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October 27, 2004
Setting the Record Straight
By QBlog in
Who is QBlog and what the hell is he up to?
As this blog's popularity and notoriety have increased, so too have the rumors,
misrepresentations and outright lies about me and my intentions. The about
page was designed to set the record straight but apparently more needs to
be done to communicate the truth. And so I've graciously agreed to be interviewed
by none other than myself. Yeah, it sounds silly but Barbara Walters was busy.
The Self Interview
Question - Don't you think interviewing yourself is a
little stupid? I mean, you control ALL the questions right?
Answer - Well, of course it's stupid but I take what I can get and I was just glad you wanted to ask me the tough questions. And you never know what I might ask, I'm as unpredictable as a hurricane.
Q - But aren't hurricanes... nevermind. Ok, first question. Boxers or briefs?
A - Huh?
Q - Underwear, which kind to you prefer?
A - Not sure what you're asking. Underwear?
Q - Nevermind. Moving right along. Are you now or have you ever worked for Bo Short, Passport or anyone associated with Passport at any capacity?
A - No. Absolutely not. Last I checked, Passport is an MLM and I'm not all that keen on the MLM way of doing business. I'm not saying MLM is bad, just that it's fundamentally flawed and I believe there are much better ways for the average guy to achieve his financial goals.
Q - So you work for Passport?
A - What are you smoking? How can I make this any clearer? I don't work for Passport, never have and never will. In fact, I think Passport is a stupid name for an MLM. It's a great name for a travel agency or something but for an MLM I think it's a crappy name. Of course, that's just my opinion.
Q - But aren't you behind some elaborate conspiracy to manipulate search engine results?
A - No, you've got me confused with Quixtar.
Q - Really now? Then explain your "Indians" post.
A - Gladly. First off you should understand that the "Indians" post was made in 2003, when the only blogs discussing Quixtar were this one and MLM Whatever Blog. The proliferation of blogs advocating and criticizing Quixtar didn't occur until many months later. Secondly, the post was made out of frustration at having to sort through so many poorly organized Web sites to find quality information. My vision (which still exists today) was to create a "Quixtar Watch" site modeled after Microsoft-Watch, MediaWatch and other watch-dog organizations. My idea was to try and develop some type of collaborative effort (similar to Open Source) that would maximize our efforts and minimize duplication and redundancy. I also wanted to create something that was purely objective, removing the "anti-Quixtar" rhetoric that I found all too frequently.
Q - Ok. But what about your "Crazy" post where you seem to advocate Google Bombing.
A - Again, the climate in which that post was made was very different than it is today. You must understand that. Also, it was a tongue-in-cheek "what if" commentary about the imagined frustration Quixtar execs must have felt seeing Scott Larsen's Web site ranked so highly in Google's search results. The post was inspired by a Wall Street Journal article about a group of Web hooligans who successfully tricked Google's search results by Google Bombing. Nothing ever came of the post (to my knowledge) and I never pursued it. The fact that Larsen's site has actually dropped in the Google results should say something about the post.
Q - Right. But why do so many Passport people link to you? Did you tell them to do that?
A - This is the Web. Anyone can link to anyone. No, I didn't tell anyone to link to me. My blogs have also been linked by liberals, democrats, amateur porn sites, Fark, professional journalists, homeless men and many, many others that I just don't know about. Did I tell any of them to link to my blogs? No. I may have suggested a link in a couple of rare occasions but I've never waged any sort of linking campaign. I could do that I guess but it's just not my style. I prefer to create a compelling blog and hope people like it enough to link it up. It's hard work but I love it. Just because someone links to my blog doesn't mean I agree with their opinions.
Q - But you link to a couple of blogs run by Passport Associates, doesn't that mean you endorse them and support them?
A - Are you for real? No dude. It just means I like the blogs and think other people might like them too.
Q - But why don't you point out the problems with Passport? Why do you only focus on Quixtar?
A - I don't "only focus on Quixtar" but this is the Quixtar BLOG and so I'm obviously going to direct most of my attention towards Quixtar. I don't spend much time criticizing the Palestinian suicide bombers either but that doesn't mean I endorse their actions. I do own the PassportBlog.com domain and plan to start up a blog similar to this one, when I get the time. Trust me, I have no special love for Passport, I think it succeeds in some areas and fails in others. I just don't know all that much about it and it's vastly less interesting to me than Quixtar right now. Maybe I'd spend more time discussing Passport if its Associates threatened to shut down my site.
Q - So why do you publish this blog?
A - That's a good question and the best answer I can come up with is that it's exactly the type of site I wished I could have read back when I was desperately searching the Web for objective (and timely) information about Quixtar.
Q - But you are a broke journalist right?
A - Hell yeah. Broke and starving. I have one suit that I wear every day and my kids don't have shoes and we usually eat boiled shoe leather for dinner.
Q - Right. Ok, so last question. What do you think of QRush?
A - Actually, I am beginning to like his blog more and more, especially since he removed all the anti-gay rhetoric. I'm actually flattered that there's some guy out there who's devoting a large portion of his blog to criticizing little ole me. That means I must be doing something right. I've always enjoyed good satire. What I didn't enjoy was the smear tactics being used against Scott Larsen. It seems that QRush has made a change for the better and I applaud the new direction his blog is taking.
Comments
Uh..work, I starting part time consulting busibness, doing pretty good so far.
And I apologize for the typos, too bad I can't edit them here. Forum, forum forum.
LMAO. That was just daffy enough to make it past the soap opera noise.
More comments about this later.
Ambivalent
Mo, how is that any different of a response than an IBO would have? The question for QBlog was what "much better ways" are there to achieve financial goals.
You gave the answer that is the most likely IBO answer. "I started a part time business, doing pretty good so far".
The world is full of prospering small business owners and even [gasp] successful employees that have nothing to do with MLM.
The list of alternatives is endless. What do you like to do Chris? Maybe we can help you choose something you have a passion for and find a way to make a successful business or career out of it.
Or perhaps you have a passion for selling soap and drawing circles - in which case, congratulations on finding your bliss.
Chris wrote>>Mo, how is that any different of a response than an IBO would have? The question for QBlog was what "much better ways" are there to achieve financial goals.
You gave the answer that is the most likely IBO answer. "I started a part time business, doing pretty good so far".
Reply>>Difference, truth. I am not saying $7.5 cheque is great. I have made at LEAST $600 PROFIT (Revenue - Expense) working 10-14 hours whole month.
And I'll yet to see the writeoff.
Lawdawg,
Your comment doesn't really offer any insight to my original question here for QBlog. I am curious as to what the "much better ways" there are for the average guy to achieve his financial goals.
To help establish a comparison, let's use the level of Emerald. Well, I don't need to explain Emerald to you critics because you know it well. For the sake of the example, let's just say they have built solid depth, dozens of levels deep in 3 legs, with well over 7500 in outside volume.
I think we can safely assume that an Emerald can pull in $200k per year from Q and BSM's. The majority of emeralds would not need their day jobs at this level, and are able to spend their days with their kids or doing what they want.
Many of them still spend time a few nights during the week continuing to build their business, but this can be set up to not require their time. Especially for longer than usual time frames like 6 months to a year, where they can travel with their family, and have their business run without them, earning them income the whole time.
These Emeralds are also able to share their success story with friends and family and offer the same opportunity to them to live a similar lifestyle so that they can do it together.
So what opportunities are "much better" for someone wanting to achieve these results and why?
Mo,
Great, so your making like $40 per hour with your business. I applaud you. Most people have potential to do far better than they are doing if they are willing to do the work.
Unless I am wrong, your business takes a specific skill that not everybody has, and requires trading time for money. If this was the average joes goal, there are many ways to achieve this including just getting a higher paying job. What are your thoughts on my post below?
Chris,
What opportunity is better than the big Q?
Well, it depends on who you ask. If you've been losing money on your business as the vast majority of IBO's out there are (the ones "investing" in the system, that is), then you'd be better off cutting peoples' lawns or selling lemonaid.
Of the 300 000 + IBO's out there in North America, how many would you estimate are making a profit after expenses?
Of the people making a profit, how many are making a total that is worthy of the time commitment?
I would love to hear your estimated percentages?
But...if you are going with the "Facts don't count when you're dealing with a winner" mentality, of course none of this matters.
I feel very bad for the people who blindly follow their leaders after years and years of nothing to show for it but time wasted and money lost.
And where exactly the Emerald $200 K come from? from their downline who loose money in the hope of making some one day. 99% of them won't and will be replaced by others.
At any given time, it is a negative pyramid which is losing money if every body is counted. Ppl are decieved that in 4-6 months they'll be making money. How many have gone platinum in 4-6 months? Is this your 'opportunity'? Is the scam of lies and deception = a business?
And why do many lies? Do you tell prospects you are prospecting them for Quixtar previously known as amway?
read drtobacco.com, he reminds me a lot of you.
Also, My business is just 2 month old. Yes it requires a specific skill set. Every human has some skill which he can polish and make money, or can learn new one. In few months, My target is to make it $3k / month keeping it a side business. Which was my Q-Dream. I say honest, love what I do, much relaxing work. I just love it.
How many Millionaires Quixtar has products?
.046%?
How many are in US, 4-6% of all households are.
Where are better opportunities then? Obviously outside Quixtar.
So everyone who does Quixtar can make it to Emerald? Since we're in La La Land . . .
Better pursuits than Quixtar:
Inventor of major product, system or software
Bestselling author
Founder of major fast food franchise
Owner of popular, successful beauty salon
Owner of any successful business doing what you enjoy.
Winning the lottery.
Founding and owning a successful MLM company.
If I had the time I could give you a million more.
Why is not working and collecting money from your downline the only criteria for success, anyway? Methinks you didn't read my post too carefully.
Name one Emerald pulling $200,000 a year from Quixtar and BSMs.
QBlog,
I like the interview. But maybe if you stopped feeding the shoes to your kids...they could wear the shoes instead. (grin)
I admire that fact that you are willing to take a stand to defend yourself against the fabricated accusations in an open discussion.
Too bad Qrush, the so-called "defender of Quixtar" doesn't bother to defend Quixtar, but instead just assaults others without support of the accusations. Of course, if I were to anonomously make posts which no one could directly confront or reply to in the same forum, I would make $#!+ up too.
Becoming an expert in something a great way to make a lot of money. It sounds pretty vague but it truly isn't that complicated. Pick a topic and read everything you can about it. If you read about a topic for an hour a day, by the end of 1 year you will be an expert. If you read for an hour a day for three years, you will be in the top 1-3% for that particular topic. The top people in any field are always in demand. Here's an idea: Read everything you can about the Sarbanes-Oxley legislation that mandates accountability for the financial statements of publically-held companies. Whether you agree with the legislation or not is irrelevant, it is here to stay. This one little plant that I work in will have 12 auditors on site for two weeks to make sure we are in compliance. If you are an expert in "Sarbox" as it is called, you can work for an auditor or you can do compliance consulting for corporations. Everyone needs those services right now because there are very few experts in the field.
This is only one example. There are limitless possibilities.
Watch for Quixtar Qrush's response at http://qrush_quixtar_blog.blogspot.com/
Chris -
There are thousands of better ways to achieve virtually any financial goal than MLM in general, and sponsoring-focused MLM specifically.
Using Am/Quix as an example: out of 227K (very conservative est.) 'active' distributors, only about 4K have a gross revenue from Amquix of $25K. How many of those actually realize any retail mark-up? Anecdotal evidence is that not all of them do, specifically the 'personal consumption network' groups. So $25K, split amongst some number of subordinate distributors. So lets say you get to keep $12K gross.
At that rate, you would be better off getting a part-time job and putting the proceeds into savings, or doubling your house payments.
And therein lies the answer to "what would be better?" Is your time worth that little? Do you not have any marketable skill or talent that you could use to generate additional revenue? Can you paint houses? Can you program? Can you fix cars? What can you do? Isn't there anything of value that have inside of yourself to offer the world?
I think that everyone does. In fact, I think that many of the people that turn to MLM do so out of a lack of belief in themselves and an unwillingness to face the challenges that a conventional business represents. Why else would so many accept the poor odds, negative net, and ethical issues that so many people in MLM face?
Also, I take issue with 'Emerald' being worthwhile goal. First, we can't assume than most Emeralds will have a gross revenue of $200K, even with BSMs. The ones that I know personally sure don't. Secondly, BSM money means (according to Amway itself) accepting a revue stream with serious ethical issues.
So which is better? Saving enough to open a conventional business with a reasonable chance of success, or mortaging your integrity on the lottery-like odds that you might make the median income for a college graduate?
The answers to my original post still go unanswered.
QBlog, I asked you what you meant from one of your statements, and instead you proceed to ask me questions without answering mine.
I am trying to give you a foundation to compare careers so that you can offer these "much better" alternatives that you have mentioned.
I am not a supporter of the "Quixtar is the best opportunity in the world" stance. I believe that it is one of the great opportunities available in the world today, but there are many. It ultimately comes down to what the goals of an individual are and whether the big Q can help them achieve those goals.
So for the sake of this debate, I gave you an example of the Emerald level. If you do not agree with my description, then please let me know what you feel are better numbers.
First of all, I am referring to a "Founders Emerald" because if they can't qualify 12 out of 12 months then there business is not solid and needs more depth.
The average Founders Emerald makes around $100k per year according to Quixtar's published incomes.
Then there is BSM profits on top of that, and I was lowballing compared to what the critics on these sites have stated that Emeralds make from tool profits.
Do you feel that my description was unrealistic? If so, let me know what you would consider realistic.
Truthseeker wrote: "If you've been losing money on your business as the vast majority of IBO's out there are (the ones "investing" in the system, that is)".
How would you even begin to form a statement like that? In order to come up with that analysis, you would need to know what percentage of IBO's were "investing" in the system, and then get the average income from that group of people, and then figure out what there profits after expenses would be, and allow for a reasonable time involved before assuming they would be profitable.
Neither of us have this statistic, so I could just as easily state that the average IBO that is "investing in the system" is profitable after expenses by their 6th month. But since neither of us can prove this in any way, why would you assume they are all losing and not gaining.
To be profitable, one would truly need to focus on activity. No matter how many tapes and books you inhale, if you never show the plan or sell any products, you don't make any money.
So in order to get success rates and average incomes, you would need to poll the IBO's who are doing a fair minimum of activity as well as "investing in the system". I believe that if we had this statistic, it would show a much more profitable group of IBO's.
Mike wrote: "So which is better? Saving enough to open a conventional business with a reasonable chance of success, or mortaging your integrity on the lottery-like odds that you might make the median income for a college graduate?"
OK Mike, let's play your little game. So average Joe goes to a hotel meeting for Q and gets registered. He never does another thing from that point on at all. Q adds him to the average income for IBO's for that year. If that is the effort that Joe puts into a business he starts, what business is he ever going to make money in? The answer is NONE.
So using broad averages like you do is an unfair comparison.
Waymee, I commend you on a very orginal response, but just like MO, your options are just ways to make more money. If average Joe just wants more income, then getting a higher paying or second job is a worthwhile vehicle to achieving his goals.
On top of that your plan tells people to invest around 1000 hours of education on the subject to become top of the industry to make that kind of money. If IBO's invested that amount of time into Q education before launching their business, they would start with all the skills necessary to be wildly successful right off the bat! So that comparison is just not realistic at all.
Most people that I show the plan to want to have both Time and Money. They want to earn enough money for a significant lifestyle ($10k/mo+), and have time to do the things they really enjoy, similar to early retirement on a decent income.
So until I hear something along those lines that compares with the Q opportunity, it still doesn't answer my question. You can try to argue that IBO's can never be free, but I believe they can, and it does require consistent activity, mentorship and training, which most IBO's choose not to do and so the success rates get skewed because of this.
Lawdawg, when did I ever say that everyone who does Q will make it to Emerald? I do think that if you compare time commitment, work effort, investment, and learning curve, that one has a much better chance of going emerald than the majority of similar time/money opportunities available.
So I am still waiting to here these opportunities that are "much better" than a Q Founders Emerald at $200k?
And while we're on the topic, I personally know a double diamond, two emeralds and a sapphire and NONE of them are close to retired. In fact, ALL of them work Quixtar as a full time job keeping their group together.
As far as Chris's fantasy about spending quality time with your kids, let me tell you a story that should shed some light on that: The double diamond was in from out of town to work with my father-in-law's group. He had his 13 year old daughter in tow with the plan of leaving her sitting by herself at the motel room during 12 hours of "working the business." This was supposed to be a father-daughter 'getaway' for them. My wife and I were furious and felt sorry for her and took her to a theme park for the day.
Yeah. . . . nice family time.
Give me a break.
I listed several that were better, Chris.
Here's another one: get a professional job doing something you really love, work hard at it and save your money. Start investing in real estate or the stock market. Retire. Enjoy your retirement.
What is the average time investment to reach the "Founder's Emerald" level for those joining A/Q since 1983?
What is the average net profit or loss for all years combined for those leading up to the "Founder's Emerald" level for those who have joined A/Q since 1983?
Answer: The average guy can do well to find something he loves doing, do it very well and invest his money wisely while not spending more money than he makes (debt avoidance). Follow that "old-fashioned" advice and you'll be just fine.
Question: You quoted a dollar amount, I'm just asking for a name. One name. Any name. Is it an unrealistic number? I dunno. You tell me. I'm just asking for a name.
Now hold on Lawdawg.
The story you mention is the choice of the individual. If your version of that story is accurate, then that is the type of person that would do that whether or not they are an IBO. And that is without hearing their side of the story.
If you want to tell stories like this, I can tell of many similar stories of non-IBO's as well.
As a double diamond, that individual should easily be making enough money where they have no sort of 9-5 type job, and they control their own hours. That person might spend more time with their kids than any of us do by far.
If quality time with their family is something he is seriously motivated for, then he is in a position to do it. Whether or not he chooses to is his personal choice, but the point is that he can make that choice and not necessarily sacrifice lifestyle like the average joe would have to.
On top of that, when has that double diamond ever said that it was his goal to stop building his business? See this is where many critics can get confused. That double diamond can choose to keep building his business, and stay active in all aspects of it.
Or he can choose to implement a retirement strategy, communicate that with the team, and over a short period of time, exit the business with solid leadership in place to continue the growth.
That double diamond can then begin leveraging his money into several different ventures such as real estate, stocks, savings, or venture capitalist work. Or perhaps he has enough saved already to simply retire and not earn any interest on his money, but simply keep it in a safe :). The choice is his, but the simple truth is that he has this choice, where the average joe does not.
So the Q opportunity can help the average Joe to achieve that goal.
> "What is the average net profit or loss for all years combined for those leading up to the "Founder's Emerald" level for those who have joined A/Q since 1983?"
Neither you nor I can get this statistic, so all we can do is speculate.
This is like me asking you, "what is the average time/money investment for the average citizen to earn $200k/yr in return from their real estate/stock market investments?"
I still think that the average person has a better chance of earning that type of income through Q than your plan. But I will say that I think a combination of the 2 would be a smarter move, (especially in lucrative real estate markets).
Qblog, your answer ducks the question. You don't address how that is a "much better" way of achieving the goals.
I gave you example goals based on my experience of the average responses I get from people when I show the plan and ask what their financial goals are.
In fact, the majority of people I talk with are not that interested in more money, but they want to live at least the same lifestyle they have, but without trading the time for money.
They understand that in order to get free time, that they will need to invest time upfront, an they understand that building a business that can eventually run without them being there can help them achieve those goals.
I am still waiting for your "much better" alternative for these goals.
The majority of people I know that have done your "investing" plan have lost money recently. Give me an example of this "investing wisely" option you know of, and how they have a better chance of achieving their goals by doing it.
How much would they need to invest? For how long? In what stock?
As far as your question to me about naming an Emerald and their exact income, I am not in a position to release facts about another individuals income on here for you to post. You know this and that would be unethical of me.
All that we can go on is averages for the case of this debate. In fact, what Founders Emerald could a critic on here name that is not earning $200k per year? And in the random chance that someone actually knew the Emeralds financial statements, and was able to somehow prove them, that Emerald would still be far below average, and wouldn't make for an average example.
I was just using averages that I thought every person on here would easily agree to. In a recent post, a critic threw out the $300k figure for emeralds and tried building a case that because they made more money from their BSM business than their Q business, that was how they were able to get to emerald in the first place.
Why didn't you ask that person to name any emerald making that much? Why is it that when a critic makes statements like this that you don't question them?
> "Is it an unrealistic number? I dunno. You tell me"
QBlog, are you seriously going to act like you "dunno"? Or is this another one of your famous 'turn serious answers into sarcastic answers' moments?
For the sake of this debate, we will use a realistic figure of a founders emerald Q income plus BSM income that you think is fair. Most critics claim that BSM income is more than Q income, so if the average Founders Emerald makes $100k, then according to all these critics, that average Founders Emerald would make over $100k in BSM income.
So are you able to show me what options are "much better" for the average joe.
I am so surprised that the critics are having a hard time on this one. They are quick to point out the flaws in this opportunity, but then they aren't so quick to come up with a better alternative.
Of course this post is recent so I will allow time for some good responses, but I am truly surprised. I mean, even I have opportunities that I can name that compete with Quixtar.
They don't have to, but if someone says they know of "much better" ways, then I would love for them to share them, or admit that they don't actually know of something better, or at least get a debate going on this topic and let all sides be heard.
By the way QBlog, your wrote: "Answer: The average guy can do well to find something he loves doing, do it very well and invest his money wisely while not spending more money than he makes (debt avoidance). Follow that "old-fashioned" advice and you'll be just fine."
There is no evidence that this is a "much better" way for average joe to achieve his goals. It is just "another" way. In fact, if the average joe loves doing the business, and builds it the old fashioned way like I do, then it sounds like your saying the big Q is the way to go.
Chris -
I am not playing a "little game", I'm using data from AmQuix themselves. The number's don't lie - either this 'opportunity' is a success rate akin to casino gambling, or a lot of people are getting in that clearly shouldn't. Which is it? Which is the lesser of two evils? I won't even go into the depth that LawDawg or Scott Larsen will - I think the Platinum numbers apeak for themselves.
For the record: is it OK that a bunch of people get in and fail if it makes you about the same money you would get anyway with a college degree? Because if you think that it is, then this is hopeless.
You don't seem to understand what several of us are trying to state:
Succeeding in a sponsoring-oriented MLM means that a lot of other people are not succeeding. The flip side of your response is 'why did they get in to begin with?'
And the answer to "what's better" is, to phrase it differently, is the sub-set of all businesses with modest start-up cost and a reasonable chance of success that do not require a second, hidden business to make a profit. There are thousands. The AmQuix data is clear - most people would be better off mowing lawns or shoveling snow.
What if I told you that you could have your own retail hand-tool distribution company for about $6.5K in start-up cost, and probably net $35-50K in your first year?
I opened a garage that I worked in part-time at the age of 23 with $1100 dollars - cash. I traded rented for repair work, paid cash for parts, worked my ass off and cleared about $40K the second year.
Want more? I have a friend that owns several mall kiosk. He opened up one for $1500 - his inventory was on consignment. He and his girlfriend operate it, and they will net about $35K this year.
And the great thing about all of these business is that nobody had to go out and convince a hundred other people and through money down a rat-hole just so they could make money. They have time for their kids, they work regular hours, and we don't avoid picking up the telephone when they call.
Do you want more specific examples? I can put you in contact with some of these people if you are serious about looking at viable alternatives to the crap-shoot that you're involved in...
The double diamond is working full time (and then some) on his QUIXTAR business - not a 9-5 job. So are all the others.
I asked his daughter, it's always like this for her. She hardly spends any real time with her parents and is often left in the motel room on these fun "family" trips.
So is it a 2-5 year plan to financial independence? How long does it take to reach Founer's Emerald on average. You are so sure that yours is the best way and you say this in the same post where you admit you have no idea.
Chris:
Truthseeker wrote: "If you've been losing money on your business as the vast majority of IBO's out there are (the ones "investing" in the system, that is)".
How would you even begin to form a statement like that? In order to come up with that analysis, you would need to know what percentage of IBO's were "investing" in the system, and then get the average income from that group of people, and then figure out what there profits after expenses would be, and allow for a reasonable time involved before assuming they would be profitable.
Neither of us have this statistic, so I could just as easily state that the average IBO that is "investing in the system" is profitable after expenses by their 6th month. But since neither of us can prove this in any way, why would you assume they are all losing and not gaining.
Let's forget about manipulating stats, etc. Ask people who are currently in the business how they are doing, and seek an honest answer. You will find the truth about what I'm talking about.
Then, seek out what I'm sure you've already heard before...DeVos's comments on Directly Speaking 1 and 2.
The founder was concerned then about tool abuses (making money off of other peoples' backs), as is every bigwig in the mighty Q but you don't think there is a problem? This scares me.
Chris said:
"I am so surprised that the critics are having a hard time on this one. They are quick to point out the flaws in this opportunity, but then they aren't so quick to come up with a better alternative."
Chris, I was eager last month to offer the alternatives you request in my post here:
http://sinkinginquixand.blogspot.com/2004/09/alternatives.html#comments
You were the first to comment on that post (using your futurecrown psudonym) saying:
"I do want to say though that I appreciate this post as it is at least the first example of someone who has a negative opinion of this business to at least offer some solutions to IBO’s instead of just opinions of their businesses. If an IBO is reading this and decides not to build the business, there are a few very good suggestions on this post worth looking into."
Are these no longer good suggestions?
Lawdawg wrote: "You are so sure that yours is the best way and you say this in the same post where you admit you have no idea"
Did you not read my post? I clearly said: "I am not a supporter of the "Quixtar is the best opportunity in the world" stance."
I am saying that the diamond you refer to is making the choice to build the business the way he is, and could implement a strategy for more free time if he chose to, but he chooses not to for whatever reasons.
Maybe he is doing what he is passionate about. That would make people like QBlog happy because that was his "much better plan".
On the flip-side, maybe he is greedy and he is a work-a-holic and just can't stop. There are people like that in every profession.
Maybe he has not built solid depth, and he focused on building very wide, unstable legs, and he is busy "spinning plates" trying to manage a business that is too big for him.
The bottom line is that he could build depth in his organizations and train leaders to build depth, and implement an exit strategy and exit the business, if he wants to. But he might not want to and that is his choice. If he is the type to leave his daughter in a hotel room, that is his choice based on the way he chooses to live his life.
At the level he is at, he likely makes over $million per year, unless he is not really double, but just hit that level years back, in which case he might make less. So with that type of income, he could easily be free. So he is not forced to build his business, but he chooses to.
If he is worried that he might not benefit from BSM income if he walks away from that income, then he should solidify depth in his legs so that he has a solid Q income, and then diversify the investing of that income to help secure his families financial future.
Mike wrote: "either this 'opportunity' is a success rate akin to casino gambling, or a lot of people are getting in that clearly shouldn't. Which is it? Which is the lesser of two evils?"
You also asked me if I am OK with making money off of people that quit. Or I guess you are asking if I am ok with being in a business where so many people quit.
I think I understand where you are trying to go with this, so I guess it all comes down to perspective.
We could take the following famous quote and switch the first 2 words to phrase it as a question:
"Is it better to have loved and lost than never to have lost at all?"
Ethically I feel comfortable with registering someone as an IBO because they are making an attempt to go after their dreams and goals.
I have limited control over their success, beyond teaching them how to work the business, and driving depth through their organization so they at least can see through example how to build the business.
So ultimately it is up to them to do the work to succeed. It is just a business, and either they will treat it like one or not. I agree with critics that say they should keep financial statements and treat it more like a traditional business. I am all for that.
I see people that take it serious succeed, and those that don't hang in there with hopes to one day succeed, but meanwhile do not do the work it will take to get there.
It's like praying to win the lottery, and having god answer your prayer by telling you to go buy a lottery ticket! Most IBO's just need to have consistent activity, mentorship, and apply teachings from the BSM's to have a successful profitable business.
This is very simple, but since they are their own boss, many choose not to follow that advice and so they do not succeed.
In a majority of the situations I would venture to say that it is the IBO who needs to be held responsible for the success of their own business. In the very rare case I would say it might actually have something to do with the upline or some sort of false information or something.
The retail hand-tool distribution company and repair garage businesses that you mention are both "active" income opportunities. Same with the kiosk example.
Most people that are excited about Q are excited because of the potential for an on-going income. These same people would not be excited about getting started in an opportunity for more active income.
In fact many people in my organization are already earning 6 figure incomes in their self-employed businesses, but they are tired of having to trade all their time away for that money. These same jobs that you are talking about motivate people to want to build the Q business.
Mike, thanks for being willing to put me in contact with your friends but no I am not interested in pursuing other viable active income opportunities right now. I am however always open to hearing about passive income opportunities if you know of some.
I am living well but not where I want to be financially. I will get paid today whether I work or not, and when I work, it adds to my passive income so I enjoy what I do. It also gives me opportunity to debate on sites like this and several political blogs I enjoy debating on.
All of my income is currently passive and this year I will move into the 6 figure passive income bracket. Sometimes I will take on active income projects from time to time if it is a short time period and something I really enjoy doing.
Like for instance if Q contacted me and wanted to pay me to be part of their pro-Q web initiative then I would consider it.
I have much better ideas than what they are currently doing, and I would be much more interactive with the critics to try to engage in some activities that will provide fair and balanced information for potential, existing, and ex-ibo's
QBlog has emailed me with some of his ideas, and I think he has some great ones, and I like the direction he might end up going with this blog.
Truthseeker,
I am currently in the business, and have a decent sized group where I am aware of how everyone is doing, and I talk with them all the time. I have also engaged in several conversations with other active IBO's and several big pins in the business.
After talking with all of them, I have come up with the exact opposite conclusion that you have. I am in the mix of the business on a day to day basis in some way or another, (minus vacations), and so I know what I am talking about here.
As far as your Devos comment, you should read the QBlog post that we are commenting on right now. QBlog talks about how his mindset was different back when he first started this blog than it is now. He even states why.
Are you going to assume that the BSM business has not changed one bit and that today Devos feels that same way as he did years and years ago? I have heard Doug Devos talk about the BSM business recently and he was positive about it.
So I think that your information is outdated, and the BSM business has improved greatly since then. It was never put together with intentions to get this big. You had people like Dex who would give out tools to people to help them, and through time it turned into a multi million dollar business, with tons of mistakes and tons of successes.
I think we will see great changes in the future of the tools business that many critics will even applaud. For example, using one compensation plan for all diamond los's and having an accountability plan in place. Having one source cut checks and do accounting rather than each diamond. Having one source handle all manufacturing and distribution.
I think at least every diamond in the Yager line should go with Internet Services Corp as their tool fullfillment company, and the same would go for those in BWW, and so on.
This would simplify things and help organize it better than it currently is. There are many more options that we can do to improve this, but this is just the beginning.
By the way, my upline emerald does not work in my business and my leg still grows every month without them needing to work in it.
On top of that, my business grows every month without needing me, and there is one very large leg of mine where I have developed many leaders that are able to completely run that business without the need for me to be active in it.
I will admit that in my other legs, I wouldn't feel secure walking away from them at this point even though they are growing, but this time next year should be a different story. They just need more depth and more leadership developed and they should be fine.
I am friends and business partners with both my upline and downline, so we are all in communication, and so I see the lifestyle of my upline and see the profitability of my downline and from my perspective I see success.
The success and profitablity for IBO's doing legitimate work in their own businesses in my group is 100%. So it is not all speculation, I speak from hands on knowledge and experience.
Jason, I must have missed your question below.
Yes, I did commend you on posting about this because most critics just say they don't have to come up with other solutions and that is that.
If someone was to read my comments on that post though, they would see that I feel the same way I do about most of the answers here.
Your post was similar to lawdawgs response. That instead of the business IBO's should do things like write a best selling book, or platinum cd, or win the lottery or something :)
I just don't see those as reasonable solutions for the IBO. You see, for me this is important because the IBO gets a chance to go after their dreams and goals, and then one day the jump on a negative site, and their dreams deflate and they lose their hope.
Then they are left with no option so they go back to the life that they were unhappy with in the first place. This is not good, and so when critics do this, all they do is increase the chance of failure for IBO's and set them up to not achieve their dreams.
I don't think it is the responsibility of critics to do this, but I think that ethically if you are going to convince someone to quit the current vehicle they have to achieve their dreams, then they should be presented with another viable vehicle to achieve their dreams.
Otherwise all we do is tear down people's hopes. This is why I liked your post. Because at least you made an attempt at this. But your responses were just not reasonable.
You said that if an IBO wanted to get out of their job, that they should just get another job. An IBO looks at this and it doesn't solve anything.
The IBO looks at all your solutions to get rich and does not believe that any of those are possible for them. It would have to be a solution that they actually thought was possible so that they would actually attempt to do it.
I liked the charity aspect of your comments, but most people do not get into the business for those reasons. What happens is they get in for the extra income, big money, and free time, but as they learn more about the business they see incredible value in professional developement, community and other elements.
So I like that fact you took time to write the post, but no I did not feel that it addressed the situation well. I also feel like you quoted me out of context. If someone visited your post they would see that the very first words of my comment were:
"It's good to see a post like this offering something other than negative opinions and criticisms. The funny thing is, that after reading this post, I actually got more motivated to build my own independent business!"
So yes, all suggestions are useful, but specifically your last few ideas were the better solutions I was referring to, but they were not good financial solutions, which is what this post is about.
"The IBO looks at all your solutions to get rich and does not believe that any of those are possible for them. It would have to be a solution that they actually thought was possible so that they would actually attempt to do it."
And is it's more realistic to believe that they'll get rich and free by "working the business"?????????????????
Quixmire,
In my opinion, yes. I believe that the average joe has a better chance of getting rich by building a Quixtar-Powered business, than by "writing a top 10 song, best selling novel, or inventing and patenting a wildly successful product" as Jason writes about in his post.
I do not think it is unreasonable for me to come to this conclusion. In fact, I think it is more unreasonable for me to tell the average joe that he has a better chance to get rich these other ways.
I will concede with you that if you had the chance to be mentored and trained by someone who was successful in those areas, and there was a BSM system to help the average joe to succeed in those areas, that they might be reasonable alternatives.
But I have never heard or seen of this mentorship and system available. And if it is, it definitely isn't available to the average joe the way that Quixtar is.
Chris -
I don't even know where to start with your last several posts. But the thing that probably concerns me the most is (paraphrasing) "the system is most people's best chance to succeed".
How can you come to a conclusion like that? How can you blind yourself to the fact that less than one out of hundred distributors will even go Platinum, much less Emerald or Daimond? That's someone's best chance for success?
"The System" is, on the face of it, a giant failure. Compare that to almost any other field of endeavour, and tell me honestly that you think that the average person is that hopeless.
Any way that you cut it, the vast majority of people are less likely to achieve anything of note in "The System" than they are anywhere else.
And dismissing recognition of the level of failure and lack of transparency of "The System" as a matter of "perspective" is a rationalization of the highest magnitude. This is the equivalent to Enron executives telling investors "hey, you took your chances - too bad".
You can sugar-coat this any way you want, but your "system" is one of the largest on-going failures in the history of business and to claim that it is ANYONES best hope is an insult to the every working person and business owner.
Mike, your analysis is just wrong in my opinion.
The system has helped me tremendously so I am a testimony to the value of the system. So just from that I prove you wrong. So now let's look at whether or not it increases a chance for the average joe to succeed in Quixtar.
Well, the best comparison would be to see how well IBO's are doing in groups that have no training system available. I have never yet met someone who was even able to attain the Platinum level without a training system, but one could potentially exist and I would love to hear how they are able to duplicate training to their organization.
I don't get why you attack the system so much.
I buy a $7 CD that trains me how to show the plan. Now I can give better presentations.
I buy a $12 book that teaches me how to lead a community of people. Now I am better at leading my organization.
I buy a seminar ticket for $20 that gives me a variety of training from product education, to how to retail products, to overcoming objections, to learning facts and statistics about Q, to meeting other successful IBO's in person that have attained a level that I have a goal to reach and so on. This is all very beneficial and the cost is so affordable that anyone can afford it.
Without the BSM's I would have to try everything myself and learn from my failures and mistakes.
With the BSM's, I can avoid more mistakes and more effectively lead people. Remember, without education I would likely set a new IBO up wrong, and their chance for success would be less than if I set them up right.
There is no argument you can show me that the system is not helpful to IBO's. It is. That is a fact from my experience.
So you can argue all you want that Q IBO's won't succeed with or without the system, but the truth is that the system WILL give them a better chance for success than without it. I have no reason to believe otherwise. And I doubt you can present any proof to prove otherwise.
Chris - Here is a non-system IBO:
http://daveontheroad.blogspot.com/
And what about my question? About TPIN (The pyramid is negative) one?
Btw y'all system IBOs, amway own internal memo said system is not a good idea. Heard postma memo?
And System IBOs, why not tapes are available as a free download? or say at .25 cents like songs now @ itunes? It's 21st century. Why do I have to go to the conference when I can watch the video and listen the points? What is exactly in the tapes? System is good, every thing else sucks? Now if some one says system is bad, he is negative???? I just don't get that.
OK Mo, I will answer your questions. I must have missed them the first time around.
"At any given time, it is a negative pyramid which is losing money if every body is counted."
> I am not sure I understand what point you are trying to make here. And what do you mean by counting everybody? Should I count someone who just registers in my organization but never does anything ever again?
What should the foundation for determining profitability for IBO's be based on. How many plans do they need to be showing each month and stuff like that.
With that information, I can actually make an educated judgement to how many people in my organization are making and losing money.
Is Wal-Mart a negative pyramid too? Because they have somewhere near a 50% or higher turnover rate.
Is your definition based on the turnover rate? Or based on the average or median net profit of the group? How do you determine the "TPIN" and is it really a fair analysis.
"Ppl are decieved that in 4-6 months they'll be making money. How many have gone platinum in 4-6 months?"
> Nobody is deceived? I am very upfront with people about what it takes to make money. I don't teach anyone to go Platinum in 4-6 months. I show them what size business they need to be Platinum, and what kind of work that might require.
"Is this your 'opportunity'? Is the scam of lies and deception = a business?"
> I do not know what you are talking about when you say I lie and deceive people. You are making accusations about the way I run my business and you don't even know me. I don't personally know any IBO's that are currently building their business the way you talk about.
"And why do many lies? Do you tell prospects you are prospecting them for Quixtar previously known as amway?"
> Yes I let people know the relationship between Amway and Quixtar. I feel that it adds value to the Quixtar opportunity. It helps to explain why we have very successful Diamond speakers, and a foundation of years of experience to build on. I think that it helps people register and then there are no surprises down the road.
Mo wrote: "Now if some one says system is bad, he is negative?"
No, I wouldn't say that. Some people think that Robert Kiyosaki is a great teacher, and others think he isn't. So partially it comes down to the individual and whether they think the information is valuable.
It also comes down to personality style. Some people are very detail oriented, and for others it goes right over their heads. So they system is tailored to the audience to try to cover all areas. So if a detailed guy goes to a seminar, he might think some of it was just fluff, but there would be the equal and opposite opinion from another person that thought that same fluff was the best part.
So the Diamonds understand this and try their best to offer something for everybody. Overall I think they do a great job and continue to get better at each and every event.
MP3 downloadable audios is a fairly new technology. You will definitely see the BSM's go that direction. Just as they have almost completely switched from tapes to CD's and from videos to dvds. They will soon have a large MP3 selection available. I wouldn't hold them to that standard at this time, but 2 years from now if there is not a major development in this area, I would be very surprised.
Your idea about charging for downloads is not a bad idea, but just not realistic at this point in time. I am just like you though because I am always coming up with ideas to help improve the tools and materials available.
There are many reasons for people attending seminars and events that you are leaving out with your stay at home and watch the video idea.
The seminar is the chance to meet the rest of the team, build belief, catch the vision, see the bigger picture, be around all your distance groups and upline at one time and so on. This is very hard to achieve at home.
Plus, most people would be less comitted if it weren't for the accountability that seminars has. If someone can just stay home and watch a video, how would we know if they actually did it? It would be harder to stay focused because they wouldn't get a babysitter, so the kids and other things would distract them from watching the video. You can see where I am going with this.
Getting away from the daily distractions of life for a day and attending an event is much better, and is very inexpensive, and is currently working very well to train, educate, motivate, and inspire IBO's.
Good ideas though, I just wanted to throw out some simple perspective.
My upline went Triple Diamond and has had 1 wife commit suicide,1 son commit suicide and his last wife died and he wasn't even listed as her husband in paper.The price for succes in this kind of business ain't worth it.
My upline went Triple Diamond and has had 1 wife commit suicide,1 son commit suicide and his last wife died and he wasn't even listed as her husband in paper.The price for succes in this kind of business ain't worth it.
Ray, are you claiming that the suicides happened because of the business?
Things like this are very sad, and happen in all career fields, I don't know why you hold the business accountable for this.
If someone gets in a car crash on the way to the meeting, is it the meetings fault and the businesses fault?
Or does stuff like that happen everyday across america in all different fields. If that happened in any other industry, people would not hold the company the guy worked for accountable for his family life issues.
I am sorry that happened, but I would hope that you not hold Quixtar accountable for that and just let it go.
Yeah, what the hell are you saying and what's this diamond's name Ray? Maybe it's something in the water?
QBlog wrote: "and I believe there are much better ways for the average guy to achieve his financial goals"
Like what? I would love to hear what you think about this.
Posted by: Chris | October 27, 2004 10:38 PM