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October 31, 2004
TOD is now TEAM
By QBlog in
The Team of Destiny is changing its name. In a message to Team of Destiny members, Orrin Woodward announces that beginning Monday (Nov. 1) TOD will be known as T.E.A.M. (Together Everyone Achieves More).
Wow, what a creative name for a business. Looks like Woodward and the gang stayed up all night to come up with that one. They replaced one overused cliché (The Team of Destiny) with an even more tired and overused cliché (Together Everyone Achieves More). Rumor has it that the next name for Woodward's business will be "There's No 'I' In Team."
I'm thinking of starting my own MLM motivational business called "Sports Clichés Forever."
Woodward also announces a $1 price drop in motivational CDs (from $7 to $6). Sweet.
Now, I bet everyone will speculate about the "real" reason for the name change and I guess that's inevitable. It sure seems like it will make the Team of Destiny lawsuit against Scott Larsen a little more complicated.
Updated with a dash of sarcasm ;o)
Comments
Fired up! Name change seems to have worked wonders for Amway. Team Dream Scheme. Works for me. That Orrin is a genius.
This is a very smart move by TOD. Try doing a Google for TEAM.
do a google search for "together everyone achieves more"... I'll bet Orrin didn't. I particularly like the CafePress store. "Save The people under the stairs". ROFL!
You thought "Team Of Destiny" had too many sports references in Google...seems like Orrin should have used a less poular cliche.
151,000 results. and Orrin will start at the botttom.
Rogers, exactly! They DO NOT want to appear in google, so very common name like TEAM. TOD is not a common word, TEAM is.
Prospects are told TEAM or TOD or BWW is the new idea, hurry, get in before every body u know gets in under some one else.
Maybe!
By not appearing in google means there name, either used by them or 'negative' sites. With the smear campaign they are trying to 'fight' the 'negative'.
But I don't know....few blogs linking each other can work, either by +ve or -ve......
Man, I thought I would get a pat on the back for breaking the story. Damn.
Wow! Dropping the price to $6.00 on CD's that most likely only cost about $.38 to produce. What a deal! They must be barely breaking even! What ethical canoe paddlers this team is!
I don't see a problem with the new name. He can name it whatever he wants.
You guys sound like the same group of people that complained about the tax cuts. A drop in tape cost is a good thing, not a bad thing. They were already very inexpensive to begin with, and now they are even more inexpensive. That is a plus for the IBO's on the team.
I just bought a CD last week on sale at the store for $11. I thought it was a good deal for that CD, and even though it won't help me with personal and professional development in any way, it will still be entertaining to listen to.
The funny thing is that aside from you critics online, I don't really here anybody talking about the price of tapes/cd's being too high.
Chris wrote: The funny thing is that aside from you critics online, I don't really here anybody talking about the price of tapes/cd's being too high.
It is funny isn't it! And yes, non-Quixtar CDs / Tapes are well priced. They deliver what they promise.
Maybe if I get to pick up the tape myself, not shoved down my throat every month, and I don’t have to buy / move tape to qualify, I won’t have a problem at all. I’ll pick what I think will help, and return it if I don’t like it. Isn’t that how other CDs / Tapes are sold?
Maybe ppl are not told if they listen to this CD they'll be free in 2-5 years? Perhaps ppl don't complain because it is totally their decision and next month or next year they may not buy a single CD and still be in good terms with the ppl they see the most. (in Q it's your sponsor and upline). Maybe ppl are delivered what is promised that is good entertainment. Q tapes....what they do? Heard a tape Pigs don't know pigs stink? or dancing monkey? Employees and J.O.B are put down. I don’t know how they 'help' except a person hating his job.
Btw Chris, I took pride in my work, and I heard a lot of crap in Quixtar that put down the jobs. Now if I say something bad about Holiest of the holiest cow Quixtar, I'm negative?
PS: Yes I buy music CD or a DVD, once in a year maybe. SOT cost me $70 / month. Cheap my ass. (Sorry but it was targeted toward my upline, Ahmer Azam. Not you.)
I’ll spend $50 on LOTR DVD, so worth it. My decision, once in 2 years, well within my budget.
Maybe Broadbus company came after them for using the term "TOD" which is a registered trademark of Broadbus for "Television on demand".
http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/tod/tod_trademark.pdf
I checked the trade mark site for new trademark registrations for Orrin Woodward and did not see any other than "Team of Destiny".
A search on the copyright site shows that "Together Everyone Achieves More" is a trademark owned by "Middletown City School District Board of Education NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION OHIO 1515 Girard Avenue Middletown OHIO 45044"
http://www.uspto.gov/
OK, that's lame. I belong to Team Overcharge which is part of Team...
It sounds like school when they used to make you pick teams to compete on the chalk board. Inevitably, someone would always be the A-Team with someone filling the role of Mr. T. I pity the foo.
This probably sounded good at that leaders meeting where all the yes men and women agreed with Orin. How about the URL: http://www.teamteamsteamingteamousteam.whatever
It is nice of them to stop bilking their downline for the extra money they were charging for CD's. Especially since CD's cost less to produce and distribute than tapes. What else can be said other than that they are "Givers".
I'm tearing. Someone hold me.
Chris,
I don't have a problem with the CDs. $6 seems like a fine price to me. Cheaper would be nice but $6 ain't bad.
HOWEVER, You can't be serious about the name. Yeah, he can name it Big Giant Monkey Scam if he wants but that doesn't make it a good name. C'mon, the name sucks. It's one of the most overused cliches in all of sports. He might as well of named it "It is what it is" or "I think I can." Call a spade a spade my friend.
I can see it now:
"Let me tell you about my biz."
"What's it called?"
"Together Everyone Achieves More - TEAM"
"Ha, no really. What's it called?"
"That's it, isn't that an awesome name?"
"Yeah, I guess it is if you're a Pop Warner Football coach."
hmmmm....
I'm starting to believe the TOD/TEAM bubble is about to burst. Maybe in the next year or so Orrin will discover why most of the other Yager lines of sponsorship discouraged stacking. Heck, maybe he's already seeing it and that's why he feels the need to change the name.
So, why change the name? Are they being sued by Television on Demand? Probably not. Are people associating TOD with Amway and Quixtar? That's very probable. That would make me want to change the name. :)
I don't know about you, but to me Orrin sure seemed like he was going to great lengths to sound like this name change was "no big deal". In what other business is changing the name of the business NO BIG DEAL???
"Oh, and btw, a group of us were sitting around saying, we've created a bunch of confusion by naming all our subteams - Team Excellence, Team Go-Get-em, Team Badger...
So we said, what the hey, the BEST way to eliminate all that confusion would be to change the name of the whole TEAM ITSELF to ... TEAM! Yep, no biggie, we'll just give up our trademark, and change our website, materials, legal documents, but hey, TEAM, no big deal! "
I'm glad he says you can keep using stuff that says TOD - but hey, a REAL leader is going to get all the "new" stuff, right? I mean, you won't want to confuse your prospects/new guys by having the "start up" stuff say TOD, but the business you're now part of is "TEAM"....so you'll have to spend a BUNCH of money changing over your stock of give out materials, won't you???? And who benefits from that???
Quixmire,
What about "brand loyalty"?? After 5 years of pushing Team Of Destiny, creating a "name" for themselves...albeit it wasn't an overall good name it turns out.
But you are right, most companies would rather stay with a name forever than lose the recognition. Car dealerships do that....an established car dealer will sell his lot and the new owner KEEPS THE OLD NAME!! My wife bought her cars from Kruse's "Stark Hickey Ford" dealership. What kinda crap is this TEAM gonna stroke their egos with now?
"TEAM, founded 2004, with 5 years experience of dealing with supplier Quixtar....founded in 1999, with 45 years experience and proud history".....but don't you dare call us the other name. Or compare the fact that the only thing changed was the name and adding web services. Pay, products, methods, and control are the same.
(sarcastic mode on)
Actually, looking at the fact that Quixtar did it....TEAM should do just fine. (sarcastic mode off)
awwwh, and just think about the 100's of TOD blogs/sites out there that they are going to have to change now, and how about all the Quixtar links and references to TOD that are gonna have to change. Talk about confusing, but hey it's all in the name of protecting your image. The harder it is to find info about Orrins group the better off he is for it.
Oh and how could I forget, the Team of Destiny apparel that's gonna be out dated now. Whatever will the TEAM do? Why throw those old shirts and hats out and buy more of course.
TEAM -- there is no I in the word team....
...but there is in the word "Prof - I - t"
Keep paddling boys and girls, your canoes are sinking !!!
QBlog, my point is that it is just a name for the community he is developing. Each individual IBO already has a name for their business. Even Orrin probably has a seperate name for his business.
So choosing a "team" related name would make sense. I really don't think the name is all that bad, and I am not going to dis Orrin's intelligence on his name change. There are probably many reasons for that name change that are good logical reasons that were discussed before changing it.
So, yes, if it were me, I would have chosen a different name, but it probably would have been a team name, and you guys would talk trash about it being another sports cliche' and all this stuff.
I have found that most people like being part of a team, and a business team name is helpful in the process of organizing a community.
So what would you recommend as a better name for Mr. Woodwards organization?
Bah. Lame Chris. Passport's a stupid name for an MLM but you're not yapping about "trash talk" on those comments. Why can't you call a spade a spade?
The point: My money says Orrin Woodward didn't do a lick of Market Research or any sort of independent analysis on how the general population would react to that name. Sure, I can think of a lot of better names. Team of Destiny was a better name (though still pretty lame). Quixtar is a great name because it doesn't really mean anything but it makes an impression. TEAM is about the dumbest name for a business I can think of.
I thought the name "Passport" was a fine name as well. So maybe I am just a big idiot when it comes to picking names. :)
Passport
Team InFocus
Team of Destiny
T.E.A.M.
Team 5000
etc, etc...
When Apple computers was started, people made fun of their name. Even more people made fun of Amazon. Now people are making fun of T.E.A.M.
Are you suggesting that organizations should avoid using acronyms for the names of their groups? And avoid using sports cliches'?
So QBlog, you still didn't offer a better name.
And by the way, my friends church had a small group campaign where they wanted more people to join small group bible studies, and they called it T.E.A.M.S. - Together Everybody Accomplishes More Success.
It was a success and I couldn't imagine anyone telling them that they chose a bad name.
So I guess your view is that it is lame for a "business" community to use a name like that, but I don't think it is. Their motto is "Have fun, make money, and make a difference." I think that is a great description for a community called T.E.A.M.
Orrinix ? MoToFoBOs ?
As for the rest of the story... "How convienient."
anyway, back to topic... Orrin again makes reference to the "one million" member goal of TOD... err, TEAM. Seeing as we have seen information counting the US IBO count as not being much above 300K in the last 30 years, does Orrin expect to completely take over the US IBO leadership? Or just have a ton of people outside the US...and wouldn't they then be AMWAY and not Quixtar?
Chris wrote:The funny thing is that aside from you critics online, I don't really here anybody talking about the price of tapes/cd's being too high.
And for good reason. For example, one of my favorite bands, Incubus, doesnt come out with over 50 CD's a year with the same basic material on it and a new lead singer. Come to think of it, I cant recall any musician or band that produces CD's in this manner, hmmmmm? CD's offer "real" value in comparison to Amquix BSM CD's. Even crappy music that I hate offer better value to the end user(as long as the end user isnt me).
When you name a business, avoid cliches unless you're being cute. A cat litter business may call itself, "Think Outside the Box" (get it?) or some such cliche.
Is Orrin being cute? I don't think so. Go name your business whatever lame name you want. If you know anything about marketing then you'd understand what I'm talking about. I figured you'd know since you're in some sort of E-commerce business but I guess I'm wrong.
ChrisA,
I was actually referring to IBO "system" CD's, not music CD's. In my experience with the business, I just don't hear people talking about a $6 CD being too costly. It is rare to hear someone complain about the cost of the CD's being too high. It is usually just the critics here online that say they cost so much.
But I will be fair, and say that QBlog, who's blog we are all posting on, says that he doesn't think that the price of CD's are too high, so it just comes down to "some" of the critics complain about $6 being too high.
As far as the value, I get more value from a $6 business CD than a $11 music CD, but I still get both. I think that a balance of music/business is good.
My perspective is simple. The tools are very beneficial in helping me to develop both personally and professionaly. I do not believe that I would be having the success in business and life that I am right now without them.
I am very thankful that I was turned onto the "system" and I would recommend them for everybody, even if they didn't own their own business, because the CD's/Books will help improve their life greatly. This is the honest truth from my perspective.
I am sorry that you don't see the same value in the materials. I am sorry that you don't think $6 is worth it to hear a one hour talk from a successful individual, couple, or panel of successful people speak about principles and practices that have helped them to achieve their success.
Many of these principles and practices will help propel success in your life in many different areas, not just business. I think there is tremendous value in the system.
Man you humans can type.
Moderators, can you please put a limit on number of words? For looooong debates go to the forum. Get a room. Hoo hoo hoo
Reducing the price of the CDs is a bigger deal than I think we realize. The question is, who's getting the pay cut? Who is getting the demotion? Is it Orrin?
Where's the dollar coming from in the chain of command? Do Platinum's no longer see any tool money?
Perhaps you just hike the seminar tickets to make up for it, or the functions?
Let's not underestimate this. Changing the pay structure for tools is fundamental to who has the power in the AMOs.
They raise the tools price early in 2003, at least in BWW. Now they took it back.
There is also rumours that in WWDB, there gonna be $2.5 / tape. No confirmation yet.
While T.E.A.M. may be a cliche' this should hardly surprise anyone. How many times did Orrin say 'fired up' in that one little message? It's kind of like the many other overused words in the AMO vocabulary - awesome! excited! 'The Business'! negative! the system! edify!
Ever be wandering somewhere and hear these phrases as you're passing by folks? And if you hear more than one in the same sentence, you know you'd better run, and fast!
maybe he should have called it the FUCP! ??
Y'know, the Fired Up Canoe Paddlers!
Chris,
Would you say that the business is a simple or complex one?
My answer is that it would have to be simple in order for it to be duplicatable. If that's the case, then couldn't a CD pack of 4-6 CD's be put together and remain "The Training Pack" for a period of at least a year? As for cutting edge material, isn't that where seminars and a website comes into play?
Wouldn't this save the IBO tonnes of money and minimize the tool debate?
Do you get 4 or 8 tapes a month?
Think about it....many organizations work under the following structure...
a) Listen to a tape per day
b) Read 15-30 minutes (minimum) per day...usually a network marketing applicable book.
c) Attend an open once per week
d) Monthly function attendance.
On average, people are spending almost 20 hours per week on business, yet this does not even include showing the plan. Isn't this a lot of a simple, easy, duplicatable business? What's the real motive here?
Show 5 plans per week and you may be up to approximately 30-35 hours per week depending on travel time. Isn't this a lot of time to invest (almost a full time job) only to make an average of almost $2000 per year (according to average IBO incomes)
The only way to justify this time and money investment is to assume that people will go Platinum, Emerald and above. The problem with this is that there is no concrete evidence to suggest this will happen.
Believe me, Chris, I once believed this. In the late 90's, when I saw diamonds break, left, right and centre, and the annual sales kept climbing like crazy, with rooms packed full of people, I was excited.
The problem is...I no longer see that happening. I see minute growth, organizations shrinking, smaller functions, held by top crowns in the business. I have to wonder if this is viable anymore.
What is your take on the viablility of this business? How to you respond to a person who has seen a decrease in all of the organizations he has been a part of?
Truthseeker,
The whole concept of this business is building "communities".
Sometimes a community will go through a period where there is momentum and growth, then sometimes there will be dips and declines. This is normal for all communities.
So the organization that I am part of might be having a decline, while I might be having my best months ever. It really comes down to the work that you are doing with you organization. You can ask yourself the following question:
"Am I adding to the growth or decline of the overall organization?"
Just because another group in the organization is not growing, does not mean that mine will not grow. And I strongly believe that there will be a huge period of growth for Q in the next couple of years, similar to the growth of Amway you are talking about.
So as far as your time commitment comments, this is an issue that I would like to see presented more accurately.
In my organization we are not taught to tell people to invest 10-15 hours per week or anything like that. To make claims on time investment doesn't seem right. I think it would be fair to suggest that this business can be built in their spare time.
But let's look at the time investment you talked about.
My question would be, what were the IBO's doing with that time before they were in the business?
Listening to a tape usually doesn't take extra time because it can be listened to in the car while you drive from point A to point B.
Reading a book for 15 minutes per night is not unreasonable by any means. Most people will consume more than 15 minutes of tv commercials each night before bed.
The 2 hotel meetings per month that an IBO attends are business building hours and this is where they can help their new IBO's get the bigger picture and see the business plan from a professional. So these hours are very effective and translate into income.
The same goes for the monthly seminar, and they will actually get significant training to help them to be more profitable and more successful in developing their community.
We also have training packs for the newest IBO's that are exactly what you are talking about, but to suggest that those packs would last the year it too much I think. I like the aspect of continuing education and I see people benefit from it.
This "tools" debate that you speak of is not an issue in our organization. People are learning from the tools and they are benefiting from them.
When it comes to building communities, I would consider following advice from someone who is successful in that area. I am open to hearing advice and tips from you and others, but it is easy to come up with ideas without having tried them out first to see if they work.
The business IS duplicatable, and I AM seeing it work. IBO's ARE able to build their businesses in their spare time and EVERYONE has the same business plan and the same chance to achieve levels like Platinum and above.
Your numbers are faulty because you are comparing average time spent building the business to average income earned.
The problem is that you have no statistic to show how many "active" IBO's spend anywhere near that amount of time building their businesses.
In my organization, the IBO's that are investing that amount of time and energy are seeing growth. But by no means is every "active" IBO, (according to Quixtar's definition), investing that amount of time in their business.
So to try to figure a return investment on time spent, we would need more reasonable figures.
And to answer your initial question, in the complex world of business ownership, this business is a simple one.
Chris:
All you do is justify, justify, justify. Haven't you learned, or are you too brainwashed?
The zombies in my company doing this are leaving work early (4:30pm) and getting home late (1-2am). I know this because I know the babysitter. That's @ 7 hours/day for 5-6 days/week. That makes for a 40 hour week + expenses!
Instead, get a job after work (get a job at the Sunglass Hut or something) and work 25 hours/week. But, don't spend the income. Take that cash and put 30% in bonds, 70% in stocks. Let that earn 10% (on average) for the next 10 years.
Your money will double every 7 years.
After 10-15 years, you will be far better off, without the stress of lost friends/family, sleep deprivation and buying unnecessary product.
And you'll get a great discount on sunglasses....
DF, I like that you offered a suggestion of an alternative. The investment strategy is arguable, but still possible. If someone just wanted to make extra income, that would be a great idea.
I don't know of anybody personally that is putting in that type of time commitment and not getting results and earning income. I know this is very possible, but this is not common in my organization.
There are however, people that put in time, but not wisely spent, and so they don't earn as much income. For instance, if you read, listen, and attend every event, you will get knowledgeable about this business and industry but that time spent doesn't translate into income.
So adding consistency of business plan presentations and mentorship could be the needed ingredient. If your co-workers are putting in the combination of said things, it is very possible that they will be able to walk away from that job early, have an increased income, and have more time to spend with their families.
It seems that their jobs are not helping them achieve their goals, and so they need to do something extra. Why is it so bad that they choose to build a Quixtar-powered business rather than work at sunglass hut? Both seem like reasonable options, and if the choice was mine I would rather be an IBO any day.
After 10-15 years I will be much better off than if I worked at Sunglass Hut and invested that extra income. So thanks for the advice, but no thanks. Being an IBO is the much better choice.
Chris,
I just read the book by Scheibeler. Most of what he experienced is so true to what I experienced. Perhaps you should read it.....to help you with your perspective. Afterall, isn't that what you are doing by constantly rebutting critics.
Truthseeker, I have it downloaded on my desktop, but I am still on another book. Yes I do plan on reading that book. I am open to hearing perspective from critics and engaging in respectful debate.
My vision is to build my organization to the size of filling arenas, and have a solid infrastructure of training and education so that my team has the best chances for success.
I have and will implement some of the ideas I get from critics like yourself to help improve my organization. But when I hear critics talk about how it doesn't work or how IBO's are just trying to get over on prospects and stuff like that, I get frustrated because we are not all like that.
Many of us are building our business with honesty, respect, integrity and love. People are attracted to this type of community, and for these reasons, my organization grows every month and people are more excited now than ever before.
So when I do get a chance to read his book, I will let you know my thoughts, but there are so many positive books worth reading as well, so I hope you understand if I don't get right to it.
On another note, I recently attended a church conference, and there were guest speakers speaking on the principles from Rich Dad Poor Dad. Each of the 2 speakers were worth 10's of millions of dollars each. One of them may have been over $100 million net worth, I can't remember.
They mentioned Amway in their talk, and they said very supportive things. They talked very highly about Robert Kiyosaki and said that his principles were worth following.
Neither of these 2 speakers had ever been in Amway or spoken at a conference. They just knew about it and had respect for the company.
So why should I listen to a bunch of critics on a site like this, when some of the most respected people in my state only had positive things to say about network marketing and Rich Dad Poor Dad?
Who's advice would be more worth following? Simple question.
Chris,
I hear what you are saying. You do have to sift through the comments and determine for yourself what is valid or not. I have read your comments, listened to Dexter, Jody, Duncan, DeVos, Qblog, and the people who have said no to me. I have listened to the unhappy relatives, I have listened to my upline, as well as all of the big names who have endorsed this business or struck it down. I have my own conclusions about this business.
Who's advice is worth following? The one that makes the most sense to you.
I've seen my emerald's lifestyle. He makes less than me, overall, and does not have a lot, from a material standpoint to show for his "success". He is also back at work after being a founder's emerald. I have seen my diamond's lifestyle. A lavish one at that. Although he has told me that he has taken a major hit lately. He also said, in a closed meeting, that the business was "right" but the leaders throughout the business were "wrong", meaning there was rampant greed. I respected what he said, because it came from the heart. Then, he pulled the same greedy stunts.
I have seen firsthand, an emerald friend who lives in the area from a different organization, totally denounce his executive diamond's intentions, because the exec was ripping people off. And this is one of the most famous people in the business saying he was in the "tool business" as his primary business.
I have seen all of the lawsuits by major pins against each other. I have seen a major shrinkage in the business of a person who's business is one of the most premier in the business...Markerman. I have heard his say "This is now, that was then....and....this is us and that was them" trying to distance himself from others.
I have been backstage at major FED celebrations, mixing with the biggest pins. I was also asked to put the diamonds in order before they went out for a diamond parade. I had to assemble them and organize them. While I was awed at the opportunity to do so, I felt very bad afterwards, knowing that some of these people were the biggest @#$holes around, with some joking about the "peasants" in the crowd.
I have heard one of the biggest, hottest growing pins in the business pump up the crowd, walk off of stage, and trash the whole event once his microphone went off.
I have seen the low profit from following TOD's stacking technique.(As a platinum)
I have showed the plan and mad phone calls, to wits end. I have driven too many miles to count. I have had great success and many quitters around me.
I was always one of the first to show up at meetings and the last one to leave, counselling people.
Chris, I value my opinion. I am my own critic. I have tried to build the business without the upline, in my own way.
For you to say...but my organization is different and we are on track for great growth is great to hear, but I question this as I've seen too much to know that what you are saying is too idealistic.
I, too, wanted to believe, but I've seen too much to warrant being led by these people.
You may read this and say, well....he's just a critic. He's an anonymous person on the web. That's fine, but I hope you at least understand that this company has received very real complaints and challenges that you will have to face and overcome to make this business right for you and your family.
No way Chris--the residual income of a menial, part-time, second-job outweighs the benefits of selling out and buying substandard profit.
That's the piece you are missing. There are other ways about this -- and the detriments of other alternatives are far less than Amway-based businesses.
Truthseeker,
First of all, the things you mention, about individuals doing things that you see as wrong, ie-greed, trash talking, etc. - is not just exclusive to network marketing.
In fact, those kinds of attitudes and people can be found in every industry and community. Even churches and charities.
But at the same time, that does not make it right, nor does that mean that you should just put up with it.
If I would have experienced those same things, I might have considered quitting.
Here is where you and other critics just get mad at my response.
I am not seeing that as I build my business, and I have been in all the same situations you have.
My upline founders emerald are doing very well without their jobs, and living a lifestyle that is very motivating. They are very very respected in our community and they truly show love to people.
They do what they say, and their key focus is integrity. My upline is a man of his word and I have learned a great deal with him to help me improve my life, not just my business.
The same goes for my upline founders Diamond. He is leading an organization with honesty and integrity and the forefront. He is the same man behind the scenes as he is on stage.
He has spoken many times about how he wants to make sure our organization tightens up all the legal aspects of our business, and he goes out of his way to make sure we are all positioned for the best success.
I have been privelaged to help out at events and be backstage as well, and I have never heard the types of things you mention. In fact, it was the opposite.
I had the chance to hear one of the biggest pins at Free Enterprise get off stage and then talk to a few diamonds/emeralds backstage.
I listened in and he was talking about how he prayed before he went on stage to deliver a message that would touch the newest person to help them believe in themselves, and how he hopes that God will answer that prayer and truly bless the audience.
I could go on and on about stories like this where the big pins have shown nothing but love, and have been extremely encouraging and positive.
Now just because I haven't heard it first hand doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So I am sure that I will hear something I disagree with soon. This is only natural.
What are the odds that nobody would have these kinds of attitudes. I have not yet worked a job in my life where I didn't come across these types of people. I even volunteered at a non-profit for a year and heard some of the worst of it.
So I can understand what you are trying to say, but here are my questions:
Is it possible that a Diamond can build a community that has the attributes you respect? That doesn't let greed take control, and someone who shows genuine love both on stage and off?
If you were to build the business to the level of Diamond, would you start acting like these other individuals that you heard, or would you stay the same person? Don't you believe that there are organizations out there that have genuine leaders who have great qualities and are leading their team in the right direction?
Just because you experienced some negativity, does that mean the entire business is that way?
I believe you started your business in the first place because you saw the positive potential of the entire program.
Help me and others to build our businesses without these negative experiences, instead of just encouraging IBO's to leave the business. When you encourage IBO's to quit, then they quit on their dreams, and often are left with no solution.
This business can help them achieve those dreams, and there is a way it can be built right. I am experiencing this. So anytime you offer comments that aren't just attacks, it is helpful for IBO's like me, and I can learn from your experience and implement new strategies and ideas into my organization to improve the success of everyone involved.
By the way, the TEAM depth concept is the smartest organizational structure that I have seen yet. I think more organizations should implement it. If you would like to debate this, then I would be up for it. I have analyzed this technique and it helps the newest IBO's out more, which I thought you critics would be for. This is a total benefit and is very exciting.
Hey Chris,
Don't get me wrong, I've seen a lot of good within the business. One of the best parts of it was the community aspect. I have many friends in the business. I am no longer an active IBO, but I do have active business with these people...sort of like a partner store relationship.
And, yes, there have been great seminars. Seeing Lou Holtz, George Foreman, and many others has been amazing. I've also heard from some great Diamonds.
I believe someone can build a strong and profitable business if he/she works hard enough. It would be a huge investment however.
One of the many challenges I have, however, is that the kingpins control the IBOAI. They protect their interests like hawks. Some of the most dishonest people in the business belong to that select group. You and I may diagree here, but would you not say that it is possible that there is some potential corruption.
As for the TOD model, it has some merits. I just don't believe it is all that it is cracked up to be. If it were so good, We would see bigger growth. Dex tried this years ago, with success and then eventual failure. TOD is trying it right now, only to have the lowest PV averages, hence the encouragement of 150 PV. They have slowed down considerably.
Only time will tell with this organization.
I just know this model is not for me as the effort is too significant for the return on my time investment, from a compensation plan point of view. From a tools income point of view, I cannot accept taking large sums of money from people without them succeeding. Rich was against it then and I believe he is not a big fan of it now....hence the move, by many diamonds to a 4 tape/month system, from 8 tapes per week.
Talk to you later, Chris.
Chris:
Get back your family & friends while you still can. You long justifications only show how deeply in denial you are.
Chances are, you are gonna lose your arse--maybe not nowk, maybe not next year, but eventually, statisically speaking, it is gonna catch up with you.
I knew a couple that wasted an entire decade to get to the Emerald pin in Amscam. They want those ten years back -- they want to see their kids grow up; they want to see what they missed.
Don't fool yourself. Don't buy into the hype. Set a goal and work toward it. Obviously you are coming to the 5 in the 5-year plan. If it isn't their, recoup your biggest loss, the loss of family.
Chris,
All of the people having problems with their upline name them. You have nothing but the most inredible experiences with your upline people and yet refuse to name names. Everyone should want to join them... or is it by naming names then the people who have had problems with them will compare notes?
Not an attack, just curious. Something I was thinking about after Imran started commenting about all the named critics with "everything to lose" and all the anonymous supporters "with nothing tho prove". And how backwards that is from what you would expect in a debate where "truth" is part of the argument.
Roger,
Great point. I have considered revealing more information of my situation several times. You are right that many people want to join our organization. We have many people that are ex-ibo's in BWW that learn about our team and join. I have several in my organization. They just love how dialed in our training system is.
What happens is all the information I give to critics gets used against me. There are some decent critics on here, like you, truthseeker, Mo, etc. Then there are others like DF, Hartman, etc. So I don't like giving out too much info because then they just want more and more, and use it against me. Does this make sense?
I have decided that I would rather just not go there. It is not because others would come forward, in fact, I haven't seen much on the internet about my Diamond or emeralds at all. This is a good thing and I would like to keep it that way.
It is easy to find flaws with any organization, and I am sure that ours has plenty. But there are many more good points to our organization than flaws, but the critics on here would only be interested in any drama they can dig up.
Most of the time I feel like a Red Sox fan in a room full of Yankees here on this blog. If I felt that these critics truly wanted to help Quixtar become a better opportunity, then I would be much more excited to work with them to develop ideas and help make an impact.
But after posting for a month or so, I now see that there are only a few who might think that way. Everyone else seems like they would rather get the company shut down. So it seems pointless to really get too detailed with critics with those motives.
--
DF,
Your comedy is getting pretty funny.
My family loves me, and several have joined me in business. I currently do not have one family member who is not supportive of this business model.
As far as my family goes, I have control over my time, and have developed enough residual income where I can spend time with them, and so I am truly blessed in that area.
Many people spend the majority of their time away from their family every day at their jobs, yet you seem to have no problem with that, but I spend as much time with my family as I like and I do not have a 9-5 job that takes time away from that, and you criticize me?
I am taking the entire month of December off to travel and see family members and that month I will make more money from my business than I have ever made in any given month, and I won't have to work for it.
I don't see why this lifestyle I choose to live bothers you so much. And I don't see how you being rude towards me helps make any point at all. But for comedy purposes it is great, so keep it up if you want.
"What happens is all the information I give to critics gets used against me."
A red herring and another excuse. Where's the outpouring of crap directed at Evan and Sharon? Not any. And they used their real names.
I don't care what you share or don't share but do us all a favor and drop the excuses. They don't become you.
Sharon didn't engage in any debate from what I have seen, and both Evan and Sharon were not involved in heavy dialogue with the critics on here.
If you follow my posts on here you see that since the first day, critics have been hitting my up for information, and every time I have given them some, it was used against me and they have always asked for more.
The very first day I was asked what my last bonus check was, group size, pin level, etc.
Then when I didn't tell them, it was used against me, then when I did tell them, they didn't believe me and demanded proof. So I have come to realize that it is just pointless.
If I were treated with more respect in that area, then I would have probably been very open. I am on record for saying several times that I had respect for you QBlog, and that if I was going to give that information to anyone it would be you.
I even made sure to do a screencapture on the last day of the month like you requested, but in recent comments you have lost much respect from me, and I am not going to send you that email like I planned. Sorry.
I had planned to give it to you the day before I left for vacation, which is coming up, and then let you use it for the Backbone project, along with my organization and pin level, but the way you have acted to me was rude, and shed some light on a different QBlog.
So I have decided to back down on the backbone idea. I was even going thinking about doing the phone debate for your site, but I am not into that anymore either.
I have a very successful business that is growing every month, and I teach people how to do the same. I love what I do, and I love helping people.
I initially thought that getting perspective form this blog would help me to be a better leader, so I engaged in some debates. I have gotten some useful ideas, but overall I sense that most critics here don't want to see new IBO's register and get started correctly under good leadership, but instead it seems like they would rather have the company shut down.
So I don't see the benefit of me participating in those projects on this blog because I don't believe they would be used for the right reason. I had alot of respect for you QBlog, and I thought this could be an objective blog. But I have been mislead.
Riiiiight.
Where did you learn to dance? You aren't a closet politician are you?
;o)
Chris,
I do respect your POV, hopefully as you appear to respect mine. I can relate my stories of what I experienced in Amway, and what I see going on with my wife in Quixtar, where she gladly bypasses everything with us in favor of TEAM, and has gone to lengths now to distance herself from me and my family. When we got out of Amway, I had no love for the company and left it behind me. I was not "active" as a critic until my wife was recruited by Orrin Woodward's Team... even after she successfully avoided recruitment from others in the past.
I was not recruited by the "critics" to be here. Unlike my wife who thinks I only believe the "few critics"... I believed this way BEFORE I found Scott, Qblog, etc. She believes only the upline and they gain financially from her... the critics do not gain from me financially. I am not being recruited to Passport or another "competing" MLM. I am covering the costs for myself to express my concerns. And I do it openly. Go to my site, read my manifesto, see who I am.
I am not an anonymous hiding behind three layers of anonymity like Qrush, (Fake name, free email address - no ID required, free blog service - no ID required) who supposedly is only speaking the truth and is in the right. Does it not seem backward that the "rebels" are known and the "empire" is anonymous??
Though I can not prove my "failure" with Amway/Quixtar other than the fact that I am not successful, it is not beyond the expectations of critics to say "Are you real?"
Honestly, I thought you'd love the webpage that QBlog showed from Quixtar cause it would give you the means to shut all the critics up. With your volume, multiple legs, and amount of retail sales that you could show you have, then appropriate belief of income could be made. That Quixtar page also does not count any money you make from BSM, which as a supporter of, I am assuming you are at the level you get money from that as well.
For the majority of the issues, I believe you and I have debated fairly well, given a few misreadings. (which is to be expected in our long posts)
Yes, there's no "I" in team.
But there's a "me"
Perhaps because of the lawsuit they had to change their name???
Hello to all you critics, I'm Really glad that you have got everthing you ever wanted out of life and that you feel that your dreams have all came true.
On another note Chis Im glad you have stuck around the business and are will to learn from the people who have a proven system in place for us to use when we are faced with obsticles like these.
I have an awsome upline in the business this couple I worked with in a nursing home and the are building really fast in the business. When I saw the plan I wanted no part of it till I found out that I could help people out with there life obsticles. I love to help people. I feel that my purpos in life was to help out other people. I feel through this business I am able to do that.
I know Chris personally and know he has since posting this quit 'the business'. He was a platinum level distributor making jack, because unless you run a big tool organization, you will only make about a third of the money or less that you are told you will make. Lets be real people, theres not a lot of profit in soap.
Isn't everything these days over cliched? Music, TV, magazines? What's up, rock on, git er done, them phrases are over cliched as well. TEAM is our goal, it's part of our name. We get out what we put in. I haven't been doing much, so I aint getting much. But what I have been doing is worth what I've been getting. And 6 bucks for a CD is nothing. Musicians get a chunk of our money if we buy their CD, so do actors/actresses, and they don't even make me feel good about myself! So I'm spending 10-20 bucks to feel like crap, when I can do that for free and go to my job and feel like crap. At least in the business, I am happy and excited and am hanging around people, instead of staying home, watching TV where in one hour, I'll hear enough negative b/s to last me a year. Sorry, I'd rather spend 6 bucks on a CD and hear from the top 1% of the income earners on how to run my business and feel good about myself that hey, maybe there IS something more out there, then spend 10 bucks or more on a stupid music CD that makes me feel crappy and depressed. I have learned alot from this business, and Wal-Mart is profiting from us, but no one is complaining about that, and Sam Walton's was even considered a "freak" b/c he was going outside of the "norm" Look at cell phones, the automobile. About the whole "brainwashing" thing, come on, lets get real here: the NEWS is brainwashing ya.: War, death, disease, famine, all in one hour of TV, and yet people will watch that instead of trying to better their lives. I was one of them.
I went to a meeting and I asked how come "THE TEAM" never refers to QUIXTAR or AMWAY in their presentations. I was told because they are emabrassed by QUIXTAR.
The why don't you sever the relations with QUIXTAR? Well -- No answer to that.
It appears they are a bunch of greedy monkeys trying to suck people in in a bad economy. But what goes around comes around.
Jennifer Granholm showed the Amway guy -- that money is not everything.
I recently was approached by a team member, first off I asked a flat out question, is this quixtar.Immediate answer was not at all. That is BS and why are they all brainwashed to think its not. I asked who signs your check.ta-da its Quixtar. I was also told that the starters of Team are brilliant and came up with this Idea, my ass they did, all they are doing is modeling an age old idea. Amway, oops I mean anyway why the secrecy of a business that obviously works for some people. Paying $6 to get motivated and learn something new is cheap. You can stop at a happy hour once a week and spend way more than that and to learn what? The thing that really turned me off to the whole system is that afer the meeting they had me thinking my job sucked and the only way to wealth is through the team. I have started multiple business and create great income and the secret to wealth is to live within your means. If you understand business than you should understand that MLM does work but why all the hype and the brainwashing and how come everytime you are approached with a "business opportunity" they never actually tell you what it is.
I have decided that it looks like a great business for them and not me.
I am not slamming the Team but the IBO that contacted me needs to educate himself before opening his mouth. This is an opinion and not a fact
Chris, you keep rocking your business. This business is the future and every one of you critics will be kicking yourself in the years to come. But you know what, the Team won't stand there and laugh, they will offer you a hand up and help you in any way they can. That is the genious and integrity of Orrin Woodward and every other leader on this team. they are out each and every night for all of us. You are so worried about the cost of all those cd's. Well you know what Orrin and chris developed that system, if they wanted to keep every penny for themselves they are entitled to it. But no, they pass the profits on to their teammates. Shame on all of you for tearing down such a humble, honest man.
In the lawsuit, or the copywrite stupidity of team, use of TOD is not too bad now is it?
Posted by: Imran Aziz | October 31, 2004 7:49 PM