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November 1, 2004
Monday Reader Mail: 19
By QBlog in Reader Mail
Here's today's reader mail without commentary. I concealed the name a bit more than usual to protect identities. My edits are in italics.
name: Mrs. MI responded by basically saying that I'd keep Mrs. M and her family in my prayers. I haven't heard back from her.
date: October 19, 2004message: I have thouroughly enjoyed browsing your site. I am the wife of a current Quixtar IBO and I am not very happy that my husband continues chasing a false dream. Your site has given me a lot of information. I tried sharing the information with my husband who became angry with me for being negative about his business. I'm not sure how much longer I can take this.
We are on the verge of bankruptcy and I have become very anti-quixtar because of it. We became IBO's in (sometime between 1999 and 2000 - actual date edited out). Until then, we were very good at paying all our bills on time. That very same month it all started and we have since had to let most bills go to collections. I sit and worry everyday that any day now I will be served with a subpoena to show up in court from a creditor.
Our upline strongly discourages bankruptcy, but I'm more afraid of wage garnishing. I became disenchanted with the business when I became pregnant and was very ill from the pregnancy (edited date) and our upline (who discourages having a baby until you are at least at the platinum level... preferably diamond) started giving me the silent treatment, saying I wasn't dedicated because I wasn't attending meetings and functions and just making me feel like an unsupportive, horrible wife. They did not even come to visit us in the hospital after I had the baby. My husband doesn't feel the same way. He says I'm holding a grudge and need to get over it.
He thinks his upline "hung the moon". He's even made comments to me about how he wants to go direct for his upline... if he goes direct, his upline will go (a high-level pin). Now, I just totally stay away from the subject of the business. If he has a meeting to go to I say nothing but bye when he leaves and then hi when he returns. I feel so angry that these people have brainwashed my husband to this extent. He doesn't see it. I'm not one who believes in divorce... nor do I think that money is an acceptable reason for divorce... so I will continue to sit back and quietly worry and pray he sees the light.
Monday Reader mail is real email, from real readers sent in to me and published every Monday. I try never use last names (when they're given) and try to protect the author's identities unless permission is given to share that information.
Comments
I'd really be interested to see Chris' take on this. Please tell me Chris what kind of silver lining exists in this all too common scenario. I don't mean to single you out, but it seems you have an answer to everything so have at it.
I imagine that the response will be something along the lines of: 'This is just one bad apple, our organisation doesn't treat people like that.'
The more militant among MLM advocates will say that the reason for their failure is that Mrs M is a dreamstealer, who is not supporting Mr M.
There are many organizations that plug into the Quixtar organization. From the tone of Mrs. M's post, my guess is that her husband is in one that is all about profits and not about family and community. Not all organizations are created equal. They definitely need guidance and prayers.
Buzzard, you have some good points.
If an IBO isn't experiencing this type of situation in their organization, then they would say "their organization doesn't treat people like that" and they would be telling the truth.
And your second point was pretty accurate too, because Mrs. M said her husband was chasing a "false dream". If you told your spouse your dreams/goals and then she went behind your back and said you were chasing "false" dreams, you would be pretty upset too.
LadyBauer, you have a good comment below. Not every group operates that way. This is true. But the critics on here don't like that response because they make fun of IBO's who say their organization isn't like that.
I think this email is very sad, from the wifes perspective, and I have no problem with QBlog posting it up here. I think that if you had IBO wives discuss their situation with the business, that this would by far be the exception, not the rule, but nevertheless this opinion should still be heard.
There are 2 main problems that she has and is writing about.
1) That her husband is not handling his finances right, and is chasing a "false" dream.
2) She thinks her upline are jerks for not being more supportive of her when she wasn't able to tend to the business.
The first situation is very common among americans, especially in the midwest, and is more common for people with jobs, than network marketers. Many people in this country are upside down financially, so we cannot look at this problem as a specific for Quixtar. This guy needs to handle his finances. Period.
The second point is valid, and how she feels should be expressed. There might also be a valid reason for her upline not showing up at the hospital.
Her upline might have made recommendations to her for when would be a good time to have a baby, and whether or not bankrupcy was a good idea, and if she wanted guidance in those areas, then asking advice would be a good thing, not a bad thing.
The uplines advice didn't even sound bad. It was the way she took the advice. So maybe the upline needs to work on their communication skills. Who knows.
My synopsis is that the upline needs to learn to be more caring for individuals, the husband needs to handle his finances and better communicate with his wife, and the wife needs to learn to be more supportive of her husbands dreams, and be willing to forgive her upline for the mistakes they have made.
That is just how I see it, but I am sure that the critics on here will see it much differently.
Plus it is pretty much impossible to come to a conclusion on this because we don't see the side of the story from the husband or from the upline. So because we don't have their versions, it only seems fair to give them the benefit of the doubt in this scenario.
Be careful about characterizing "Mrs. M's" group. I know which group she's in and it's one of the most respected, if not the most respected, in all of Quixtar.
The financial hardships caused by involvement in these organizations is sad to be sure.
What about the families and life long friendships that have been destroyed when individuals choose not to join. They are ignored and treated like the enemy.
I have decided to disinherit my children because of their involvement in TOD. After all they have "all the time and money" they need so they sure don't need any of mine.
If I were the upline in this particular situation, I would continue to give Mr M moral support and advise him to keep sponsoring people and showing the plan.
Sound advice would be to avoid (or reduce) spending on tools for the time being - as this would be one way to save money.
I would like to think my advice would be the same as above, even if I were making money off the tool sales. There isn't much point in bleeding your source of income dry before they start making big coin is there?
Nice one QBlog.
The group is likely to agree with the third point that I made in my post just below.
Well hold on there, QBlog.
Ladybauer only said that she "guessed" that this organization might be a certain way. There is not enough proof from this email to know at all, so her guess should be considered reasonable.
In fact, if this were an email from a pro-quixtar IBO, the critics on here would say that it was just all fluff and that there is not enough proof so why should we listen to it.
This is hypocracy, that critics don't request any proof if they hear a negative view, but demand proof if they hear a positive one.
So technically stories could just be fabricated every week, and there would be no proof to back them up.
The difference between me and the critics is that I will give the opposite view the benefit of the doubt even though you could easily just write stuff up yourself.
I believe that this lady wrote this, and that she feels this way. I also believe that it is only one side of the story, and I have written a simple analysis of this email below.
I don't think it was a pro or anti Quixtar analysis, but more a balanced analysis for both sides. All 3 parties involved, (wife, husband, upline), could all pro-actively do something to improve the situation. I would not point fingers to anyone of them specifically that they are the source of the problem.
And this might not be common practice in the organization as a whole, but might just be between these 3 parties.
The organizations leaders might suggest some tips and advice for this woman's sponsor so that they could become better at leading people in the future.
I would give the organization as a whole the benefit of the doubt as well.
--
W. Smith, I am glad that you are not my parent. I feel bad for your children that their parent would disinherit them because they decided to start up their own business and attempt to achieve their goals and dreams, rather than live a lifestyle where they don't go after their dreams.
You should take some time to ask them what their dreams are and why they started up their own business and maybe you could see why they made the choices they made.
I don't think it is the inheritance of money that is the important thing here, it is the principle. Why would you cut your kids out? What did they do that is so bad? Why was starting up their own business so bad that you would disinherit them?
From the content of w smith's post it seems w smith's kids disowned him first, when w smith decided not to join TOD himself.
Buzzard, I agree that this may be the case. If the kids disowned their parents, then their backlash could be the loss of inheritance, and it would be justified.
But perhaps the kids just wanted the parents to join or at least support them in their business.
If their parents chose to be negative towards their business, then the kids are left with a decision. Either quit their new business venture, or continue it, knowing that when they are around their parents, that their parents will be negative if they bring up their business.
I have seen this situation happen, and I would suggest that it is much more likely in the overall picture for IBO's. So if I jumped to the conclusion of automatically assuming this then I am sorry. That is why I asked W. Smith what caused him to disinherit his kids.
So what do you do if your parents do not approve of your business? Then you go to a family event and everybody talks about their jobs and stuff, and when you bring up your business you get the negative vibe? So do you quit because of this? My answer: NO.
I don' think that you quit something just because people do not believe in it. Some of the most successful people in the world started entire industries against major opposition from close friends and family.
As a Christian, when I go to family events, I get a hard time for my belief. I don't push it on anyone at all, and in fact, hardly bring it up. Usually someone will ask me something, and I will respond, and they will say, "Oh no, now he's going to try to convert us". Or something like that.
For instance, at a recent holiday get together my brother asked me what I thought about stem cell research. I gave him my reply, and told him that my view was based more on my faith, than any other reason.
So then the family wanted to change the subject because they didn't want to discuss my religion. But we weren't discussing my religion. I simply gave my view when I was asked and they didn't want to hear it.
So the same thing can happen any time you take a stand on something that is controversial, and network marketing definitely is controversial.
So instead of having a logical discussion on issues like we do on here, most people just turn off and don't want to hear it. We are seeing that alot when politics are brought up in conversations. Either people love talking about it, or don't want to have anything to do with it.
And that is sad that the family can talk all day about topics I would consider much less important, like reality tv shows and who Jennifer Lopez is marrying next, but when a decent topic comes up, if it is controversial, then the family often gives the cold shoulder.
The good news is that after you have success, your family is likely to turn around. Partially because you are more educated and so you handle yourself better around them instead of every second talking business, business, business, and you have overcome their biggest concern which is that you will fail and waste your time.
The big issue with family is that they want to "save" you from failing in something, so they try to talk you out of it, so that when you do fail they can say "I told you so".
I think they do this out of love, and they don't mean any harm, but once you succeed they will apologize for not believing in you.
My recommendation to IBO's would be to go about talking to members of your family in a professional way, and ask them questions and be very very careful to not be pushy. Family is one of the most important priorities in your life, so don't leave a bad taste in their mouth if you can avoid it.
Hopefully that insight was helpful.
Chris, you are handsomely correct in what you say. There comes a point when one must make decisions for oneself and take responsibility for the same.
You are also correct to say that there are many bad vibe merchants who will make negative comments about MLM. Cultism is a common example.
In addition to these there are certain MLM people / groups, who will say that anyone who does not wish to join a particular MLM is a broke loser with a job.
The negative comments fly both ways!
I agree.
I feel bad for Mrs. M.
The question I have is whether Mr. M financial problem is the result of his not attending to his personal finances or the result of his "mentor" telling him to go into debt to support the "system" that will bring him freedom.
The former is his problem. The latter is abuse. If it's the latter, I hope Eric Scheibeler win his suit so all other predators can be taken down too.
QBlog, there's a "most respected" AMO????
Chris says:
"So what do you do if your parents do not approve of your business? Then you go to a family event and everybody talks about their jobs and stuff, and when you bring up your business you get the negative vibe? So do you quit because of this? My answer: NO."
Jobs parents don't agree with:
1. Drug dealer (unless you supply mom and pop on the cheap).
2. Child pornographer.
3. Pimp.
4. Jihadist (sometimes).
5. IBO.
Come on, Chris. How bad does something have to be for your PARENTS to give you the cold sholder?
Parents = Dreamstealers. I have heard it all now.
That comment may haunt you forever, Chris.
PJ wrote: "That comment may haunt you forever, Chris"
Lol, I couldn't help but laugh at that one!
My family turned the cold shoulder on my choice of faith, my choice of political group, my choice of public education, my choice on the Iraq war, my choice of news stations to watch, my choice of business opportunities, and probably anything else that is controversial as well.
I am not sure many members in my family have the opposite view from me on almost every issue, but that hasn't stopped me from believing in what I believe in.
Look, I have done my research. I have read Eric's book (most of it). I have read Amquix, QBlog, Lawblawg, MLMblog and on and on. I have listened to cd's, read books, and attended functions. I have requested mentorship and followed that as well.
I try my best to have integrity and make the right decisions, and to let my faith be the moral foundation in my life.
After all of my research so far, I have only gained conviction in my belief for the Quixtar opportunity. I think it is better now than ever, and I think it is only getting better.
I think there is room for improvements, and I don't mind watchdog groups formed by the critics to help improve the opportunity.
I do mind when they try to eliminate the opportunity, but lawsuits in general tend to force a company, or business owner, to follow rules and guidelines much tighter, so I am on the side of you critics when it is legitimate.
Some critics use illegitimate tactics, but I will not stereotype all critics that way. I think that QBlog does a good job and presenting information in a professional way and letting readers have a voice to debate the issues.
I think he slants more towards the negative views of the company, but honestly, that is what is controversial and makes for a popular blog, so we are here discussing things because of this.
PJ, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you were being sarcastic by putting Independent Business Owners in the same category as child pornographers and drug dealers, but readers may have thought you were being serious.
If written on a serious note, that was one of the cruelest comments to IBO's that I have heard. I truly hope you were joking. I am an IBO and I am proud of what I do, and how I help people. I don't know what you do that is so much better, but I know that what I do is a good thing.
Chris:
Your eloquent meanderings should be a clear and simple sign to anyone "on the bubble" about the AmQuix company.
If you have to spend hours and hours typing pages and pages of text defending your position........
...then you are only fooling yourself!
Man,
I could almost hear “Glory, Glory Hallelujah” whilst I read that!
Yes. I lumped IBOs and child pornographers in the same list without any hint of sarcasm whatsoever. Yup. Caught me on that one, inspector.
What the rest of your post had to do with anything...I don’t know. All I got was the Chris Moral of the Story:
“The decisions I have made in my life have alienated everyone from me, especially my family. Everyone except for my Quixtar family. They are truly a blessed thing and I am blessed to be amongst them.”
I STILL can’t figure out how we get ‘cult’ mixed up in all of this.
A group you defend, vigorously, has countless tales of heartache and poverty identical to the reader’s mail above. Tales of success aren’t so easy to find, and what success that is claimed can’t seem to pass the muster of public scrutiny, or is followed by more than one asterisk.
And I’m the cruel one.
My story is almost the same as Mrs. M's, except we did have to declare bankruptcy. We were not in debt before AmQuix except for our mortgage.
Upline did not 'counsel' specifically that DH go into debt to buy tool BS, but said things like "do whatever it takes", questioned his priorities, etc.
Sadly, he now believes that the problem is that he did it 'wrong'...what a laod of crap. he could be Warren Buffet, and he still ain't gonna make this flawed model productive.
David, I agree with you on some points.
I was specifically asked by a critic on this post to share what could possibly be looked at as positive in a situation like this. So I responded.
Couldn't we just as easily look at this email and consider that IBO's like myself could learn from this as to how to build their business better so that this type of problem would be less likely to happen for them.
See, when I read this email, that is what I get out of it. I hear a story of someone who was hurt, and learn some ideas on how I can try to make sure that doesn't happen for me.
If Mrs. M reads these comments, she might see that she has helped create a discussion that might change some views in general.
I don't think anyone, IBO or critic, would want this situation to happen for them, so we only stand to benefit from a discussion about it.
So I agree with you David, that prayer can always help a situation, but I do not think that because we are discussing it, that we don't feel for her.
In fact, the critic that wanted to hear my views has a blog, and from what I can tell, he is a devout christian, and seems like a very caring guy, and probably has prayed for Mrs. M.
I am also a christian, and part of my experience on this blog is to learn how I can be a better business builder so that I can help more people succeed and gain from their Independent Business.
My goal is to have a group that is so tight and solid, that if any one of them read one of these posts, that they would understand that they are involved in a great group that is not like this.
Kinda like what you are doing Dave.
And by the way, Mrs. M might want our advice. It seems like she doesn't want to talk with her husband about it, and she reads the rest of the posts on here, and knows that QBlog posts reader emails every monday, so yes, she might have anticipated this. We don't know for sure though.
Yes,
By all means, let's divert attention from what 'the business' has done for this lady and 'pray' she goes away.
Well done.
Options outside the system? You have got to be kidding. What are her 'outside' options? Leave? Let bankruptcy save the day? Hope the husband cuts back on tools?
Possibly, seek out her all loving and caring - Christian mind you, Quixtar family that has supported her so well to this point?
No, no...let's not be negative at all. Just pray she goes away...
Shame on you. You know who you are.
No problem David. Thanks for the replies.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT, HE WILL ONLY BEAT YOU UP & SPIT YOU OUT WITH HIS EXPERIENCE...
the internet is a bathroom wall... theres crap about everything. so dont even waste your time on these guys... just build your buisness.. go diamond.
Chris:
From someones post:
"NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT, HE WILL ONLY BEAT YOU UP & SPIT YOU OUT WITH HIS EXPERIENCE...
the internet is a bathroom wall... theres crap about everything. so dont even waste your time on these guys... just build your buisness.. go diamond."
Sheer Quix rhetoric. We could change the "go Diamond" at the end of this and place "get out of the business" in there, and it would apply perfectly.
This blog seems typical of what I've seen in this business. People overextend themselves in a big way by investing wholeheartedly in the system, as it's pushed by the upline. To respond by saying "Handle your finances.Period", you are being unfair. You don't know their situation so you cannot just say that. Maybe they have, to the extent that they are just above broke. Maybe this business has tipped the scales into debt.
I do know this:
When the upline says "Support all upline events", they want everyone at these events (for the most part, regardless of what is being spent on attending)
When someone is struggling financially, the upline is not apt to say "cut down on tapes" but rather "show more plans and retail", even if the person is scared about building the business, to the point of paralysis.
Of course this type of person is not in your organization as everyone is making money, right? Hardly.
"Her options could be many outside the system. A pastor, a family member, a support group such as Co-Dependents or Debtor's Anonymous."
You are missing the base problem - her husband is a member of a pernicious, money grubbing cult. She can go to all the meetings and sessions in the world, but I don't see that fixing the problem at all. He'll STILL be shooting for direct next month. She's already at odds with him and his belief system, and going outside for support only furthers his delusion that she is out to wreck his 'business.'
For you slow readers out there: the LAST thing she should do is go to her 'upline' for help.
If she goes outside, she challenges the cult, and therefore her husband. She doesn't appear willing to do that. She will just try to wait it out until they actually are bankrupt. She is stuck.
Another Quixtar success story.
Chris:
Your eloquent meanderings should be a clear and simple sign to anyone "on the bubble" about the AmQuix company.
If you have to spend hours and hours typing pages and pages of text defending your position........
...then you are only fooling yourself!
I've stated it on the forums but it deserves repeating--my wife was the same as the lady that emailed Qblog.
She did tell me her feelings and we have done something about it.
We each now have our own business that has a positive cash flow.
We each have our own websites and can advertise.
We haven't fully recovered or healed all of the issues but we are working together and have time for our kids.
I will pray for her and her situation and all of the others like her.
Good job Inheriter.
You made a decision on this issue as a family and acted on your decision.
See, I wouldn't be upset if someone said this business wasn't for them. I am looking for people who see this business as a solution for them, and they are willing to do the work for it.
Truthseeker wrote: "You don't know their situation so you cannot just say that. Maybe they have, to the extent that they are just above broke."
If that is the case, then their family needs to do some financial planning to solve that situation, not to live in it. Unless they are happy with it.
It seems more obvious that they were unhappy with their current financial situation, and so they decided to do something about it and start up their own business. I applaud them for that.
So you critics can argue that Quixtar wasn't the right business, and it may not have been for them. We don't know what their work ethic was like, or if they understood what it meant to be self-employed.
But it may be the perfect business for them, and if the husband can just learn to handle his finances better, and learn to get his business more profitable, then they can potentially be more successful.
See, the thing is, that you can take this same situation and just replace their current business with another business, and it is still very possible that they would be seeing the same results.
If a family is to a point, where they are struggling financially, then they need a gameplan to temporarily fix, and then permanently solve that problem.
When an individual starts up a business there is usually start-up fees and overhead. Many business do not make a profit for months. Many people use credit cards, loans, and family loans to start up their business. Many business fail, and this is even when the business owner is working 80+ hours per week.
So with Quixtar their initial investment was much, much lower. Their monthly overhead was much, much lower. They probably won't have to pay back family thousands and thousands of dollars if their business fails. So far it sounds like Quixtar is a better solution.
But for them it may or may not be. That is up to them. A solution is necessary, and my advice would be if they were going to continue to build their IBO business, to treat it like a business and make it a must to get profitable and to start paying off debt and get in a better financial situation.
It is really not that difficult to get profitable, but most people are not ready to be self-employed. They are used to a boss telling them what to do, and showing up for work and having a set amount of things to get done for the day, and so this repetition is easy to get used to.
Owning your own business is much different and requires strong discipline and work ethic, as well as persistence in getting it off the ground because that is the toughest part.
Once again Inheriter, congratulations on the success of your new business venture with your spouse.
IMPORTANT - READ THIS
I get TONS of comment spam and I try to remove every single piece. It's getting to be more of a pain every day but that's my problem, not yours.
I accidentally deleted two comments from David Robison as I was De-Spamming my blog comments. I'm replacing them here (they were only on this post) but they will obviously be out of order.
I apologize but it's not easy removing literally hundreds and hundreds of comment spam each week. This time I screwed up.
QBlog
Does Mrs. M even want our advice?
We are all so quick to jump on the topic.
One side sees her letter as a testimony to the evil of Quixtar Motivational Organizations, and another nail in their assumed eventual coffin of Quixtar.
The other side sees it as an opportunity to provide rebuttal and "defense" to the Q opportunity.
Anyone consider that Mrs. M saw the Qblog as just a sounding board? A third party that she could "vent" to; knowing he would understand the jargon and the language; and be able to provide merely a sympathetic ear.
Qblog states he told her he would keep her in "his prayers". That sounds like the best thing that could be said of the situation, unless Mrs. M asked for further advice.
Why must everything be a chance to jump on the "soapbox"(pardon my pun") and express consenting and dissenting opinions.
And if advice is offered, why must it be ALL related to how to handle it within the realm of Quixtar?
Critics often accuse IBOs of not thinking outside the system, seems no one one has offered anything thing to Mrs M, outside of the system, except Qblog.
I have resources for Mrs. M, if she wants them. If she does not, then I only offer my prayers as well, and hope that her and the baby are both well and healthy.
"Yes,
By all means, let's divert attention from what 'the business' has done for this lady and 'pray' she goes away.
Well done."
Huh? who said anything about praying she goes away.
"Options outside the system? You have got to be kidding. What are her 'outside' options? Leave? Let bankruptcy save the day? Hope the husband cuts back on tools?"
Her options could be many outside the system. A pastor, a family member, a support group such as Co-Dependents or Debtor's Anonymous.
Are you saying you would prefer all her options to be within a Quixtar Upline or a Quixtar Discussion group?
"Possibly, seek out her all loving and caring - Christian mind you, Quixtar family that has supported her so well to this point?
No, no...let's not be negative at all. Just pray she goes away...
Shame on you. You know who you are."
its obvious that her Quixtar family provided no support. What's your point? Same as mine. Seek actual counsel from some one outside of the Quixtar realm.
I'm only ashamed you misinterpreted everything I had to say.
And personal inside to Chris..I responded to your post you made at my blog as well as to last weeks reader mail comments here at Qblog. I sure wish you would link an email address to your name.
I'm not so certain that all people who are recruited by quixtar are unhappy with their financial situation before being recruited.
When I was prospected (back in the Amway days), I was lent a tape in which a gentleman was telling me that I was broke and that if I got a higher paid job, I would be broke at a higher level. Anyhow, the general gist was that employment is for losers.
The point I am making here is the recruitment method that I experienced was:
1. Convince the prospect that he is unhappy as an employee / conventional business owner
2. Offer the MLM as the solution to the "problem", which he never knew he had in the first place.
Anyway, I did my own research and decided that Amway wasn't my bag.
That said. I certainly enjoy reading the quixtar conversation. The subject never ceases to fascinate me!
Buzzard wrote: "I'm not so certain that all people who are recruited by quixtar are unhappy with their financial situation before being recruited."
> True. I don't think anyone here would disagree with that.
Based on my experience, and the geographic location of the majority of my organization, I would say the number 1 reason I hear is more time. People are making money, but are time starved.
But I know that in many geographic areas, like the midwest, the number 1 reason usually tends to be getting rid of their jobs.
As far as prospecting goes, I have always been taught to ask questions. We don't use any sort of prospecting tapes or "ad packs" or anything like that. Because everybody has different dreams/goals.
I mean, there are going to be the common dreams, so I think that seminars and tools should reflect that on a general level, but if an individual is motivated for more free time, then selling them on an idea for more money wouldn't appeal to them.
With questions you can clearly find out what needs an individual has, and then see if the IBO plan is a vehicle that can help achieve them. I would hope that every organization uses this strategy vs. the "doom & gloom" strategy.
See, I could easily point out how social security is a ponzi scheme, and is fundamentally flawed, and according to what I have seen critics on here write, I am sure everyone would agree with me.
So I could point out how the vast majority of people have no plan for retirement and are saving on average -$200 per month. How their is no job security these days, and how investment options like the stock market are just unpredictable. Where safe investments like 401k's have even lost considerable value for many people.
While this is all true, and is sometimes necessary for an individual to think about their future, I still think that questions are the way to go. I hope other organizations catch on.
Chris wrote> See, I could easily point out how social security is a ponzi scheme, and is fundamentally flawed, and according to what I have seen critics on here write, I am sure everyone would agree with me.
> Sure ppl can. But this is Quixtar Blog. We comment on Quixtar related things here.
In my opinion, Quixtar creates problem instead of solving. My opinion, observation and experience. A closed buying club where 70% rule is no where observed is doomed to fail. To make one upline nearly successful, many downlines have to loose money. Or in other words, to be a winner, you gotta find other losers (where 70% rule is not obeyed). This was in Gala / BWW, and heard the same even worse about Other BWW, WWDB, TOD, Amway UK / India / Europe.
So many ppl losing money, because of one company, ok not the company, lack of implementation of rules, we got a problem. No?
So Chris, I think we both will agree on this, Rules of Quixtar should be obeyed. I mailed Quixtar business rules deptt. Many people have. Don’t see Quixtar taking ANY action to enforce them. So is FTC. What a new person should do? Study the rules, find which LOS obey them and join that LOS. Not an LOS which says, “We buy for ourselves and teach other to do the same” or “we are not door to door salesmen”. I think it justifies critic’s sites which stay objective. Right?
Chris wrote: "Based on my experience, and the geographic location of the majority of my organization, I would say the number 1 reason I hear is more time. People are making money, but are time starved."
But, time=money, so it again goes back to people wanting a more money.
There is nothing wrong with that; but people are tying to loot money from the effort of others' in the AmQuix money scam.
Just think about the name Quixtar. Quick + Star => it purveys a message of get-rich-quick. People (apparently, according to Chris) don't have time/money to make an honest buck, so they join into the scam to make a QuickBuck.
Maybe TEAM should rename themselves QuickBuck ?????
Mo wrote: "...Not an LOS which says, 'We buy for ourselves and teach other to do the same” or “we are not door to door salesmen'."
> Well as an IBO I do buy from myself and I do teach others to do the same, and I am not a door to door salesman. So doesn't this help prove what that LOS teaches is correct?
We are on the same page when it comes to Quixtar, or any company for that matter, or any business, following their rules better. If we take a close look at any corporation, I would be we could find several rules that are not being enforced.
Just because other corps aren't perfect at this, does it get Quixtar off the hook? No, of course not, but it does add perspective on the issue.
I don't mind watchdogs like QBlog and Lawblawg pointing out areas where they feel Quixtar can better enforce/change their rules. That is totally cool that they have such an interest in helping the company to become better.
If the critics are actually sincere about their motives of wanting Quixtar to become a better opportunity for more people, then I am supportive of them. If their goal is to get Quixtar shut down then I am not.
So I am with the critics that have opinions/ideas on changes that can be made, and I have implemented several concepts into my personal organization already.
Mo, I am sorry that you were involved in a group that, in your experience, did not make a decent attempt at following certain rules and regulations. I am sure that this group and others are becoming better in the future and will have better systems to enforce these rules so that IBO's can have more success.
The rest of your comments focus on how many ppl need to lose money in order for one to make money. This is not entirely accurate in my experience.
The IBO marketing plan rewards IBO's more for the success of their downline than for the failure. So as an IBO I get paid more to help my downline succeed than if they fail. So I have a vested interest in the success of each IBO in my organization.
On top of that, there are many instances where an upline will make less money than his downline. And even if the upline is making more money, if they are doing more work, shouldn't they earn more?
If I register a new IBO, and that IBO does not make money and quits, then I have spent my time, money, resources and energy to help them, and it was a lost effort. All that I have is the experience gained to help me not do that next time.
So my goal is to register IBO's and help them succeed, not to have them losing money. So what you are saying is not totally accurate.
You say that to be a winner you gotta find many losers, but I say that to be a winner, you gotta find and help develop many winners. It pays better and down the line you can actually have an exit strategy to enjoy the on-going income and extra time. If you had to keep replacing your group, you would just have another full-time job.
DF, I am not trying to "loot money from the effort of others". And you may think the Quixtar is a "scam" but it is not. It is a legal business opportunity that will continue to grow and get better every year.
Whoa,
What is going on with the comments?
I'm following this about as well as the 'plan.'
Qblog, do you need a staff?
Yes porkchop, I do need a staff. You interested?
Where are all of the pro-amquix folks to call this person a 'loser' ?
Posted by: df | November 1, 2004 10:23 AM