to the Amway distributors / Quixtar IBOs that subscribe to it.
Wanna get rich like your Diamonds and live their lifestyle... create a tools business and lie, lie, lie.
Roger
Crap, all this dream stealing going on and my computer catches a cold.
Kudos to the people that can actually differentiate between affiliate marketing and network marketing. It is not the same. Last time I checked, by definition, Amway or Quixtar IS network marketing.
Thanks for the apology that makes it seem as though it's my fault that you screwed up. Very sincere, although I guess that's par for the course in Amway.
I noticed that Micheal did not refute the irrefutable. Good for you, Michael.
Care to go on with your little diatribe about how hard it is for Quixtar to become connected to such high ranking companies?
Fellow IBO? Mary?
Thought So.
Proud Mary,
I really would like to know how this "business" that you "have on your hands" is so "much less" work than any other business. Please explain to me how 2 meetings a week at 4 hours a pop, plus 2 hours a week of "phone scan� (or what ever the hell you call it), plus the bi-weekly mini-functions which take 1-2 hours to drive too and last for 4-5 hours, plus the bi-monthly FUNCtions that take 4-6 hours to drive too and last all weekend (::sigh::: all day in that same sweaty knee length flowered dress and blazer. Tisk, tisk) plus all the time you spend hanging out at Barnes & Noble, Petsmart or a boat show like your (not so noble) colleague, prospecting or "showing the plan" as it's called (I'll estimate about 6 hours a week considering you'll drive to the ends of the earth to sell that XS), plus all that time you spend talking with your "up-line", plus the 8 hours a day you spend at your "stinking J.O.B" to fund this little venture, is so " much less then ANY business out there"?
BTW, if the “broke� people are funding Sam Walton’s kids, who are you funding, Dexter Yagers, because you damn sure aren’t funding your own.
While you at it, please clarify the following statement:
[quote] …the job journey leads to a dead end and they'll be part of the 98% dead or broke at 65 [/quote]
As if with Quixtar I’m more likely to live longer than the, as you put it “98%� that end up broke.
Oh and another thing, you are not “in business with (Disney, Circuit City, Barnes and Noble, Office Max...)� you simply buy products from them. So your in business with them as much as ever other “Walmart� shopper is in business with Walmart (don’t you just LOVE that store). Your not invited to marketing meetings, nor do you own shares, they suits don’t know you exist; though you may tell people that they do.
Now come on back and show us the blind faith you so effortlessly toss around, I’m sure your up-line would be proud.
Makes me laugh those that instantly put up the "Multi Level Marketing" or "Pyramid Scheme" flag as soon as they comment on Quixtar. So tell me what is wrong with MLM? Most of the world's corporations, one way or the other, are involved in MLM? Making money off other people, that's how businesses make money! "I don't want anything to do with a pyramid scheme" says the civil servant or corporate pen pushing yes man who believe it or not is involved in pyramid scheme themselves. Except to advance up the ladder they have to wait for the person above to quit or die. But in Quixtar the upline encourage you to create more volume than them. So do gooders tell me exactly what is wrong with MLM, tell me what is wrong with helping other people quit their 9-5 robot jobs to enjoy more time with their families instead of watching their lives drift by and moaning about everything under the sun. I've been involved with Quixtar for 15 months and I dedicated time to make it work instead of trying it for 5 minutes and getting frustrated with the world. You reap what you sow. Get with it and get a life.
So sayeth the "Rob" who does not know the difference between a pyramid structure and scheme. He who claims "most" corporations are involved in MLM. Do you know what MLM is? Are you confusing it with retail sales? manufacturer sells to wholesaler, sells to distributor, sells to retailer. Each makes one level of profit from what they sell.
MLM requires "multiple levels" of payouts requiring you to create many buyers buying from each othe, hopefully to the public. Or in the case of Quixtar, just "buy it yourself, from yourself" and "teach" others to do the same.
Roger
Hello from California!
After talking to many people about this business, my impression is that you get what you put into it. Use your resources and your own unique personal touch and you COULD be financially successful. Also, research, research, and research and remember to ask the "right Questions" and don't be afraid to play " devil's advocate."
MG2
I just had a Mystery Metting tonight. Why didnt they just tell me so I could say, "sorry dont wast your time"??
He said the business was consulting... what a lie... and I'm supposed to do business with him? Yhea right.
IF QUIXTAR/AMWAY ARE SO GREAT WHY THE $28 MILLION DOLLAR TAX FRAUD? LOOK IT UP! IT HAPPENED! WHY WOULD ANYONE DO BUSINESS WITH A CORP LIKE THAT!?
I just left a "mysterious meeting" during which I even mentioned Amway. I am home twenty minutes later (after wasting hours to meet up with an old buddy - right) and Amway - Quixtar - QuickStar - Quick Star is all over the Web like a rash. This is the second time someone wasted my time under the guise of friendship when all they wanted was for me to become part of their "line." Well all you IBOs, I ain't yos and you can stick this business model right up your downline. Give your prospects a chance to really understand how the scheme (yes, it's a scheme) works and how (like you) to take advantage of it. I know that's not what's been beaten into your head (quadrants, fincial freedome, extra income, monthly holidays, promises of pastures that parallel heaven) but get real, recruit more scam artists, and go screw more people like yourselves. My question to the next mysterious meeting, "this isn't going to be a pitch for Amway/Quixtar is it? Cause if it is, don't waste my time or I'm walking out and stiffing you with the whole bill." Oy! Maybe my "friend" and I can find something else to discuss and maintain a relationship. Then again, fugg'em. - Kissmuh Azz
This was actually one of the things that made sense to me.
I was well aware that Amway (at the time I got involved) had a bad reputation. After seeing the plan, they asked me if what I had seen matched my impression of it before seeing it. I said that it had not. I was under the impression that Amway was door-to-door product sales and recruiting. It wasn't catalogs and changing buying habits and teaching. I had what I thought was a totally different concept of what I was being shown. (I had no idea about the proper definition of a pyramid scheme, and I was completely unaware of the "cult" aspect of it.)
They asked me if I went up to someone and told them that it was Amway, would they be likely to answer based upon their preconceived notions, rather than what I had actually seen, and when I said yes, I realized that telling someone it was Amway would not necessarily telling them what I thought was the truth.
Of course, now that I understand what they had to hide, it makes much more sense that it would be convoluted and mysterious. But at the time, it made complete sense. Hiding the name (Amway, Quixtar, whatever) buys them the time they need to show whatever the current version of the plan is. And that plan can change, depending upon what the latest buzz on the street might be. (Oh, it's e-commerce. . . Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket.)
PW
Posted by: PW | January 22, 2005 11:43 AM