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November 4, 2004
Things To Do Instead
By QBlog in
Don Hargraves runs the fascinating Alticor Memory Hole site which is "dedicated to Ashley Wilkes." Ashley Wilkes is said to have published the very first Web site critical of the Amway Motivational Organizations, pre-dating even Sidney Schwartz. Hargrave's Memory Hole site offers a great deal of historical information about Amway and the AMOs as well as a some commentary. There's one bit of commentary that I especially enjoy (and MO reminded me of it yesterday) and Hargraves has given me permission to republish it on this blog.
Things To Do
With Your Life Other Than Amway
- By Don Hargraves. Republished with permission
It should be obvious, but there are people out there who think "If I don't do this, what will I do?" So I've put together a list of things that one can do with the extra time no longer taken up by snowing the recruits and showing the plan.
You will note that I don't put up "Get a Job." I've tried to avoid the obvious, plus I would like people to think of things to do that don't specifically revolve around the gathering and spending of money. In short, lose the hyperfocus on money and possessions and you might find yourself.
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Sleep
America is badly sleep-deprived. CEO's spend eighteen hours per day figuring out new ways to squeeze workers for the sake of their shareholders, working stiffs work as much overtime as they can to afford the latest SUV's, Urban Poor work three jobs just to afford rent and the car that's constantly on the verge of falling apart, college students study and attend classes and do extracurricular activities so they will be able to get that "good job waiting at the end of the rainbow," mothers juggling children job andhubby -- all these people cut back on sleep and pay for it.Recent studies have shown that when you go without sleep, you use more Cortisol than you should. Cortisol is a steroid that increases awareness of the environment and makes the body burn energy efficiently. This steroid is so powerful that the body turns its Cortisol supply off whenever one goes to sleep.
And the results of increasd cortisol usage? I have three female friends who have had excessive cortisol in their body for an extended
time -- one from athsma drugs, the second from psychotropic drugs, the third from ten years of incest. All three of them are heavy, have trouble going to sleep (having night terrors during the early part of the night), and have fought years of depression. The scientific studies I have read say pretty much the same thing about others who don't get enough sleep.Get your sleep -- death will be too late.
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Spend Time With Your Children
Kids will not wait until you can "walk the beaches of the world" and travel in your land-yacht with them. They need your attention now, while you're struggling with the rent for your tenement apartment, or in your suburban home where it seems every week you're money's gone before you get it. Time not spent with them now cannot be made up later in life, no matter what anyone says. -
Vacation -- on a budget if need be
I remember the first time I went to New York City. I stayed in a place that was $15 a night, went everywhere either by subway or foot, and bought a single momento of the trip. While visits into the museums were pricy, they were worth it, and the subway took me everywhere I chose not to walk to. Only thing I missed: The twin towers, and that's because I thought they would still be around today.Similar story with my most recent trip to DC: el cheapo snoozing, lots of walking and no momentos. Transport to and from DC was the most expensive part of the trip, and that's because I didn't think of hitch-hiking.
And for those with children, think different. Don't think "Florida;" think some place within a couple of hours of where you live. There's still plenty of places a ways off the expressway that would fill a kid with awe and you with appreciation of the past.
Moral? You don't need to spend tons of money to enjoy a vacation.
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Own Your Own Business
I know and have known people who've run their own used items shop, pet care store, sold used cars, sold bowling equipment to bowlers, and ran restaurants. In each case, the people running these businesses were able to make plenty of money and, when they got out of the business, got out with money. Don't let fearmongers fool you, most businesses make money. Interesting fact: seventy percent of businesses that close shop do so with a positive balance. And if you can make it as a businessman, more power to you, it means you can live better than most of your customers. -
Learn rollerblading, lift weights, bowl, play tennis or basketball
When you exercise, you burn up fat and add muscle mass to your body. Both make you fitter, thinner and happier. -
Continue your education
The brain has been found to be much like a muscle in that exercising it will keep it active, while running it on long-learned information will cause it to fall apart. Continued education is one way to keep your mind healthy and active.Surely there must be something you've always wanted to learn about or read but never had the time for. Maybe now you'll have the time and focus to learn or read that item you've always wanted to do.
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Do something artistic, learn a hobby, learn a craft
I've always believed that anything worth doing is worth doing atrociously. That means you'll end up falling on your face, doing stuff that's better left undone. Do it anyway, for the love of thedoing -- and if you practice it enough, you might find yourself improving. -
Learn HTML, make a web page
There's over 100 free web page sites in cyberspace (I'm using one right now), a few free email sites, hundreds of books offering to teach HTML, lots of web sites to help you with the details, programs with varying forms of ease, and scanners are getting cheap. Some people actually make a living doing HTML, and with today's programs one can put up web pages without much work.
From that list, there should be enough to work on that will improve both you and your life. Not only that, but you'll slowly work your way back into the good graces of your family and friends, and won't have to spend your way into the poorhouse for success.
Comments
You're mighty welcome. Glad you approve.
You could just rename this post...
"Things To Do With Your Life Other Than Being an Amway/Quixtar Critic"
...and the list would be just as relevant.
So what is the point? None. He makes no significant point, yet you especially enjoyed it enough to post it here.
Chris wrote: "Things To Do With Your Life Other Than Being an Amway/Quixtar Critic"
> Cost of being IBO, 300 PV + seminar (every 2 months) + Tapes + books + opens + gas = $1000 / month range.
Time required being an IBO = 20 hours a week.
Time required being a critic = Few minutes / day.
Cost required being a critic: Priceless.
Odds of becomming financially free from Quixtar, you tell me chris?
Nice response Mo, I love priceless jokes.
It does not cost 300pv to be an IBO. You just shop for things you consume, many of which you were already buying, and you sell to members/clients for personal volume. My personal volume is well over 300pv and I can achieve it by spending $0 personally.
Shopping can hardly be counted as a business expense. People were shopping before they were IBO's. So you would have to count your shopping expenses as a critic for that to be fair.
And I have never heard it taught to shop 300pv yourself. The most I have heard was try to shop 100pv, and try to do 200pv in member client volume to reach 300pv.
Many critics spend hours each day to manage their blogs and read up and comment on other blogs. A few minutes a day is an understatement, just like your time required to be an IBO is overstated.
The word required is not accurate. Time involvement is optional and varies. You can spend 5 hours per week and build a bigger more successful business than someone spending 40 hours per week. Just like time involvement for critics varies as well.
I don't spend anywhere remotely close to $1000 per month on my overhead for all business expenses. That is a major exaggeration. Some people might spend that much on business expenses but that is not normal.
There is currently nobody in my entire organization that I know of that spends that in monthly overhead, and if they have, this is not consistent.
You also left out that IBO's generate income. It costs me nothing to be an IBO because my income is more than my expenses. Now that is priceless.
> "Odds of becoming financially free from Quixtar, you tell me chris?"
What are the odds of becoming financially free with anything? And what opportunity is out there for the average joe to be able to attain this goal? My upline Emerald is financially free in my opinion, and he didn't have any special skills. He is an average Joe. Same with my upline Diamond. They have the same plan I have.
What are the odds of being financially free as a Quixtar critic, you tell me Mo?
For any former Quixtar IBO, this post has personal meanings.
For me:
1. How many meeting did I want to sleep through? And maybe did.
2. I think my baby sitters spent more time with my kids than I did.
3. Vacation? That was the time between the end of the Friday night session and the beginning of the Saturday session.
4. I thought it was my own business. Key Word - THOUGHT.
5. Excersise. I keep meaning to do that.
6. I remember when my upline told me I should quit school like he did. Right.
7. I stopped doing the things I loved. Didn't want to be "distracted."
8. I don't really care for programming.
Kendall,
Why did you join the business in the first place? What did you want to achieve that you couldn't achieve doing what you were currently doing? Or that you thought Q was your best option?
Why does anyone "join"? Because they were either mislead, or manipulated.
Chris said:
"You can spend 5 hours per week and build a bigger more successful business than someone spending 40 hours per week."
You are full of bull$hit, and reveal that you are NOT a real "successful IBO".
AND don't you DARE bring up the point about kids, Chris.
ALL IBO's I ever knew ( and I wasted 20 years in the business ) spent way less time with their children than their "9-5" counterparts except for the tiny tiny percentage of kingpins. AND they ususally were leaving their kids a lot too.
When we did have time with out kids, it was constantly spent thinking - not about them - but about "who we could meet" for the business.
Our family life is 500% better now.
I work from home and make almost 10 times per month what we made THE MONTH WE WENT SILVER BY SELLING GIFT ALBUMNS (and we made a lot that month!).
We are so much happier as a family.
As far as I'm concerned - and I know I'm not alone in this feeling - you are NOT an IBO, chris (if that's really your name) - you are a paid plant.
sorry - correction
I make 10 per year what I would have made if my Quixtar income from that month was annualized.
my anger got the best of my fingers there.
Glad to see you are neutral as always Eric.
Mike makes an interesting point; the majority of people do not join Quixtar / Amway. They are recruited.
Chris: Please tell me: I have a feeling that either you are not real, or u are not truthful. Are you an IBO or a plant? $1000 / month is very moderate number. My sponsor was above than that. (its Canadian if that helps) System cost alone (couple stay, seminar ticket, travel, tapes, books) mounts and when you subtract Quixtar shopping - Wal-Mart shopping, different is huge. Because of 300 PV push, ppl end up buying vitamins and other crap they don't use otherwise. You are in come ideal LOS in la la land. I know folks in BWW, TOD, WWDB, whom per month expense was huge. Some of them were in dateline and their expense were 35,000 for 5 years on system alone. Combine the products it was above $80,000 USD in 5 years. That could be me if I continue. I lost $10,000 in one year.
Time thing is ... unbelievable. 5 hours /week? its open + quest alone. A person can go anywhere by just attending open and Quest? You are contradicting a lot of Q speakers here.
IBOs who generate income because their downline is spending this much $. How else they make money? I heard Bill Britt saying “This business is a negative pyramid and that’s how Free Enterprise work” I heard Kumar saying in a tape, “Yes it is a pyramid and I sit on top of it”.
IBOs are said many things at different phases. This phase where you just ‘buy what you need’ is a starter phase. In BWW, all open say just buy what you need, 100 PV. Once you plugged in, 300 PV is a MUST. Whether you retail or not.
I don't think any body become critic to be financially free. Nice argument!
What is financially free? Lets say a millionaire. I gave you a moderate dream before, additional $500 / month. Now a big dream, millionaire.
4-6 % households in North America are Millionaire.
less than 0.046% of Quixtar are Millionaire. Among the ACTIVE IBOs.
So there you go, where are you better off?
What is the income of your Emerald after expenses? How many emeralds are in Quixtar? How many are the active IBOs, based on these numbers a person can decide what are his odds of becoming an emerald. I'll research and post them on next post.
Please tell me Chris, which LOS you are in or you are talking about?
Qblog,
I'm beginning to believe that YOU are CHRIS to bring more stimulating debate into your website. Chris' responses just seem to idealistic to be taken seriously.
I've exposed your fraud.
Kidding, man.
Great post. I think this was the most productive post I've seen. Good stuff. Keep up the good work.
Chris:
You just got taken to task my Imran. Before you spew off another 3 page response, just face facts and get on with your life. The sooner you snap out of your hypnosis, the better!
Chris,
I respect your thoughts here. I truly do. I'm just blown away by your positive experiences with Quixtar because mine was terrible, and so were many others. The critics aren't speaking out of turn when they relay that there's problems. They're speaking of what they witnessed *first hand*. We didn't just drop out of the sky to make "real IBOs" misrable. We WERE real IBOs at one time, and it seems you're failing to understand that point.
I became involved thinking it was 2 - 5 hours a week. The reality was, our upline called every day to ask us to come to a meeting, a get together, a covered dish, a basketball game, whatever. The upline said it was optional, but when we would try to decline the first thing said was, "well, if you're not SERIOUS about this, I guess I can't help you." Sometime this was followed by a time period when the upline refused to answer questions because we didn't attend that basketball game with the team so obviously we aren't serious therefore we were put in a position of "proving" we were serious until we could get questions answered. You only got one shot at the answer, too. If the upline answered with something that didn't quite make sense and we sought clarification, we were told we didn't have faith or that "the facts don't count."
Then there's the money. If I didn't buy a motivational CD because I needed to pay an electric bill, I was advised to buy the CD instead. If I chose to pay the electric bill, then I was subjected to the same drivel about being a "broke loser forever" with that thinking or even accused of not taking my business seriously. Nevermind my credit is my business, too.
I'm not alone on this. When you have so much belittling and negative coming from your downline all in the "we love you" guise for over a year in my case, yeah, I'm bitter. I don't trust people immediately with the information they say (either side, by the way).
I'm glad you've had success. I don't blame you for shouting it from the mountains if it's as good as you say. If I had experiences like yours, then yeah, I'd still be in.
With that said, first, thanks for making this place an interesting debate and second, what Line of Sponsorship are you in? If there's a group at all that isn't fleecing their downline for money through the endless guilt trips, I'd love to know.
Thanks.
Chris:
You won't find much support on this blog unless you take a negative Quixtar, positive Passport, position.
Want to know why? Go to this site for some answers.
http://qrush_quixtar_blog.blogspot.com/
Nice. This blog must have arrived at some lofty status in the Quixtar realm if it's getting comment spam from the Qrush faction.
My ego is getting too large. I need a suitcase to lug it around in now. Anyone got connections at Samsonite?
Chris Fan:
You're ridiculous. I wouldn't touch Passport with a ten foot pole. This blog is NOT about passport, or Bo Short. I could give two rips about him. I don't need HIS experiences to make me negative on Quixtar. My OWN will do quite nicely, thank you. As for Qrush,
qrush hides his identity, Qblog does not. So who should we believe???
Imanewme:
you're spot on, dude. i'd like to know what line of sponsorship Chris is in, myself. not any I've ever heard of.
Chris said:
You just shop for things you consume, many of which you were already buying, ...
Of course $75 vitamins to replace the vitamins you never took before... or the 2 cases of XS to replace the "energy drinks" you never drink before. The multiple bottles of other vitamin supplements you take that you never took before.... or is that just my wife doing that? Or the 4 months of those expensive vitamins she has in the cabinet, or the cases of snacks and food stuff that is more expensive in the case from Quixtar than is at the local store. All these boxes stacked up in the living room cause we don't have a bomb shelter to put it all in...cause that's what it looks like it's for.
How hard is is to get 100pv buying vitamins, XS and other stuff they recommend you start buying....vs actually replacing items you would buy. The case of toilet paper she bought one month, and it taking many months to go through is crap. no pun intended. Yet you pay a premium, and at such quantity you don't need to buy any more for a long time... now look for something else to make you 100. Which TEAM quotes as 150, even though they have the lowest avg PV per person at around 15PV vs Quixtar's published avg of around 30PV. And Orrin wants to have 1 million people in his line? Quixtar better get a million first.
"Critics make me better" - Orrin Woodward, May 2004 Function
Hell, I must be doing wonderful things to him then. Why is he suing Scott again?
"I promise you we will get better." - Orrin Woodward, May 2004 Function
Guess he must have been counting on the critics.
'When you're a Diamond, life is all Saturdays and one Sunday anyway." - Orrin Woodward, May 2004 Function
Saturdays to most people are days off... is he implying he does NO WORK 6 days a week? I'll bet his schedule is busier than anyone's regular job.
"I would suggest to any new IBO to just begin converting over your everyday needs. Work yourself up to 100 PV, then you’ll see that 150 is no big deal, soon you’ll realize that 200-300 PV is just a drop in the bucket. A household consumes a lot of stuff – if you’re looking for it. " - Shari Pillsbury - Team Emerald. August 2002
Chris,
A lot of people wonder what line of spnsorship you are in. Would you be willing to pass on this information? This would not allow us to see your personal info, but it would at least let us determine why your outlook is so different from all of us.
I'm almost certain you are in the Yager line, and I'm assuming you are with Chuck G.....this is one line I'm not too familiar with, although I have heard a few of his tapes. I could at least say "Hey...maybe it is a bit different over there". However, if you mention another LOS, then perhaps I could relate a bit better and say...yes, some of the things he is saying are true and some are not valid to me.
I'm just asking so that I, as well as many others, can get some perspective.
Would you be willing to accomodate the request?
"With that said, first, thanks for making this place an interesting debate and second, what Line of Sponsorship are you in? If there's a group at all that isn't fleecing their downline for money through the endless guilt trips, I'd love to know.
Thanks.
Posted by: imanewme at November 5, 2004 01:49 PM "
The only time my sponsor lays a guilt trip on me, is when I tell him I'm sitting at the computer smoking. He says that 4 bucks a day I spend on cigarettes should be put in a savings account for investment later on.
He's right of course.
But in my association with him, I never was guilted into buying a single tape or book. Oh yeah, that's right..our LOS doesn't sell those things.
Chris if you really are an IBO, I commend you for your efforts to try and defend one of the biggest pyramids in the world. It sure isn't easy to do.
With that said: Do you realize your actually helping more people discover one of the biggest frauds in history?
Your just inviting more on more of those dreaded "Negative"(Love that word) people to their defense.
The only people on this site who EVER post anything extremely positive about Quixtar or simply bashes Critics (still there QRush?) are people who are brainwashed into the "SYSTEM" OR are trying to dissolve any negative information on the web.
Even when former IBOs give their horrifying true stories about losing tons of money and many years of their life in this scam, you still try and justify it just like the kingpins do.
Do I think Quixtar and the systems are 100% Negative. NO! There are actually many things about the system that can help you out in life.
But guess what? Almost nothing they teach will actually help you in the business. All the hype and motivation is geared towards taking advantage of people.
By all means keep posting and hang around. As you long as you don't start generating fake posts, you bring more atmosphere into this place.
Hey Chris:
Glad you liked the posting. Glad you noticed it had nothing directly to do with Amway.
I put each of the points up for a reason. Some are put up from observation, some from actual doing; but all are things I approve of, for various reasons:
1) Sleep: Lots of people have been running low on sleep. I know that on my end, if I run on less than six hours of sleep a night, I get depressed and actually have suicidal thoughts. Plus I find my body drifts readily onto ten hours of sleep a night. Good for you for being able to run on 6 -- I envy you for that.
2) I remember when I asked a friend of mine who was in Amway at the time about the time he spent with his kids. He talked about "quality time" vs "quantity time" I did not like that. Interesting thing to note: many women who are able to quit their jobs and spend time with their children are doing so; enough to disturbe many feminists who fought for women having careers.
3) Does every vacation have to be bigger and better? I could take you on a two-day trip through Iowa and you'd find more interesting, historical and educational stuff than from a six day Disneyworld vacation.
4) The stats stand for themselves. My family's experiences stand for themselves. And none of that profit was made off of Amway/Quixtar or any other MLM system.
5 & 6) Should be obvious.
7) I've heard too many people say "I once did stuff until I realized I sucked at it." that's my reaction to that.
8) A bit specific, more a poke at my critics.
As for the point that some of this stuff is about "shrinking dreams and settling for less," I see no problem with that. In fact, this constant driving for "more, more, more" is what's driving people into bankrupcy, divorce and other things. If people did less striving and more living, I believe you'd see happier people, happier children and a more cohesive society. Sometimes it's better to say "let's see what we can do" than "let's see what we want to do, then work full-time towards it."
Ok guys, I made attempts to respond to everybody in one post. So it is the size of Erics new book, so enjoy the read. I am busy for the rest of the night and spending time with friends tomorrow. So I won't be quick on any responses.
The following are just thoughts and answers and some new questions. I don't have time to reread what I wrote, so there may be mistakes. I hope this helps those both for and against this biz opp.
--
"The average "active" IBO is losing money after expenses".
> False, there is no statistic to back that up. There is just as much proof to sugggest that the average "active" IBO is MAKING money, after expenses. I have even seen lawdawg and Ty and others make comments like this. Show me a valid statistic that proves what the "active" IBO's expenses are that you are able to make this claim.
I don't have exact figures but here are some estimates.
About 75% of people that currently registered in my organization would be considered "active" according to Quxtar's description. I would guess this is a very high ratio compared to most teams.
Out of that 75%, about 40% plug into the standing order system. I am not sure if this is high or not. Again, I assume it is probably on the high end based on what I have seen in other groups.
Now any math wiz critics want to do the math? In my organization around 30% of total IBO's have system overhead costs, which average around $150/mo, but 75% are considered "active" according to Quixtar.
So why do critics assume that every "active" IBO has monthly system expenses. Is there really an organization that has such a high success rate at getting IBO's plugged into standing order tools?
According to Quixtar's average income figures, it leans more towards showing that IBO's are actually making money each month after expenses. There is more proof towards this direction than against it. I have heard people say that only 10% of their group plugs into standing order tools.
What would you critics say is your best guess as to what percentage of "total" Quixtar-affiliated IBO's actually plug into standing order tools and have monthly overhead over $100 to run their biz? Be realistic please.
In my group, tools are optional, and many people choose that option. I still work with them, but I end up having to repeat so much information that I learned from the same weekly CD that they could be getting. And even more from the same seminar they could be attending.
So they are not getting first hand information, and they have to wait for it, and by the time they get it, it is missing several vital keys that they could have benefited from. Ever play the "telephone" game in school?
So my hope is that eventually they come around and learn to plug into the training system. I see the ones on the system having much greater success than the ones who are not plugged in.
> I will not name my line of affiliation so that this group of critics can make it the focus of their criticism. They will dig up any negativity they can so that they can say that even my organization doesn't meet their standards.
Well I don't care if it does or doesn't either way, so I am choosing to keep that information private. I hope you reasonable critics can respect that. I know the others will not accept that answer.
Plus, by naming our group after talking about the benefits on here would be borderline advertising and it could potentially attract IBO's from other LOS's, and I don't want to take away from their team or opportunity.
By the way, Chuck G is one of my favorite speakers when he comes out on CD's, and yes I am in the Yager system.
I have never been pressured by my upline to buy anything, or do anything, instead they have been very instrumental in my success and have been there for me for guidance and mentorship.
If someone on my team couldn't afford BSM's, I have always recommended that they don't buy them until they have a financial game plan in place to be able to support their business.
One of these game plans might be to focus solely on retail sales to generate some up-front income. But more than likely it would be to track where they spend their money for a month or two, and then analyze where their priorities are financially.
Many times, it just might not be right timing for them to start their own business. So maybe down the road they will be in a better position to do so.
Roger, I do admire your debating style, although we disagree completely. When I first got started I just redirected over a little shopping, things that I needed for my house. No products that I wasn't already getting, except for the initial product package IBO's can get with registration, but that was for advertising purposes.
I was never pressured to buy any of these products from my upline. A couple times when I was new I felt that I might have pressured a couple people to buy things, but I have apologized since then, and we are on great terms as business partners. Mistakes are sometimes necessary to learn and grow. They suck though.
My experiences are much different than most of the critics here, but I don't doubt that all their experiences are real. I have gained some insight from the fair critics on this blog. I am implementing new techniques in my group weekly that help keep my organization tight and following rules, and something to be proud of.
No matter who you are, people can find your faults and exploit them. My goal is to aim to be a leader who people don't want to exploit but instead think highly of.
Integrity, Honesty, Respect, Leadership.
There is no way to score 100% with critics in these areas, but I hope to get close in the future as I build my organization.
I am on the record on this blog to stating that I am not a plant meaning that nobody has suggested to me to affiliate myself with this blog in any way.
This was all my decision and my upline does not even know about it. I felt I could handle the negative perspective without losing focus on my business at the same time, and I am glad I was right.
My motives are simple. To gain insight from the critics. To sharpen my rebuttal skills. To be a positive voice for IBO's. To get productive ideas on how I can avoid much of the negative issues that come up in a business. To add perspective and sometimes challenge statements being made that I don't feel are accurate. To give readers a more balanced point of view.
Many IBO's can't stay focused while absorbing negative views at the same time. They get distracted easily and put their business on hold. Then that causes them to be stagnant, and by the time they are ready to move on, they have lost momentum. This is the same with many businesses, not just MLM.
This is another reason why CD's are so important. The help keep IBO's motivated and thinking positively about their business during the week. It is easy to for a week or 2 to slip by and you show up at the hotel meeting with no new prospect, and no work done during the week. I am speaking from experience on this.
Plus the CD's contain wisdom from those that have been where we are now. Almost every single week I learn new principles that will save me from making huge mistakes. How much are those principles worth?
Just today I learned from a CD a technique in communication that I have been doing wrong with some IBO's for several months now. This technique alone I would have paid $100 for last year. It has cost me more than that through my mistakes.
Some principles I have learned are priceless. I have become a better man.
If it weren't for the BSM's, I would not be where I am today. I make more money in my business now because of the BSM's. I am a better person today because of them.
I am a more loving, caring individual. You should have seen me before the BSM's. I only cared about myself. Pretty pathetic huh. I had no relationship/marriage skills, I had a cussing problem, and I was often rude to people and thought that showing love made me weak.
Because I became an IBO, my life is much better. I am taking all of december off as well as part of november. No meetings, no stp's, just time with family/vacation.
I will probably bring my laptop because I love learning new things and the internet is one of the greatest resources for that.
I will probably just utilize my voicemail and reply to emails as far as my business goes. And I will get paid the entire time I am gone. This is exciting for me.
I would not be in this position if it wasn't for what I learned from the BSM's/upline mentorship.
As far as profitability/expenses goes. I work with my team to try to get them as profitable as possible as soon as possible.
This means, lower investments up front, but then as their business grows, reinvest profits into tools to support the growth.
I learned this from a very successful business owner not affiliated with Quixtar. Who by the way gave me his opinion, and he things highly of the company and business model.
Getting profitable is easy depending on how you structure the business. There are sometimes even benefits of not being profitable right off the bat, like the way that TEAM structures their groups.
Some people say overhead for a somewhat active IBO plugged into BSM's is $150/mo, and some say $300. I think the $1000/mo. figure is outrageous, unless they are developing out of town groups, and lots of travel is included.
Counting personal product shopping costs is not fair. If you do that because you think the products cost more, then you would need to do a comparison from a normal grocery store and the difference in cost could potentially be considered as an extra expense. But people were shopping well before the business.
I don't teach anybody to shop 300pv themselves. Unless they are doing very well financially and want to. In that case, go ahead. I wouldn't stop someone from shopping at Nordstroms just because they could get it cheaper at target/walmart.
By the way, I still shop at Costco. I get alot of my food items there. And I shop at the local grocery store. I get my perishables there.
But I still do over 300pv personally and there are many months where I do over 1000pv, where I only shop around 100pv of it. How is this possible? (Members + Clients). Who would have thought.
So shopping aside, let's say for sake of example that an IBO has $250 in monthly overhead. If that IBO does 300personal volume, and just registers 3 frontline and helps them do 300personal volume, then they generate enough income to cover their expenses.
In our organization, there are many who have achieved this. Many of them in their first couple of months.
In that scenario, 1 out of 4 are profitable. Of course this is only counting IBO's who actually are doing something. But any other statistic doesn't make sense because If all 4 IBO's did nothing, why would I even add them to a statistic for success rates?
I would pool out of the group of IBO's who were all doing at least a minimum in activity/training/mentorship. That is only fair in my eyes.
When I show the plan, not everyone wants to do the business, and I am very picky about who I am willing to start up. I have made too many mistakes at starting up people who just quit the next day. So I pre-qualify them more to save us both time and money.
Then once I get to know them to a point where I feel it is worth my time/money/energy investment in them, then we take the next step.
I have turned down many people, and have even referred people to other solutions I thought would help them achieve their dreams better.
For instance, I recently helped a friend set up a very profitable Google Adsense campaign because he had web skills, and was doing nothing month after month in his business, so I told him instead of losing money, why don't you do something you will actually be motivated to do. And so I helped steer him that direction.
I believe in helping people out, and sometimes this is volunteer charity work, or tough love, or sending someone out on their own. Each situation is different, and you have to play it by ear.
I am sorry for the long response, but I am visiting friends tonight and tomorrow, so I wanted to share views since I won't be on until Sat or Sun.
My point is that many critics like some aspects of the business. Many have said these aspects have been life changing. But then another side of the business turned them off. I believe that this opportunity can help people as it has helped me.
I don't want to see it taken away, I want to see it improved. I feel bad that many of you had bad experiences and we can't erase them. But as an IBO, I can try my best to ensure that these experiences don't happen to people in my organization.
I hope that you critics can see that I have a genuine interest in achieving the same goals that many of you do. Once we realize this, there is opportunity to work together to help more people.
--
No Diamond - I am not sure if your latest post was a compliment, but if it was, thank you.
I disagree with you that the system doesn't teach you about business. I have found the opposite to be true. I guess it comes down to the personality style. The system is definitely not geared enough towards analytical people, I will give you that.
But the majority of people in my organization like the story tapes more, and a few like me also enjoy the detailed analytical tapes when they are available.
Also I kind of agree with you in a way. By contributing to this blog, we are all adding to the success of it, and contributing to the original content on all of it's pages. This is a direction that the search engines will be favoring more and more in the future, thus we are supporting this blog to stay on top of the search results.
So for me to post here is adding to this site being listed high, and this blog is currently dominated by negative views. That could change, but if an IBO read this today, they would likely quit their business.
So I know this is a tough situation I am in, but they would likely quit after reading this material even if I didn't post here, so at least they can now hear some additional perspective.
Thanks to all the other pro-quixtar IBO's that have taken time to contribute to this blog.
--
Last note here to Don.
I think all the things you named are good. So I am in agreement with them. We are also in agreement that they are not directly intended towards Amway distributors, although the title of the article would suggest otherwise.
It is just that, the non-IBO families that I know and see actually spend less time with their families than the IBO's I know and see. The IBO's spend a period of time on their business to earn more time with their kids. The kids I meet love the business and have great things to say about it.
The principles one can learn from the business can help make them a better parent. I know that I have learned priceless principles in this category. Because of the BSM's, I can honestly say that I am better off, and let's just say that I am glad I am not a parent with my old way of thinking :)
BTW: There is a very special 10year old girl in my life who would get much more out of a disney world trip than the one you mentioned, but I agree that they would both be great.
As far as people wanting more, I believe that this is fine. It depends on what their motives are. Greed, Lust, Adultery, etc, are all desires of not being fine with what they have. But there are many great goals that people have to improve their lives, and when the priorites are right, I wish them the best success.
Your last point about a happier society I agree with. The thing is that I see this business as a means to move towards that direction. There is a major focus on bringing families together. Getting back into a conservative mindstate. Full-time moms, full-time dads. Bringing family units back together.
I have several testimonials of marriages that have improved greatly improved because of their exposure to the system. I think that the positive marriage testimonials far outweight the negative ones.
So I have seen this business help improve peoples lives, whether or not they achieve financial success. But the critics are the first ones to leave that out.
They say things like business is business and the goal of business is to make money.
Then in the same breath they criticize people that are just focused on making money, saying that they have the wrong priorities.
You're a dedicated devil, Chris, and I mean that as a compliment.
I'm glad you took the time to type that dissertation because for me, it made you more REAL... you feel me?
I can respect your not sharing your particular LOS, knowing Yager line is enough for me, anyway. I was fishing for something a little closer like TOD, BWW, etc and the like, but Yager will do. I'll take it.
Again, congratulations on your success. You should be thankful for your positive experiences, because belive me, you're in a minority in my world.
We'll just have to agree that we disagree that Quixtar's a great opportunity. For you it was a great opportunity. For me it was financial, spiritual, and social disaster. I can't in good faith send anyone I know into that situation.
But I do respect what you're saying. Keep shareing, by all means. When you first started posting I kind of thought you were a jerk... but the more you post, the more I see I may have been mistaken in that assessment. I still think Quixtar sucks, but now I don't think you suck, too. Where Quixtar was your blessing it was my curse. That's the stalemate we're at right now and I can live with that.
Anyway, after a speech like that, I didn't think it would be right not to respond.
Would you at least consider joining the forum for longer discussions? Hey, we critics here are a hard audience, and I think you just might be up for the challenge. Again, I mean that in a true compliment, not one with any sarcasm attached.
Thanks.
Imanewme,
Very nice post commending Chris.
What Chris does not care to consider and admit to is the major challenges with this business. Everything is Hunky Dory!!! Take a look at some of the major kingpins and their escapades and you have to wonder who IBO's are led by:
Storms: Ponzi Scheme allegations
Team In Focus: Successful IBO Diamonds kicked out
Setzer: Sues the corp
Hart, Stewart: Lawsuits galore against former Diamond friends
Lorenz: challenges with former friends
Yager: have you ever heard him speak? very offensive (named in a number of lawsuits)
Harteis: former IBOAI president, who is brought up in Scheibeler's book
Britt: Dateline expose
Short: former diamond who comes clean with what really goes on in the business
Haugen: connected to P&G lawsuits
and the list goes on......
Doesn't all of this raise an eyebrow? Diamonds and above demand respect...but for what? Their accomplishments?
But Chris' organization is excellent with everyone making money? Nome of the challenges mentioned above?
Kind of makes you wonder.
Chris has never let the facts get in the way of his "vision". Presenting the truth only makes us critics, "dreamstealers".
What a croc! Paddle that canoe Chris. Your days in the 5-year plan are numbered...I hope.
Alright Chris, thanks for the reply, u actually did not answered all of the questions, but it's ok. There were LOTs.
Welcome to a critic world, u spend as much time as an average critics does don' you ;) Some critic comment once in a month, other are more frequent.
Congrates on your success, although I don't know if you have. I just hope that your success in not based on loss of money of your downline as that’s how Quixtar works. I'm inclined to assume otherwise just like I am inclined to assume 2 + 2 = 4. Mathematics anyone?
Regarding tools. Wow Chris, you are amazing. So you are saying that tools and teachings are new every time??? They don't have same old rallies and stuff and actually have something new? 90% of stuff is repeated.
By the way here is an idea, if tools are THAT good, why not they loan them to IBOs and charge them for all the tools @$6.0 once they are diamond? And if some one decides to quit, take all tools back? Charge $0.5 for the one that are not returned? (Production cost)
Some QBO gave an example of self-help books and how they are not making every one successful. That was one stupid fella. I told him how I studied in college and purchase used book and sold them back. And isn’t Library great!! And online mp3s? Q should have done mp3s 2 years ago. Napster did it, why Quixtar is so stupid on web? Or are they stupid or letting kingpins make money on tools? Answer: Both: Quixtar.com US template is still broken. YUCK!
But you are reading Eric's book. Fired um, Awsome, go CAM! I'm on page 104.
Have a great weekend. Don't get drunk by XS ;)
Chris, nice responses. Again, you want verification of facts but cannot do it yourself.
You have a better chance of being successful OUTSIDE Quixtar than in it.
BTW, where are the items you said you'd get back to me on?
I wouldn't care, but since you ask for verification......
I do not see how the heck you could be all you say you are in the bus.
1) Your upline wouldn't allow it, and if they did find out you'd be crucified.
2) You would not feel the need to defend it, if you were that plugged in.
3) You refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings (again, your prices are ridiculously high) on your business.
I hope you have a great vacation. Where you off to?
Take care
Chris,
I'd love for you to give 3 reasons why the mighty Q will grow dramatically in the next 5-10 years, as you suggested it would.
I heard the same thing 5 years ago, at the launch of Q and I've seen very little to substantiate that hype. Tell me what you see, if you would be so kind as to oblige
Truthseeker wrote: "I'd love for you to give 3 reasons why the mighty Q will grow dramatically in the next 5-10 years, as you suggested it would."
1) Quixtar is putting great focus on products that are easier to sell and advertise. For example, the sports nutrition line. While LOC and SA8 might be awesome products with great benefits, it is just not realistic to carry them around to sample. XS energy drinks, protein bars, shakes, etc. are all much easier to have on hand and sample. The packaging is more current and this makes the appeal much stronger to IBO's. This definitely positions Quixtar to do well from a product standpoint.
2) LOS groups are starting to put more of a focus on depth, and implementing strategies that focus on higher IBO/member retention rates, and lower annual turnover. Depth helps to secure a business and the IBO gets more experience so that when they go wide, they are in more of a position to start their new legs up correctly, so overall less people quit, more get started right. Depth grows the numbers much faster so we will see the number of total North American IBO's go over 1 million very quickly as more groups go this direction.
3) The IBO compensation plan is starting to reward depth more than ever. This means that more money is in the plan for levels like Emerald, so IBO's don't have to "spin plates" in order to get the bigger bonuses. There are new growth bonuses for helping downline achieve higher pin levels, and you can now qualify at the big pin levels based on FAA points, not just your number of legs. This means that big pin IBO's can get rewarded for securing their business, so we will see more founders pins, and less people moving backwards.
Those are just a few reasons, but there are obviously many more. The opportunity is very appealing today, especially to the younger market. Age 21-35 is one of the fastest growing segments of IBO's, and compared to Amway, Quixtar is attracting a much younger, energetic, new audience. This will have a major role in growth over the next several years.
As these younger adults become successful, they will energize a new wave of success and will be living testimonials of the possibility of early retirement. This is very exciting and I am honored to be a part of this growth.
I hope that helped answer those questions :)
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Rocket, I'm visiting family nationwide for the holidays. My upline has always taught me that Family should come first over business, and that the balance of faith & family in your life will make you more successful in your business. I absolutely believe that. They have no problem that I am taking time off a few events to do some traveling.
In fact, it is encouraged, especially if you have a solid growing business. It actually motivates people to see that the business provides time. If I was always working, then it would show that the business is just another job. So vacationing is becoming my new hobby :)
Chris:
That's it, I'm sold! Where do I sign up?
I love to see a man with a plan. He may not have a roadmap, nor a projected (quantitative goal), but by-golly, he has a plan!
I remember the LAST guy with a plan and no map -- his name was John Kerry.....
Depth:
So Chris, by depth you mean stacking?
Emerald bonus:
And how exactly emeralds bonus will be increased? PV vs $ is high now so there could be fewer emeralds thus the existing ones will have mo $$$? Or just simply increase the prices resulting mo dough for every one?
Quixtar keeps sending me catalogues; my dbo number expired last year. Increase in prices are kinda consistent. Always high :)
Finish Merchants of Deception. Chris: Do you know who this 'Zack' guy is?
Chris,
"1) Quixtar is putting great focus on products that are easier to sell and advertise. For example, the sports nutrition line...... This definitely positions Quixtar to do well from a product standpoint."
Q is putting the focus on these products because health and wellness is an emerging trend. With shipping costs, these products are not overly competitive nor are they of greater quality than many other brands. However, this is one of the ways in which Q has mustered some growth over the past 5 years....without these products, they would have shrunk. (Conclusion...Q will not grow dramatically as a result of this)
"2) LOS groups are starting to put more of a focus on depth, and implementing strategies that focus on higher IBO/member retention rates, and lower annual turnover."
This benefits the LOS kingpins by keeping them in. It does little for PV as proven by the fact that TOD has some of the lowest average PV totals around. (Conclusion....this will not help them grow either)
"3. The IBO compensation plan is starting to reward depth more than ever. "
The IBO compensation plan is not rewarding depth more than ever. The compensation has not changed dramatically in the past 5 years, nor have they added bonus money to reward further depth. In fact, Platinums building with the depth model of 1 huge leg, and a side volume that lets them qualify for bigger bonuses, will not make a lot of money, overall.(a lot less than what an "average" platinum willl make)
I still have seen no evidence of significant growth, which means a lot of groups are losing, to the point of eventually dropping out. My prediction...Q will drop in annual revenues in 5 years, and then begin to descend more rapidly, to the point of being similar to all other MLM's. Only time will tell.
df Wrote: I remember the LAST guy with a plan and no map -- his name was John Kerry.....
This put a big smile on my face, very funny indeed!
Chris A:
Thanks, I do my best to please. I don't think plain old Chris is gonna like it too much. Oh well.
Why would I not like it DF? Jokes are always funny. I agree that John Kerry didn't have a road map :) He also didn't have Karl Rove!
I know that you disagree with me, no matter what I say, so it does not surprise me when you say things. No problem. We all have our opinions.
Truthseeker, we obviously see things differently. We could go back and forth all day talking about issues that we disagree and why. I don't mind that you disagree with me, and that we have different visions for the future of Quixtar.
We both agree however that only time will tell us right.
By the way, what source do you have for the average TOD pv levels? What is that current statistic you keep quoting? If you have some information about that team and their depth strategy, why don't you post it? Like what is their annual turnover rate compared to corp? What is their growth like? Things like that. The only things I have heard have been very very good about that team.
Mo, I am not sure what you mean by stacking. I was under the impression that stacking was where one person is registered under another without knowing about it. But that if their is a pre-existing relationship or similar standards, then it is not stacking. I am not in TOD, so I am not exact on their strategy, but when I say depth, I mean driving legs down legally within Quixtar guidelines of course.
By the way, the IBO compensation plan has changed significantly over the last 5 years. New emerald growth bonuses, new founders pin bonuses, new leg qualification credits, etc. This all benefits depth. This is what I meant.
Chris, you asked Truthseeker for facts.
Where are yours?
Still waiting patiently. Again, you seem eager to hear sources of info by people you feel are spouting off, and yet I've yet to get anything verified by you.
In Canada, that's called hypocritical.
My dad always told me, "A leader would never ask someone to do something that he would never do himself".
Are you a leader Chris?
Hey Chris and Rocket,
Some of the material I picked up about TOD was derived from Larson's site. The other was from a friend in Quixtar who works with the lines of sponsorship. He played it politically correct by saying they are a respected and admired group that is growing, but like all corporate people, he gives partial info to make them look good. Only when I pried out PV stats did he give a more concrete figure. Regardless, one of the diamonds I had a chance to listen to mentioned a 36-37 average PV. Even with those totals, it does not fare well for IBO leaders, hence the drive to ask people to do 150 PV personally. Nevertheless, rather than being mired by being forced to come up with obscure facts that I can't get to, lets look at something else, a little more concrete:
Look at Q's record over the past 5 years. Minimal growth. The sales numbers are given every year. Again, I can only speculate, here, but this slight increase from year to year is most likely due to 3 key factors:
a) price inreases
b) greater acceptance of ditto delivery
c) new consumable products that have been pumped up like crazy.
Having said that, what is the real growth of Q, in terms of new members replacing people who drop out? No, I cannot give an exact turnover rate. You are asking me for info I have no way of verifying. But it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that based on the 3 things I mentioned above, there has been very little growth from a new IBO's perspective.
Yes, we could debate this back and forth for years, but the bottom line is this.....
You are saying that there will be spectacular growth in the next few years and you cannot really back it up with very much at all, other than sheer speculation.
I am saying that, based on the last 5 years, especially considering what I was told would happen with this venture, there has been very little growth, from a quantitative perspective to warrant the optimistic viewpoint you have come up with.
Was it the increase price of everything that has increased sales? Can you at least concede that this is possible?
Was it the new XS line that resulted in greater sales? Think about it. The product did not exist 2 years ago. If everyone bought the way they did 2 years ago, and added a hot new product...especially with a major promotion behind it, is it possible that growth is attributed almost solely to 1 product consumed by existing IBO's. What are your thoughts on this?
I would go as far as saying that, overall, the IBO base has shrunk.
By at least admitting to these possiblities you will seem more credible to me. You are not being negative by admitting this, you are admitting that you see things rationally.
Another question....if Q does not really advertise like conventional companies do, then why are their prices not lower.
The way I see it, their advertising dollar goes to IBO incentives/compensation plan. If that's the case, then shouldn't their coreline products be relatively similar in price to other products? You would argue that some are, and some are a better value....but come on now, paying 3 times more for a deoderant stick is ridiculous.
Sounds like more of the same robots are still in or getting in.
What a bunch of deception and lies.
Tell them the truth.
Most of the upper echelons derive their income from the "system" they want their hapless victims to plug into. The real money is made by pushing the system. Ask the diamonds what they pay for their tapes that they brow beat you into buying. Add the 150% markup they put on it and you see where they get their money. 150% is probably low! Ask them about their take on functions. Amway went from a business that was somewhat honorable in the beginning, to an outright scam!
Chris, thanks for not answering.
You're a gentleman and a scholar.
Rocket, I have told you I have requested that facts be checked on by the company and that they get back to me. I told you that when I receive an email from them that I will post that information. I am sorry that it is taking so long.
I got confirmed info of 35,000+ people registering per month, as well as a CR# to back that up. I would call that proof.
So anyone of us could do some simple math and realize that 35,000 x 12 = 420,000. Add that to what the company might have started with in the beginning of the year, and you can estimate a total number of distributors.
I am very quick to back myself up or offer explanation. So I do not see anything hypocritical of me asking others to do the same.
I said that "last I heard" there were around 750,000 - 800,000 registered consumers with Quixtar. You asked me to back that up, so I told you where I heard those figures, I called the company to verify them, and I explained the context in which I heard that information.
I provided what proof I could at the time, and then told you that I would work on getting more proof from the company. All this to back up a claim that I just said I "heard" something.
Here is a question for you Rocket. How many IBO's do you think renewed from the previous year to give Q the base of which to add on with new registrations every month this year?
How many IBO's/Members/Clients do you think there were in total for the 2003 fiscal year? Since you are quick to not believe me, I am curious to see what you think is more realistic and why.
--
Truthseeker,
Good response. By the way, I am not trying to "force" information out of you the way that critics "force" it out of me. This is not some kind of payback. I was asking you out of curiosity. I have seen many critics claim that TEAM has the lowest average PV of any group. I was wondering where that came from.
If your statistics are true, then it sounds like they are close to the average PV for all IBO's, which is around 30pv right? And that is if those stats are true. If I came back with an answer that I had a "friend" at Quixtar who gave me info, then the critics would beat me up over that source, saying that I was just lying.
I won't go that far with you, but you can now see that some critics just repeat what they hear/see on sites without researching it themselves. Or do all the critics have your same "friend" source at Q? Because I have heard a few critics mention that stat.
So next time you hear a critic tell an IBO that he just repeats stuff his upline tells him without doing research, then you can know that critics often repeat stuff they read on other critics sites and trust it regardless if there is proof or not. Just wanting to be fair here.
So as far as the rest of your comment, I can appreciate your pessimistic view of Q over the next several years. We definitely have different perspectives, but in the end does it matter what either of us think?
What if I am right, and Quixtar grows very well over the next 5 years? Then what? Will the critics applaud me on my visionary skills and positioning, or will they just say that Quixtar is able to scam more people and yada,yada,yada?
If you are right, does that mean that I should quit my business and look for something new because the company I advertise for might shrink over the next few years? That if the company isn't seeing growth every single year in a row, that it is not a good opportunity any more?
My point is that either way it really doesn't make much difference whether they grow heavily or not over the next 5 years. What matters is whether my business grows heavily over the next 5 years or not. That is what I have control over, and I can contribute to growth or decline for the overall company based on what I do.
I choose to contribute to the growth.
So, yes I agree with you on some of your analysis. I do think that the new product launches have accounted for growth, as well as increase prices/profit margins.
You said that "I would go as far as saying that, overall, the IBO base has shrunk."
Well, I think there is more evidence that it has grown, or at least equal speculation. And, overall, my IBO base has grown significantly.
I expect to go through dips from time to time, but all through the year my group grows every single month, and then at the end of the year some won't renew. Then you build off of that new base, which in my case, was much higher than the year before.
But if you are really focused on judging the opportunity based on the average of every LOS growth, then I would be interested in seeing some stats that show this decline in IBO's over the past 5 years as you suggest.
I have seen nothing but growth so it is hard to agree with your pessimistic speculation. There are higher annual sales figures and very high monthly registration rates. Is it possible that the company will continue growing over the next 5 years?
As for your last question: "if Q does not really advertise like conventional companies do, then why are their prices not lower." This is simple to explain.
As an IBO, I sell their products/services. I charge the price I want to determine. Their prices on the site are only suggested prices. So in effect, it is as if I am buying at a wholesale cost, and then selling at a retail cost that I determine.
So as an IBO, I can decide if I think my wholesale cost is good enough for me to be able to sell. If you don't think it is good enough, then don't sell! I personally think that the prices are fine, and I have no problem selling products to members/clients.
The critics make it seem like this is tough. I have not experienced anything tougher about selling these products than any other sales I have done in the past. So to me it seems normal. Some people buy, some people don't. Simple as that.
Some of my customers rave about how good the products are, and others just shop once per year for Christmas Gift/Incentives. Some have only bought 1 product once! But these results are very typical for any salesperson right? So why give IBO's such a hard time?
That being said, most IBO's choose not to mark-up the products past the suggested retail, so I am glad that Q has set a price structure that allows for a good deal of profit on each product.
Q may not advertise like traditional companies, but they still pay out around 30cents on the dollar to pay IBO's to advertise. So your not going to be able to compete with companies like Costco, because they don't advertise and don't pay IBO's to advertise either.
So they are able to lower the cost on many of their products, but there is no opportunity for you or I to make an income there. So if you want to make an income with Costco, you need to load up on inventory from them, and then sell that inventory through a traditional business model like a snack shack, or something like that. Hardly the opportunity most people are looking for.
Brian, I don't mind you having such a negative view of the company, but what do you mean when you say: "The real money is made by pushing the system".
Since when are these figures not considered real money?
These are the figures that IBO's are shown when they see the business plan. These figures are motivating enough to warrant time involvement in the opportunity. These are definitely "real money" figures.
On top of that, if the IBO chooses, they can profit share in other ventures with the Diamond. Why would that be a bad thing? If the Diamond creates materials to help people succeed, and the people buy them at a fair price, then why does it make a difference if the Diamond profits or not.
And wouldn't that be awesome if the Diamond would be willing to share those profits with the leaders in his organization? This could help add extra income incentive for them, to motivate them to continue actively building their business, as well as actively participating in the monthly events put on by the team. This way there is more experienced leadership at every event, which only stands to help the newest IBO have a better chance for success.
On top of that, what about situations where a retired IBO has one leg that is having trouble growing, but another that is having success. The retired IBO could plug that group into the other organization that is growing, and they could have a better chance for growth.
But why would the other organization want to take on the new responsibility of this? They wouldn't benefit from the pv/bv volume this new org would create.
So one benefit could be that the new org would utilize the tool system which would benefit the diamond enough to warrant the new reponsibility of coaching, mentoring, and supporting the new org.
In this situation, all the IBO's have a better chance for success. There are many pros/cons to the tools system and profit sharing, and to just look at the cons wouldn't give somebody the right perspective on things.
I am thankful for the system. It has changed my life, and my business has benefited greatly from it. I share passionately with every IBO that I would recommend utilizing the system as well, as I watch it help people every day in my organization.
It is a good thing that there is profit involved, otherwise we might not have such an amazing system!
Chris,
Yes, your organization may show growth, but overall, if the company starts slipping, you will see many adverse effects:
a) less partner stores joining on
b) increase in prices to support Q overhead
c) Lower credibility from a prospect's point of view.
etc, etc, etc.
I am suggesting strongly that there must be a change in a ratio of new IBO's to those not renewing to account for the fact that Q has only grown minimally, and I am convinced that the growth has been almost solely due to the points mentioned in my previous post.
The reason why I asked is because I honestly want Q to grow and thrive, but I feel that the only way this will happen is if a few things happen (and this will only happen if people like you take a stand and push for changes):
a) lower prices on coreline products
b) focus on health, wellness, and beauty (already accomplished)
c) focus on adding new and valuable products (always being done)
d) Regulate to "tools" business and make a more affordable system available that works better than what is currently in place.
Chris, I don't know the answers to those questions, but I'm not making claims about those topics either. You are.
I just think your business is a joke with prices that would never be competitive if people were huckstered into thinking that they could get rich by using them, along with the motivational "tools" (And I use tools in the absolute loosest sense of the word)
You can prove that CR # by directing me to where I could see that particular document, or by scanning it. Otherwise, it's just a refererence # you and your alleged downline came up with during a dream session.
Might be handy to have those "facts" before you use them to back up a claim, that's all. Then it's not such a big deal to back up your claims.
Furthermore, Chris, my friend, when is the tool income EVER included in the plan?
Until the tool income is shown in the plan, it should not be considered a benefit to everyone, since you obviously have to attain a minimum level to receive said income.
Put that in your plan, and it would at least have the guise of being ethical
Brian,
I realize that somehow the following information got left out of my post. I was questioning how you thought that the Quixtar average incomes for 2003 weren't "real" money and how you thought they weren't significant. Here they are:
Founders Platinum: $32,686.
Founders Emerald: $95,493.
Founders Diamond: $275,102.
Founders EDC & up: $746,122.
As you can see, real money is made by developing an organization, and because you build that community, additional income streams can be put in place for speaking, developing tools, training the organization. I don't see why you have a problem with this. What is wrong with them doing this?
IBO's benefit from they system, and it keeps the more experienced big pin diamonds available for training, mentoring, etc. I think the tools system could use some improvements, but it is essential and definitely a good thing to keep.
--
Truthseeker,
Your ABCD philosophy is cool, but I don't get the logic. You say that you honestly want Q to grow, but what is your reasoning for that. What vested interest do you have in the success or failure of the company?
Ideas for change are always good, but that doesn't mean that the company should act upon them. They are a multi-billion dollar company and they have over 40 years of experience in building community. They have been able to learn through mistakes, and success. I think they have a good grip on what they are doing.
Only 2 of your 4 suggestions are things they would need to change. The other 2 are things they should keep doing, which there is no reason to believe they won't.
a) As an IBO I have a great profit margin on coreline products and they sell well. With ditto delivery this turns into ditto income. I have found that customers also stay very loyal to the coreline products. I wouldn't mind if they lowered the prices, but I am fine with where they are. I hope Q makes good money from them as well to help their bottom line. So I don't see the need right now to lower those prices.
d) I am open for reasonable debate on how to change the tools system, but I think it is doing just fine. The tools are affordale, and despite what the critics on here say, they are very beneficial to IBO's.
Here are some changes I would like to see.
More downloadable MP3's from team websites, ore tools that are tailored to the "analytical" team members, and more "breakout" sessions at seminars that allow for different personalities/people to learn the topic they choose. This way people will feel they got more out of each seminar.
I also think that new IBO's should get standing order tapes that are preselected off of a list of beginning training tapes so that they get the best info first.
By the way, I think that Q IBO numbers have grown every year since they launched, not including 1999 when there was a pre-launch buzz. Do you have figures that would suggest otherwise? Why would we assume that the numbers aren't growing? All the indicators I see happen to show that there has been growth.
And what was your comment about partner stores? There is currently a list of hundreds, maybe thousands, of partner stores that want to be part of Quixtar. I head Ken McDonald announce this from stage, and our business relations support contact spoke about this at our seminar. Partner Stores have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being part of Q. They would be begging to join if Q was 1/2 the size 2 years from now!
--
Rocket,
You can't show tool income at the same time as the plan. This would be misleading to the IBO and is technically against the guidelines from Q corporate. You can't mix opportunities because it might confuse people. We don't even register people with tools at the same time we register them with Q. The tools biz needs to be seperate and should not be shown in the plan.
It makes sense to mention that there can be additional optional training and support materials available, and to mention what that might cost the IBO per month if they wanted them, so that there are no hidden costs down the road.
But it is a seperate business from Quixtar and should not be shown in the plan.
What claims did I make that I am not backing up? Why don't you quote me on them from an earlier post so I can understand what you are talking about. I only remember mentioning what I heard. That is hardly a claim. And I have tried to get proof of what I heard for you. That is hardly not backing myself up.
By the way, thanks for thinking my business is a joke. If everybody thought it was great, it wouldn't be much of an opportunity. Sometimes you can tell how good something is by seeing how many people think it won't work. :)
Chris,
I do have a partner store type of relationship with a few organizations. I am also an inactive IBO. That is my vested interest.
As for your suggestions on improving the system, I couldn't agree more with you. You are now being a little more productive in your comments.
We have very differing viewpoints on the success of Q, and that is fair. It is a very successful company, but I don't see it growing the way it should and you do. That's fine. But back in 9.1.99, we were told that this would be a $3 billion first year business. Then we were told we would see a stagnation for 2 years until it really exploded in 2001. We are now in 2004 and there has been no explosion. What happened? Any suggestions as to why it hasn't?
The tool system does provide value, but just how much value has it provided to IBO's in terms of moving them to big successes in the business? Overall, it has failed miserably to produce what it intends to produce.
Eg. 2-5 years for diamond promise. Does this mean that since nobody who signed up after 9.1.99 has made it to Diamond yet, this promise is hollow?
I believe DeVos when he said there was no stat showing system IBO's do better than non-system IBO's.
Let me know your thoughts
Chris;
DeVos said Tool business is illegal. DeVos said pressureing IBOs to Tool Business is bad. He said in that directly speaking tapes. He was very clear and did almost all the same things critics are saying. He was negative? Well he succumbed to the power of blood suckers, err "system".
Also, I don't know where are you seeing growth?
340,000 IBOs today
http://tinyurl.com/3p2n5
360,000 in 1977
http://tinyurl.com/6dkb8
Wow, Chris, your numbers appear to be off.
"I was trying to confirm numbers that I was hearing upline use so that I could back up my stats and I even remember them saying something about over 25,000 people registering per month. It might have even been as high as 35,000 per month.
I do know for a fact that I have seen corporate approved material that has shown that there were 750,000 registered and 25,000 registering per month. I do not have that material, but it was reviewed and had a content review number so Quixtar approved that statistic."
Posted by: Chris at October 23, 2004 04:29 AM
Looks like your research needs a bit of work my friend. What you state and what the facts are seem to be two completely different animals. Is this the kind of crap you tell your prospects? I'd be pretty upset if you were telling me stuff like that, and then I found it to be untrue.
I guess that's why you're supposed to eliminate the negative influences in your life when you decide to be in Amway.
Chris,
You are taking a hammering out there! You can't be serious about STILL justifiying all this?
Time for a john Cena moment
Yo Yo Yo, Chill Chill Chill
We are arguing a business, nothing personal. Chris is a great guy. At times he say things that make me jump as I saw quite opposite, but its ok. Maybe he didn't saw that. Besides, he never call any non-ibo loser or anything.
Business, according to my research, (FTC rules, Devos, Postma Memo, Merchant of Decepion, Behind smokes and mirrors) has a lot of illegal things in it. HOWEVER, it is full of good ppl like Chris who think it is a good business and working hard on it.
I just want to show them, and others the facts. Rest up to them.
df, he sure is, although I appreciate and accept what Imran says, well put.
Chris, I don't have a problem with you, despite how it may seem. I do hope you do well, and I do hope that you are an excellent leader, and not a lying, thieving kingpin that bases their livelihood on a lie.
I do enjoy your comments (although lengthy) and I'm sure you'll stick around. You can be a rhino around be anytime.:0)
Chris is taking it from all angles. Everything he says draws some sort of controversy or some facts that point in the other direction. If this guy is half as smart as he thinks he is, then he MUST start to think, "Gee, maybe this thing is a scam?"
I've come to learn that the people acting as if nothing's wrong are the ones with the MOST wrong in their lives.
Paddle that canoe Chris, just look out for that imminent waterfall ahead!
df, nothing but net on that one.
I don't think he'll get it.
i agree with whatever chris said. Amway Rox!
Truthseeker wrote: "I believe DeVos when he said there was no stat showing system IBO's do better than non-system IBO's."
Just because there is no stat doesn't mean that non-system IBO's are anywhere as successful as system IBO's. I am all for Q doing some polling within the LOS's to get some stats, but so far they have not done too many. So we are all left to speculate.
Quixtar recognizes many new pins in the achieve magazine, so if we were able to see how many were on system vs. non-system, at least that would give us an idea. I personally have seen that the major organizations all utilize training systems, so it seems obvious that system IBO's are more successful than non-system IBO's. I think you would have a hard time proving otherwise.
--
Mo wrote: "Also, I don't know where are you seeing growth? 340,000 IBOs today, 360,000 in 1977"
Mo, you are quoting a newspaper article, not an official statement from Quixtar. On top of that, the article does not give us accurate information about the total numbers. Was that the total that Q ended with from their fiscal year, or that they began with? Is that their base number of IBO's?
Let's assume that statistic is correct, and that it is the base number of IBO's. Quixtar has also verified stats of 35,000 new registrations each month, and Ken McDonald sent out a voicemail last year saying over 25,000 register per month.
So just to be conservative, let's use the 25k figure.
340,000 + 300,000 = 640,000+ registered consumers.
If we assume 35,000+ register per month, then:
340,000 + 420,000 = 760,000 registered consumers.
Or I guess we could assume that at the end of every year almost nobody renews and it takes them all year to get to 340,000, if that figure is even correct.
I mean, I am not sure how you critics are doing your math? Every single month there are a different number of registered consumers. That reporter could have been reporting how many there were at the time they did the report, which could have been any month, how do we even know?
I am not suggesting that you are wrong, but I am suggesting that I am not wrong as well. The truth is that we don't have statistics to verify either of our views.
So if you would like to debate numbers, simply get some figures that show total IBO's that renewed each year from 1999 until now. That would solve the debate. Until we get that statistic we don't have anything but guesses. Unless you can show some corporate released figures to back up your claims.
--
The rest of your comments are simply comedy. Mo, you remind me of ender wiggins friend from battle school. I can't remember his name, but for some reason I am picturing you as him. I hope that was not just stereotype. I mean it in a good way.
Many times, the critics are just repeating things they read from other critics, and IBO's do the same thing when they hear things from upline. Many times both sides are wrong in their statistics and information. So it needs to be corrected and addressed, although that might not fix it. So I have been wrong and admitted it, but rarely have I seen a critic admit when they are using a fuzzy statistic.
The problem is that we are all convicted strongly in our beliefs one way or another. So convincing is out of the picture. So it comes down to an endless debate, which isn't bad, but when comments like DF's get thrown in, it doesn't help.
DF, I am not acting like nothing is wrong.
What is wrong is that most americans are upside down financially and their children are being raised by daycare, and morals are being thrown out, and lifelong marriages are becoming extinct, and integrity is a memory, and, and, and...
I want to help our country to fix many of these issues, and from my experience as an IBO, I have been able to do this, and as my business gets bigger, I will be able to help more and more people in many areas of their life.
Does this mean that all IBO's are perfect? NO. Does this mean they are all honest, and have integrity, and not greedy? NO. Does this mean that I have to compromise my values to achieve success? NO.
What this means is that you are engaged in dialogue with an IBO who wants to better the world with his presence, not contribute to the ignorance and hatred that exists today. I want to reverse the direction are country is headed and bring morality and hope back into the lives of thousands of people.
I see this business as a vehicle to be able to help people out, and I am passionate about it. I honestly would consider doing it even if I weren't getting paid. I have done a lot of missionary/charity/volunteer work and what makes the effort worth it is when you see the results.
I AM seeing results in my business and it is growing and people are being helped. I want to share this awesome opportunity with as many people as I can, and I fall short in that category. I could definitely be doing a better job. Can't we all?
I don't mind that you critics are spending time pointing out things you disagree with about this business model. Sometimes that is what it takes for changes to be made.
"If something ain't broke, don't fix it. If something is broke, then fix it."
So if you feel this business model is breaking down, then your voice might help fix it. On the other hand, it might just help break it down even more.
So what I would love to see is for the critics to realize that they can have a voice to help improve the company and fix the issues/problems they see. This way the lives of thousands of people can continue to be improved, but with an opportunity that even more people see as being great. I would love to see that outcome.
That being said, when you don't like something, we debate about it, and hear open-minded perspective from all angles and this helps us come up with solutions.
I am open-minded to these debates, but when critics just say they hope I fail, and so on, and so on, it destroys a good debate. The same goes for IBO's with similar comments. Some critics are pretty nasty, but on this site I have met some decent contributors that are well educated with good debating skills. :)
Well to tell you guys the truth, i am an amway distributor in south-east asia region, thousand apologies if my english is not really good, cause i think amway can be interpreted in multiple languages which project it as a wonderful business, secondly, i am from a Non-SYSTEM group organization, not from N2*, BWW, not from any of them, i want to stress something that amway is a GREAT BUSINESS, it has help my family and 3 generations down including my grandfather, my parents, me to be much more financially stable in life, we asian countries are not as lucky as you guys in the west, we depend on ourselves 101%, we need extra income to "Survive" not to live in luxury, and as far as i am concerned with the amway business it has not just help uplift my families living quality, but also my whole family including 6 uncles and more than 20 cousins lives, my parents are founder Executive diamond, all my uncles are Founders Emeralds, and we have also a big portion of business in China, India and Australia, Phillipines, singapore, japan, taiwan, thailand and malaysia. I am only 19 year old now but i am already a founders platinum earning $48k per year (my side income). i find it is a great business, maybe you have to really open your heart and see what this business can offer, not all of the systems are bad, and i can double confirm you that Amway with or without the system still works fine. if you want stats, try to look at the global turn over , or just the china turn over, we grew and grew every year, eg malaysia market for 29 years have been a record year ever since 1976, this shows if not the people is growing the market of consumers are growing. i have 101% of faith in the amway business because it has shown the true value of a well trusted and commited business for at least 3 generation in my family, how many friends do you see that can find a business pass down after 3 generations and stil GROWING and EXPANDING TO MULTIPLE COUNTRIES. If we spend more time here to debate on this i think its really a waste of time, we are all comparing an apple with an orange, sorry for being rude and offensive, i am only 19 but i understand that the business only applies to those who adapt the business nature to their preference, if you havent found the prefered way of doing amway, take more time, slowly, it doesnt matter as long as you get there. and trust me i got there within 9 months, from 0% to 21% within 9 months, my parents from emerald to diamond and founders diamond and then founders EDC within 2 years. Pls stop this blog now. i hope you all understand because i find its an insult to "my family business" Thank you and chris take care, if you believe you can you can!
Chris,
The intent of the DeVos comment made by me was to illustrate the fact that the system is not THE answer. Education is the answer, and it can be done a lot more affordably than what is done currently.
The visual plan now available on the Q website is the first step towards breaking free of the training system pushed on IBO's, should someone want an alternative.
Chris, I am fully in support of education, don't get me wrong. I just believe that the upline has a responsibility to gradually introduce these tools to a person who may never have been in business before in his/her life.
You are right..the tool system is not very costly when compared to other businesses, and yes it has value...there is no denying that....and yes, some would agree that it would be wise to have IBO's get a cut of this money as opposed to the local bookstore. As I stated earlier, the challenge I have is that many uplines (most, in my opinion) just push the system on new people, people who may not even be ready to develop a business yet, and turn over a profit. Months later, the new person has lost a whole bunch of money and becomes sour on the business. Why? Because of ignorance and/or greed on the part of the upline.
Truthseeker,
Why would someone become and independent business owner if they were not ready to learn to start up their own business?
And the system is "optional". This means that if an IBO is not ready to develop their own business yet, that it is not mandatory for them to buy these materials.
On top of that, the system is very, very affordable. It does help train IBO's on the "how-to" portion of the business, but is that the most important thing that IBO's need?
I have come to realize that in my experience, the most important thing for the majority of IBO's is belief/motivation. Everybody thinks they want the how-to, but when you give it to them, they aren't motivated enough to apply it.
But when you give them the motivation, then they get motivated enough to learn the how-to. So that is why there needs to be a good balance of motivational CD's and analytical how-to CD's.
I would say a 3:1 ratio would be about right. So the average IBO would get 4 CD's per month, and 1 would be detail oriented, and the rest story/motivational CD's.
I think that every seminar should be a blend of motivation/education/product knowledge/community building. It should be tailored to fit the needs of the majority attending.
From my experience, the majority of people have no problem with the low overhead of the system, and they feel that they gain incredibly from it.
I feel like the upline does not "push" the system on people, but they promote it with passion as a tool for success. This is how I promote it as well. I have personally seen better results for IBO's on the system than those who were not. And I work with them either way.
If an IBO starts up their business, and plugs into the system and doesn't have success, was that because of the system? I really doubt it.
I have not seen that to be the case once in my time building the business. If the IBO applied what they learned from the system to their life and business, they would only stand to gain from it.
The principles and practices taught through the training system help IBO's. And for the low cost, this is some of the most amazing help I have ever seen. Whether or not the IBO choses to learn from it is up to them.
Chris,
The real reason why there is a ratio of 3 to 1 (motivation/stories to teaching), is that the business is too simple to justify more than 1 CD per month on teaching. The stories excuse is used to justify tape income. Besides, motivation is only temporary....a burning internal desire to succeed usually replaces the motivation...the same reason why the people who succeed in going to the higher pins differ from those who don't, regardless of the system and the motivational tapes.
What's your view on cross-lining, by the way?
Truthseeker,
I disagree. I think that ratio is good. Especially for a new IBO starting out. Remember, I am for a system where the newest IBO gets standing order "training" CD's for their first several tools. Our organization does this and I think that more should.
Once an IBO is ready, they should upgrade to a "leadership" tape per week, and I have found that the ratio is higher for teaching tapes vs. story tapes. I have also found great teaching in the story tapes as well, so I get "teaching" out of about 80% of the tools that come through.
On the issue of crosslining, I think that it is very bad for a new IBO to crossline. Crosslining can be a very effective tool, but I have found it only really effective when a common upline is present.
Let's say I give Jane a strategy to build width based on her goals and strengths. And I give John a strategy to build depth for the same reasons. Then Jane and John get to talking, and Jane sees that John finds out that Jane is making more money than him by building width, so he decides to focus on width rather than depth.
Now as the upline I have someone taking advice from crossline, and I am spending a lot of time working with John, just to find out he is using opposite advice. This puts a kink in our business partnership. John may not have realized the wisdom in the plan I gave him, and when crosslining is tolerated, things like this happen all the time.
An even more common and worse example is when an IBO has momentum and starts to hang around and talk with an IBO who is not growing at all, maybe even declining. This will often crush the momentum that the growing IBO has. I have seen it done, believe me.
I think that as an IBO matures, they can handle crosslining more, and understand how to not hurt another organization in a discussion. I think there is a lot that can be gained if a Diamond is not seeing growth, and seeks wisdom from a Diamond that is having momentum. In this way, crosslining can be beneficial.
What I have done is have a leader from one of my fast-moving legs get together with a leader from another slow-moving leg, with me present, and I have asked the fast-moving leader questions about their business and what they are doing to make it grow so fast. I fell that crosslining like this is benficial if there is a common upline present.
Generally, I think that it is wise to choose a source of mentorship and advice and stick with it, rather than jump all over the place for advice. This way, your mentor can really get a chance to learn a lot about you and your outside-the-business-life which effects your business life.
It is really easy to get advice from someone new, but they won't know a whole lot about you, and so their advice will be blind advice and often times it may sound good but if they knew what was really going on, they might give totally opposite advice. So picking a mentor and sticking with them is an important process of success.
I crossline with you guys all the time, but I am at a point where I feel that I can handle it. I have many IBO's in my organization that I would recommend not to participate in discussions like this because I know them well, and they would not benefit from the words exchanged here.
I hope that answered your question. :)
Hey Chris!
We'll agree to disagree with the tools. I'm more for leadership and teaching rather than stories and teaching, although you can learn a lot from a story.
As for the crosslining bit. I agree on many counts....I also believe that the upline needs to lighten up to make it appear less cult-like.
I haven't experienced the cult-like issues that some people have talked about. Our organization does not do anything I would consider cult-like.
Even Dexter Yager FEC events don't seem cult-like. I have never been to a major function like the one on Dateline. Dex doesn't run his events like that from what I have seen.
But out of curiosity, what are some things you would consider cult-like that I might be able to avoid in my personal organization?
Chris,
You don't think having Dex speak until the wee hours of the morning...sometimes until 3am on a Saturday night cult-like.
How about comments from the Dex FED stage like, "this is the world we created so that it would shelter us from the real world". Or continually knocking down formal education. Then there's the comments on Bo's site regarding comparing yourself to Biblical figures. Chris...this is downright scary. In my days as a very excited IBO, it was always in the back of my mind that I felt uncomfortable introducing friends to events such as these, because of this cult-like behaviour, and these events are the view for those in the public eye. Have you ever had a chance to attend the more secretive events (by invitation only). You'll know what I'm talking about if you have.
Truthseeker,
Thanks for the response.
I just wanted to try to understand what you considered cult-like. The things you mention, I do not have a problem with personally. I actually prefer for Dex and other speakers to talk as long as possible.
This gives you a better return on your investment. To stay for that long is totally optional, so for those who want more information, then it is there for them. I see that as a great benefit.
I didn't know that when someone spoke at a conference past midnight that it was cult-like. I guess that christian conferences are cult-like too according to your view. I was at a christian business-mens conference and the last speaker spoke until 2am on Saturday Night. There were several multi-millionaire business men in the audience that were wide awake at that hour listening and gaining wisdom.
Dexter Yager is actually one of my favorite speakers. I disagree with him on several issues, but then again, who doesn't. He does not want everyone to be like him.
Listen, he thinks that he has a calling to do what he does from God. Is he wrong to believe this? I don't think so. It might very well be true. That is between him and God. I know many people who feel called to do what they do by God, and I have respect for them, not disrespect.
Is Dexter perfect? NO. Does he make mistakes? YES. Does he always speak correctly? NO. Does he have wisdom to provide regarding building communities of people? YES.
I do not have a problem with bringing new people to attend his events. I actually look forward to it. I have never felt anything downright scary about him or his events. I have learned a great deal from Dex, and he is an inspiration to me.
My grandfather is also an inspiration to me and I have learned a great deal from him. I do not worship either of them. But I do believe that both of them have been impactful in my life, and I am thankful to them for that.
I don't know what you mean about "secretive" events. Are these events that you have personally been to? I have been to many events but never one that I would consider "secretive".
By the way, what exactly is "cult-like" about speaking until 3am?
Chris said:
Even Dexter Yager FEC events don't seem cult-like. I have never been to a major function like the one on Dateline. Dex doesn't run his events like that from what I have seen.
I say:
Nope!!!!!!
I was in Dexter functions and those of his supporters, they were EXACTLY like that.
Chris said:
Listen, he thinks that he has a calling to do what he does from God. Is he wrong to believe this? I don't think so. It might very well be true. That is between him and God. I know many people who feel called to do what they do by God, and I have respect for them, not disrespect.
I said:
Dex claims not to be directed by god's teaching.... but that his god speaks to him and Birdie DIRECTLY. as in one-on-one conversations. He speaks hate of anyone not like him (right-wing Christian fundamentalist) in the name of his god.
sorry, that is scary.
Roger, Dex is a Christian Leader. Do you know that God doesn't speak to him directly? Obviously if you don't believe in God then we know the answer. There are millions of Christians who believe that God speaks to people directly. Are Christian Cult-Like because of this? It sounds like this is what you are saying.
I have been attending Yager events since the launch of Quixtar and there has not been one like the event on dateline yet that I have been to personally.
Chris Wrote: Mo wrote: "Also, I don't know where are you seeing growth? 340,000 IBOs today, 360,000 in 1977"
Mo, you are quoting a newspaper article, not an official statement from Quixtar. On top of that, the article does not give us accurate information about the total numbers. Was that the total that Q ended with from their fiscal year, or that they began with? Is that their base number of IBO's?
>Chris, total number of IBOs, it's Quixtar own press release, on september 03, 340K IBOs
http://tinyurl.com/3p2n5
And 360K in 1977, that figure was from FTC case.
Yea sure new ppl sign up, old ppl quit, number remains the same
So if according to you 25, 000 new ppl sign up, Quixtar IBO force should be in Millions over next few years.
I don't understand why you are having a hard time understanding that? Any thing '-ve' you won't accept it?
If we are talking about proof, where is the proof ken said that? How do we know he is not lying?
Mo wrote: "Chris, total number of IBOs, it's Quixtar own press release, on september 03, 340K IBOs"
Was this "Quixtar's own press release" or was it an article written by Rob Kirkbride of the Grand Rapids Press? It says it was written by Rob Kirkbride, but if you have another source that says it was Quixtar's own press release, then I will believe that.
We don't know if Ken is lying or not. The statistics that you quote for current numbers would also fall under that assumption as well. All that would prove is that we have no idea how many registered IBO's there are today, and so we don't know if the numbers have increased or not.
I don't know how you get "millions" from that statistic. 300k+ per year, but then not all will renew. So while it is possible to reach millions, they would need some
QBlog, this list is great! I read through the entire post, and I think I got an A because I am very focused on each of those points made.
These are all great ideas, and as an IBO, I have built a business and plugged into a training system that has helped me personally develop and earn more income and time to focus on all of these things.
Notice that each one of these things takes time, and most people I come across are time-starved. So by developing a business part-time on the side where they can leverage their time to earn more time, they can actually focus on these things more.
Another thing to consider is that most people don't get a chance to do these things whether or not they are network marketers. So this list would apply to any job/business that requires extra time, not just network marketing.
So after reading this post, I had to laugh because it really had nothing to do with Amway. In fact, on point 3 it actually seems like this guy wants you to shrink your dreams and settle for less.
Point 1 is controversial. From what I have learned, it totally depends on the individual. Habits like drinking, smoking, excercise, etc. all play a role. Many people do just fine with 5 1/2 hours sleep, other people need 8. I personally function better off of 6 hours sleep than 8.
I currently have had the option to sleep as long as I want, but I still try not to get much more than 6 hours, otherwise I am sluggish during the day.
Option 2 is why many people choose to become IBO's. The majority of people spend most of the day away from their kids at their jobs, and then just get a little time at night. They are usually stressed from work and unwinding at that point, and there is little time before the kids need to go to sleep.
A solution to this could be to become an independent business owner and build a business with an exit strategy for your job so that you can work from home and be in control of your hours.
That is one of the main reasons I am excited about sharing this opportunity with others. Because I can potentially help them to be full-time parents and actually raise their kids instead of having somebody else raise them.
So thanks for posting this article QBlog because it is a motivating factor for people to become IBO's :)
Posted by: Chris | November 5, 2004 12:13 AM