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October 29, 2004
Monkey Dance
By QBlog in Web Initiative
"Mommy, why is the monkey dancing?," little Timmy inquires.
"Well, because that's all the silly monkey knows how to do sweety," mother replies.
DISCLAIMER: Technically that's a dancing chimpanzee, which is an ape, not a monkey.
Comments
LOL.
Chris:
Thanks for not "mousing over" the image and seeing the link.
Ha Ha...why'd you give it away?
Easter eggs are fun year round!!
Hi Chris!!
Could I have possibly been sarcastic?
Of course I clicked on the link.
Don't think for a second that I treat QRush with any higher regard than the rest of the critics.
My style comes from earth, his comes from Planet of the Apes :)
No, but really, his writing style is pretty cool and shows more character and originality than most bloggers. Good job QBlog, keep it up, (just enable comments)...
So, who bought QRush the thesaurus? I wonder how much PV/BV he got for buying it? hahahaha
Chris, don't you feel some of Qrush's antics are actually helping the critics in that he gives a bad impression of the IBO side? Since he is speaking on Quixtar's (supposedly unuathorized) side? I mean if Quixtar can sue and shut down sites... do you think they are happy with him when he says he knows they (Quixtar) doesn't like what he says and he says it anyway?
Unless they are actually happy with what he says cause he is no longer defending them but attacking a "threat"? how passport is a threat to Quixtar business I'll never know... unless it is an information threat and not a sales threat.
Interested in your take on this.
Watch the monkey dance!!!
Chris's comments under "Quixtar The New BLOG Shop"
"I have been involved at least as long as the launch of Quixtar. I have many people in my downline and that number changes weekly. My last check was very nice and I have stated in the past that I am currently earning a 5 figure income from my business. That could be $99,999 or $10,000. I will leave the wondering up to you."
From Monday Reader Mail 18:
"Truthseeker,
Let's clear up a couple of things. I do make a 5 figure residual income but I have never stated what portion of that comes from Quixtar."
In Canada we call people like Chris a stickhandler, all puck motion, no goals on the scoreboard.
But monkey will also do.
I’ve been reading Quixtar Qrush and much of what he says makes sense. Who cares about his writing style? If that is as much as the critics can come up with to pick on Qrush, the content must be accurate (no one disputes his facts). I have noticed that he continues to ask questions that no one is willing to answer. I’ll bet if his questions got legitimately answered by Passport and others it would silence him. The fact that these questions don’t get answered is like a warning bell going off.
And I don’t blame Qrush for keeping his comments turned off. I would bet anything that a number of immature individuals with an ax to grind would post a bunch of crap. Who needs that hassle? And why does he need comments or feedback anyway? Looks to me like he is doing just fine on his own.
Okay "Qrush" makes sense,
as a first time poster to this blog... who are you? nevermind, we know who you are.
Qrush's "facts" are disputed all the time. The fact that he won't allow disputes on his space or acknowledge the disputed info on other sites is truth in of itself.
His claims of "defending quixtar' for their own good are a crock, and his 'style" was only commented on by Chris...which was favorable. I addressed his legitimacy as a "voice for Quixtar", unauthorized or authorized?
And lastly in your comment:
---quote
And I don’t blame Qrush for keeping his comments turned off. I would bet anything that a number of immature individuals with an ax to grind would post a bunch of crap. Who needs that hassle? And why does he need comments or feedback anyway? Looks to me like he is doing just fine on his own.
---end quote
Guess it would be hard for you to say that had Qblog turned off comments. Goose/gander thing.
Qrush is not a blog, it is a static propoganda site, The only people I've seen making ad hominem personal attacks and leaving "crap" on boards are the people defending Quixtar and not the other way around. Making up a name that suits the topic and trying to generate "differing" opinions that you don't want traced back to your "regular" alias, does not help your cause at hand.
Qrush has been answered numerous times. If Qrush would provide evidence to back up what he says, it might be worth commenting on.
Qrush says: "Bo Short has run Passport for three years and has yet to achieve anyone making even $500/month."
Well, I know for a fact that is not a true statement. What do you want me to do about it?
On behalf of monkey community, I take a serious offense of that. We are what we are, we don't hide, we don't lie and there ain't no body paying us to do what we do.
We got one mama and one papa, unlike qrush who got 5 papas and 1 mama alticor
Rocket,
A.K.A. Mr. Persistent. (sometimes a good quality:)
So you want to dig in the archives some more and bring up content on old posts huh? Well bring it. Here is something for you:
--
Posted in "Challenge for Quixtar Advocates"
"ABO and Chris, would either one of you be willing to provide me access to your pricing systems?"
Posted by: Rocket at September 29, 2004 04:59 PM
--
My Reply:
"Rocket, if you want to do price comparisons at retail, just visit the Quixtar site. You can view retail product costs without even registering.
I am not here to recruit and it would go against what I stand for to use this board as a means to recruit new clients, members or IBO's, so I would recommend that you just call Quixtar if you are interested and they will register you with a Platinum in your area.
As far your actual question as to price comparisons and what products are good, there is a good discussion about this on one of QBlog’s other posts at this link here:
http://tech-geeks.org/tiny.php?url=1259"
> And then I went into elaborate detail of price comparisons using partner stores as the example.
Posted by: chris at September 29, 2004 07:33 PM
--
Within 2 1/2 hours you had a response from me to help you out. You said you had a problem logging onto the site, and then I helped you some more. I have offered help ever since. But yet you have attacked me on not helping you enough about a dozen times on these boards. Even interrupting other discussions to bring it up.
So now you are bring up more stuff. So let's look at what you quoted.
The first part of my answer was obvious sarcasm. I was unwilling to respond to you, and I told you that, and you persisted, so I threw out some sarcasm. It is all true, but doesn't actually answer anything. I didn't want to but you wouldn't leave me alone. I told you that when I started my blog I would and if I did earlier, then I would email QBlog.
As far as the 5 figure quote, there is no monkey business there. I run a business and a portion of the income for that business comes from Quixtar. What part of that do you not understand. I think you are confused when I say "my business" you must assume I only earn income from Quixtar.
I have actually pointed out that my business pulls in revenue from other sources besides just Quixtar. I think you can read about that on "Quixtar Doesn't Advertise" or one of those posts.
So yes I make a 5 figure residual income from my business, and this year I plan to take it into the 6 figures. I expect a large portion of that to be Quixtar income.
MONKEY SHOW PLAN?
I'm hurt by this thread.
I’m not Qrush but I’m a crush fan. He tells it like it is with Passport, and that’s why Passport Associates hate him and try to discredit him. Show me a single post on the internet in which someone commented pro-Qrush in which someone else didn’t follow eventually with another post afterwards saying “that was just Qrush posting under another identity.” You can’t. By this stupid logic, Qrush must be posting every few minutes on the internet all day long. Face the facts, Qrush is popular and he is loved. Everyone knows he is not afraid to ask questions and demand answers.
Ty, if you know of anyone in Passport consistently making $500 net profit per month name him/her. Brag about it. Why withhold it? And provide the same proof you ask for when you tell others to prove income (copies of checks, tax returns, etc.). You need to be held to the same standards as you want others to be held to. That’s only fair, right Ty?
I have some exciting news. Bo Short has been calling one of his anti-Quixtar sites a blog and he DOES NOT HAVE COMMENTS TURNED ON. Now I want to see everyone launch an anti-Bo Short and anti-Passport campaign because according to you guys, this is the ultimate sin when it comes to blogging.
What is Bo Short thinking? Calling his site a blog and no comments? Call the blog police and let’s get Bo Short behind bars.
Oh wait, all the blog police must be in bed with Bo Short and Passport or they would have already called out Bo Short for this terrible infraction. Qblog – why isn’t Bo Short allowing comments? You should hang him out to dry.
Qrush is popular and Qrush is loved? besides the supposed email from the webmaster for a Diamond, and a couple anonymous copycat blogs. Where is he popular? Who loves him? Where is there one actual named individual in Quixtar who is showing or has shown support of Qrush? Qrush has repeatedly said Quixtar probably doesn't like what he is doing....yet no one from Quixtar has shut him down...because he is IBOAI controlled???
Qrush could very well be posting all over the place since he alters times on his posts at his blog... and that is what he is supposed to be doing.
Again, how is Passport a threat to Quixtar other than by providing information? They are not a sales threat by any means. And they are certainly not any more of a recruitment threat than any other MLM....even the more established ones.
Qrush continues to play up the fact that Bo Short "faked it til he made it" and faked it some more.... I hardly believe he was/is the only one. The idea that te very powers that be in the IBOAI did not get there themselves is absurd. Like Bill Britt "retiring" from a business that supposedly you "retire" into.
Ralph,
Been there, done that. You're a day late and a dollar short.
Now pay attention and you won't be embarrassed again.
Chris
Uh-huh. Hey everyone, I've just started a cookie cutter business. I've sold between 1 and 1 quadrillion cookie cutters since 7 AM, I'll let you wonder how many.
That, along with my J-O-B, makes me 5 figures a year. That could be between 000.01 and 999.99, I'll leave the wondering to you.
Chris, you make me laugh. You've sent me a link to check out, which didn't work. NOTHING MORE. You try to make it sound as though you drove to Canada, tracked me down, sat down in my living room, and did price comparisons with me, then took me out to dinner and a movie, shook my hand, kissed my baby and paddled your canoe off into the sunset.
My point was, your vagueness does nothing to strengthen your position. At all. In fact, it makes you sound like
A) A wannabee
B) A wish you could
C) A might be there, but are scared of being found out by your upline, who would slice out your tool money faster than you can say, "Do you believe?"
Your stories were conflicting, that's all. Oh yeah, to point out the obvious makes me negative.
Hi Ralph,
Nice to see a new name posting so emphatically. Too bad you just joined in, you'd have seen in the past where I and others have criticized Bo for not allowing comments, but he has a forum for comments the last time I checked, has it changed?...I don't follow his site. It's just most of the people like you, the Qrush fan, and other fly in and disapeer posters don't like forums cause they are less anonymous. I'm sure if Qblog bothered to check posts...and publish the results, many of you are the same person.
Personally, I have stated I could care less if pasport thrives or fails. My wife wasn't pulled into it. If Bo is trying to make something better than what he found in Quixtar, fine and I wish him the best... if he's making his own version from what he learned from Quixtar and plans to exploit them....then I wish the same evil thoughts as I do for Quixtar's various LOS.
Qrush could open comments or open a forum...either way it's one sided as it is, and that's the way he likes it.. Like a static advertisement website...where his is the only word.
Nice to see you though, hope you can hang around without having to split personalities.
Roger said: "how is Passport a threat to Quixtar other than by providing information?"
I am not the expert on Passport, but it looks as though they are feeding off of the anti-quixtar opportunity to prospect for their company.
This is not much different than many other MLM's who consistently dis Amway and Quixtar in their meetings and say that their company is better, but Passport has a more organized anti-Quixtar campaign.
I don't have a problem with it, but it seems as though a big portion of the critics don't talk the same trash about Passport even though it is a network marketing company. In fact, it almost seems like they support it.
But then again, that doesn't bother me, and maybe Passport is everything the critics want in an MLM. Good for them.
That is my view of Passport. I don't know much more than that as of now. My personal opinion is that since we are in the same industry we should be positive about eachother and benefit the industry rather than try to talk about how bad company X is and how good company Y is.
This goes on with every company and I don't really think it is very positive. But I don't really care that much.
--
Rocket, as far as you and I, our conversation doesn't seem to resolve anything, so it almost seems pointless to continue to debate. I think that if a reader reads your comments, and mine, then they could form their own opinions.
The figures I quoted for you were obviously sarcastic and general because I didn't want to release my figures to you and I still don't.
Why would it make a difference whether I made $10k per year or $100k per year with my business?
I truly don't understand what difference it would make to you. The only reason I even said anything at all, was to give you at least a rough idea who you were dealing with.
No specifics, but you know that I am not a $100k/yr+ earner. That is very general, but I thought that was better than no answer at all, and that was about as much as I was willing to give.
Honestly Rocket, it wouldn't matter what figure I gave you, it would never be enough and you will always ask for more and just dis whatever I show you. So sorry, but you get no cookie :)
I don't know Chris, I don't deal with other MLMs, and wouldn't be dealing with Quixtar after leaving Amway had TOD not sunk their claws into my wife. I left Amway, thoguth they sucked and left it at that. I did not become an "anti" until then, though I had no love for Amwasy (or Quixtar when it formed), but had no reason to speak out.
I do have a friend who's only real income is from selling Avon, she gets enough income to help out, but she is not all about "building a leg", she has nothing but retail customers. Doesn't spend a fortune on "motivational tools", just sells product. She was involved in Quixtar because of her sister getting involved. I don;t know if her sister is still in thoigh I know her and my wife have had Quixar discussions taht I walk away from. My friend is what would be considered "no fan of Quixtar", but doesn't bother with them.
Quixtar hasn't seemed to launch any conerted effort against any other MLM that you say "dis" them.
I am not a "critic of MLM", I am a critic of the "Quixtar opportunity as presented by the various LOS'". I make no attempt ot hide behind generic "MLM" when I mean to say Quixtar.
Otherwise my I may be asking "What about MLM?" or "What about Passport?".
So actually, you and I agree on at least some things. The critics of passport can compalin at the various "MLM critical sites"...Quixtar is talked aboout here. I, unlike Qrush, know or care nothing about passport.
Roger,
Qrush knows very little about Passport either except that which he is instructed to write. Oh, he does know how to spell Passport. I believe he copied it from my website.
Hmm..
The "Gene" and "Ralph" quotes are back to back, 14 minutes apart, and they all have the same tone as if they came from the same person.
Honestly, why are you even wasting your time?
Your obviously trying to flood the blog with pro comments as different people. So that when new or random visitors come across them, they might confuse it with a legit comment.
Of course this won't fool the regulars, nice try though.
First it's Chris, then it's Qrush or a Qrush wannabe. What's next?
Keep this in mind though you guys: You can try to defend it all you want. But as people become more and more internet savy it becomes easier and easier to see through your BS.
Bingo NO DIAMOND! this blog get much more traffic than all the fake pro blogs. Why set up ur own blog then? Fabricate a perfect IBO who has never seen any thing bad in Quixtar indirectly calling critics a liar.
Btw Chris, if you are still there, Quixtar is perfect? Nothing in this world is perfect, and there IS NO security in any thing. Any thing could happen any time. How come Quixtar is perfect and there could not be any faulth with it? This alone raise suspicion.
It looks like to me that Qrush doesn't need to turn on his comments. All he has to do is come over here to this blog and read how he's doing. Sneaky sneaky.
I had no idea that Chris was that hairy! Although I do like his dance moves!
Rocket, thanks for joining the cause in calling Chris out...dude has to wake up!
Reminds me a tape of Shivaram Kumar, Dancing Monkey and the dark circles.
Dancing monkey = the negativity in ur mind.
Dark circles = ppl in ur team who are in tapes, seminars, night owls etc.
Mo wrote: "Btw Chris, if you are still there, Quixtar is perfect? Nothing in this world is perfect, and there IS NO security in any thing. Any thing could happen any time. How come Quixtar is perfect and there could not be any faulth with it? This alone raise suspicion."
When did I ever say this or make this claim? It looks like the best you can do is attack me by putting words in my mouth and trying to make me look less credible. I have posted several flaws regarding Quixtar on this blog and others. Pay attention.
Just because I am pro-quixtar does not mean I think it is a perfect company. I don't think QBlog is a perfect blogger, but so far all I have said is positive things about his blogging skills. He still falls short of perfect though :)
I agree that it would be lame if IBO's were posting multiple comments under different names in a spam like fashion. QBlog can probably let us know if this is the case because he logs the IP addresses from all of us, so he can see if it came from the same IP address.
This is not totally conclusive, because there are ways to get around this, but most people wouldn't know about this.
Why are all of you critics so quick to say something about these pro-qrush-quixtar supporters, but when one of your own spams this board, nobody speaks up?
In the past weeks, a reader named "badboybadboy" posted on several posts with a copy/paste and I was the only one to speak up. I have copied and pasted something on here before, and it was too long, so QBlog took it off, but I hijack multiple posts with copy/paste comments.
I think it is great that there is dialogue between those for and those against Quixtar and the various lines of sponsorship.
But then again, maybe I am wrong and this should just be the official anti-quixtar hangout where the critics can all eat chips, drink beer, and talk trash about people like me who have their own business and are excited about what they do, and are focused on achieving their goals and dreams and helping other people along the way.
Oooooh Bad Chris, Shame On You.
I must have missed those comments where you said there are some flaws in Quixtar. I'll look for them. There are lot of ur comments u know ;);) What are those flaws btw?
Regarding the credibility issue, I believe the ppl who provide the proof of their claims, backup the the statements which they are making and not afraid to confront. If some one is posting comment without some convinving facts, I'm not going to beleive him. Show, don't tell, is now my motto.
Mo, what comment are you talking about that wasn't backed up?
I have many comments on this blog, so I agree that you might have missed times when I was critical of issues of the business.
I recently wrote about some of these issues over at Jason's blog, http://sinkinginquixand.blogspot.com
Here is a portion of how I resonded to a post of his on this issue.
"So to answer your question, yes, there are many things that could happen that would cause me to re-evalute whether to continue or not.
If Quixtar took a stand against a certain race, sexual orientation, or religion, that would make me reconsider the opportunity. I don't mean speakers, they can speak their mind, but I mean not letting people physically register if they were a certain way.
Or if I felt a spiritual calling to something else, like for instance international missionary work, and I felt that the business would get in the way, then I would leave it and follow God's plan for me. Or at least I hope my faith would be strong enough to do that:)
I would reconsider Quixtar if my upline diamond presented a very good case to me as to why he wanted to leave and bring the organization into another project. I trust my upline Diamond and so I would likely follow his leadership if this situation ever did arise, which is very unlikely and there is no evidence of something like this happening.
So anyways, the list could go on and on. No opportunity is perfect and it is easy to find flaws and potential flaws. I am aware of many flaws that exist that some people would quit over, and yet I am still an IBO with a positive attitude for the business."
Those are just a few examples of things that would make me reconsider this opportunity, or potential "flaws" if you may.
Of course we could all sit around in a pow-wow and list out the flaws of any topic that exists. But why not sit around a talk about the "benefits".
I have learned to channel my focus on more positive things in my life. Like when I am at the gym, I used to focus on what I wasn't able to do, and how I did things wrong, thinking that if I focused on it, that I could fix it and get better. But now I focus on my strengths, and what I do well, and by focusing on a more positive outlook, it has truly helped me out in almost every area of my life.
Ok Chris the backing up comments issue:
You say u r successful in Quixtar, but won't provide proof. I told you how much I made in my part time business didn’t I? That $40 / hour thing. Maybe not much, but it was my Q dream, to make a little extra. You told me many ppl could just do that by getting a new job. Only if that was too easy. Heard about job in Quixtar meeting? :) BUT, thanks for the advice.
Re: Quixtar: Give me a reason to believe you? I don't know you, I don't know if you are making money in Quixtar. I don't even know if you are an IBO.
You seem very nice. BUT, my sponsor was very nice. I didn't ask for proof that how much money he is making. Turns out he is losing money month after month. After 2 years, he can't even claim the expenses in tax returns. IRS will bust him if he does. Had I being blunt and asked him the proof, income statement from the beginning, I might have saved 10,000 dollars I lost in this scam. I know you are not sponsoring me but my point is I’m not going to believe any one who doesn’t provide proof.
You see my point? Try to put yourself in my position. Also, I don't follow Jason’s blog. I have linked it though. Hey I'm a broke loser, don't have a lot of time :-)
Why I trust, ok trust AmQuix.info or Lawblawg or qblog more than you? They have provided proof of every statement. Haven't they? e.g. this post is in Q. Rules.
Couldn't agree you more on +ve, -ve things. I personally use some of Q products. I've said before, I'll say again, they are GREAT products. Best out there. Says a guy who writes Quixtar sucks blog. :-) BUT, I experienced extremely negative behavior in Quixtar about Jobs, Business and every other non - Quixtar activity. I got a part time job in my last months of Quixtar to get some more money as I have lost a lot in abusive gala org scam. My upline Ahmer Azam was not happy about this as I have to miss open. I have talked to other ppl and they have said similar things. Because of upline advice relationships have been broken. Even marriages.
By the way, crimes of persuasion ARE a crime.
So, yes, we ALL should focus on +ve things, e.g. jobs are not bad. Ppl live comfortable lives doing jobs. Businesses and other non-Quixtar activities are not bad. Missing a seminar is not a crime. Missing one open for some family function is not a sin either. Lets be positive.
If I put myself in your shoes, you have a good experience in Quixtar. Ok good. You are making profit AFTER expenses, good. You haven’t provided any proof but for the sake of the argument lets say you did. If your whole downline is making money AFTER expenses, perfect. We don’t have a problem. IF you are making money BECAUSE your downline is losing money (Q-Cheque - Expense), I won't say it is good. I'll call it a pyramid.
You know better than me what it is in your org.
Mo wrote: "You say u r successful in Quixtar, but won't provide proof. I told you how much I made in my part time business didn’t I?"
Saying how much you made isn't proof, so we are both in the same shoes here. Neither one of us has provided proof. The difference is that I don't require proof of you to be willing to have an intellectual conversation about Quixtar, but you require proof of me.
I didn't make claims about my income and my success, if you follow the comments on this blog, what happened is the critics started asking me how much I made, and when I wouldn't answer they gave me a hard time.
So after a while, I decided I would give them an idea for how I was doing so that they could know I was not some diamond, but just the average IBO, who in my opinion, is having success with their business.
You have not provided any proof for your situation so isn't that hypocritical to demand income verification from me? Why can't you just accept me as an IBO voice, and debate with me over issues? What difference does it really make whether I am 4000pv, 10,000pv, or 50,000pv?
As far as the rest of your comments about your experience with Quixtar, I am sorry that you had that experience, but I can assure you that my experience is not like that at all.
This happens alot in many different areas of life. Let's use christianity as the example. We could start up a blog and get hundreds of people sharing stories about their negative church experience. They could all agree that their churches were shady and the pastor did things behind the scene that were unethical. These might be true or not, but either way, many people have had this experience.
But I could start a blog, and get hundreds of people talking about how great their church is and how it is much different than the churches the other blog is talking about. So who would be right?
You see, there is room for opinions, and I can respect that. But you have to understand that many of the things you talk about, are not things that I experience.
Like you say you experienced trash talking about J.O.B.'s. Well in my organization we talk highly about jobs. Especially because many people love what they do, so if you trash jobs, then those people won't want to build the business.
Just like when a speaker at a hotel meeting shows the business plan, it can't just be money, money, money, because there might be many people in the audience who's dream is not money, but many other things.
So we believe in trying our best to relate to all. And if we get the chance, to ask questions to learn about what the person wants, and then to see if the business plan is a good match. Sometimes it is not.
You say you trust sites like QBlog and Amquix. Well I have emailed Amquix in the past and got no response. I tried to correct some things on his site that were false and at least offer my opinion, but no response.
So the problem with a static website like his is that he can say whatever he wants even if it is not true, and there is no accountability. So if an IBO comes across something false, there is nothing they can do about it, and the readers can be mislead.
I have more respect for QBlog's site because he offers a forum and comments on each post. This allows IBO's to offer commentary and opinion on each topic QBlog addresses. On top of that, QBlog is willing to make updates when he makes mistakes or gets new information from an IBO.
So here it is. I don't care if you believe me or not. Do we still debate the issues, or do you never listen to me because I don't show you my income? Which is it?
You said: "I know you are not sponsoring me but my point is I’m not going to believe any one who doesn’t provide proof."
So using your philosophy, I shouldn't believe you. In fact, I shouldn't believe any single critic on here. I have not seen proof of income from anybody. And even then, proof of income can be easily manipulated and false. So without accountability information on the proof of income, like name, etc. There is really no way of knowing is there?
You are a complete stranger to me. You could make income claims and back them up with false documentation. Very easily. So should I believe you then?
Look, you don't need to prove your credibility to me. We can discuss issues and offer eachother's perpective and that is fine for me. That is really what we are doing here right? Debating over issues regarding Quixtar and how we see them. Nothing more. No soliciting. Totally anonymous. No worries.
Then.......
The critics can't have that and so here come the demands to see income otherwise no one should listen to this positive IBO guy. But no proof from the critics because we arent making claims. But wait, either was the IBO. Until the critics were pushy enough to squeak something out of him just to use it against him. What a fun game we are playing.
You say that some people are living comfortably and missing meetings is not a crime. Of course! I would never argue that.
This business opportunity is for those who are not living comfortably, and want something more that they cannot get doing what they are currently doing. So they need to do something new, and this business might be the right match for them.
Most people in the US are not living comfortably, and are in no position to retire comfortably. Social Security is a real scam, that you critics should expose and educate the public on because the government is running the biggest scam of all. Your crusade would be much more beneficial to the general public.
The last comment you make is a much bigger conversation than we can have here.
Critics are always claiming that even if you become successful, that your team would have to be losing money. So it is a negative pyramid.
I don't buy that logic, and I have read much about it on the internet.
Let's I have 1 person in my group who just started 1 month ago. Let's say I am making money after expenses and he is losing money. Then technically I am making money off of a team that is losing money, therefore, negative pyramid.
But he just got started, and shouldn't be expected to be profitable yet. But I never hear the critics add things like this into their equations.
So there needs to be guidelines, like how long does someone get before they should be profitable?
What amount of work should be considered minimum to be included in profitability stats?
Once we get some realistic guidelines, then we can actually for some figures to go by. And if the source for creating those stats was neither for nor against the opportunity, then we might actually be able to get true stats without spin.
Otherwise we hear claims from critics like the average IBO only makes $3/hour after expenses. Or whatever. But the way they get this stat is ridiculous. The assumption is that all of the "average" IBO's have expenses for their business. But the truth is that most of the people that quit, never actually do anything and shouldn't have registered in the first place.
So here is a negative comment I have about Quixtar. It is too easy for people to get in and do nothing, then we get stats that include them, and it makes it look like people arent succeeding and it devalues the opportunity. Sometimes I wish we could have more strict guidelines for Quixtar, but in the same breath I can say that I like the freedom of being able to decide my own workload.
Sorry for the long response, but I am going out of town soon, and just wanted to put out some of my thoughts.
Chris: you asked me to point where did you not provide the proof of your claims? When I said many critics site have provided the proof.
I said income claim, and I tried to give you mine. Than you wrote a loooong post regarding the history of critics asking you proof and won't beleive mine either no matter what I do. I see your point. It could be a lie. Then you wish to debate based on opinions.
FINE: Lets do that. But don't ask me to point your comments where you did not provided the proof.
Regarding not putting job opinion: I hear "Flush the dtinking job" Dateline aired it, I did it and witnessed it. I saw 30, 000 ppl dpoing that. You org must be very unique, Which is it? I wanna sign up :o)
Regarding the $3 / hour issue. When did I EVER say to count ppl who sign up and don't do any thing? Don't count them. Count ppl who put up volume and show the plan, drive the miles and do the standing ovation to scammers, or in your perception, leaders.
Quixtar is, a negative pyramid if it's only self consumption. Do your group do 70% retail? Group I was so did not. Sales were scorned. Do you agree that a group that do not obey 70% retail rule is a negative pyramid? You have read lawblawg right?
IBO's need to follow the 70% rule to receive bonus checks on downline volume.
If they do not do that rule, then they should not get paid. So there is a fair system in place.
If they don't do it, it is their choice. Unless their upline tells them not to do it.
I do not think it is the Diamonds responsibility to do this, but it is the Platinums and the sponsors.
So no, I do not buy into the negative pyramid concept. I think lawblawg is a very educated person, but also very opinionated and biased against Quixtar, so he will take anything he can and spin it against Quixtar to try to prove flaws. This can be done with almost any business, company, organization and so forth.
People in our organization are taught the 70% rule, and we don't have the mantra "flush that stinkin job". When I saw that on Dateline it was the first I have ever heard of it. I have also never seen candles used like that before.
Not that I am against it though. I personally wouldn't mind if we all said that at a function, or all lit candles. In an arena full of people this can make a powerful statement.
From what I have heard, the majority of people get started as IBO's because they want to get out of their jobs and work for themselves and develop a residual income.
So why would it be bad for them to promote that from stage? This is what the majority want.
If the vast majority of people loved their jobs and wanted to keep them, then the speakers should consider a different pitch.
Does that make sense?
You said lawdawg is biased and negative towards Q and spin any thing to make it bad.
Aren't YOU biased and -ve toward critics and spin any thing they say ;) well not regarding their web skills which even Qrush admires ;)
Ok so negative pyramid, 2 issues:
Pyramid is negative because many ppl sign up, do nothing or don't do enough or don't do sales,
Or pyramid is not negative at all?
I read 70% rules in a critic site 3 months after I quit. I always get bonus whether we did sales or not. My sponsor told me to report 50 PV as retail like he did and so I did. My upline sent kate messages to every one telling them they need to transfer 50 PV to get downline bonus. He did NOT say do sales. He said just REPORT 50 PV.
Mo, what your upline told you is wrong. I am sorry that you were mislead by your upline. Without having your upline defend themselves, all we have to go on is your word, and I believe you, but I would love to hear their side of the story. But for now I will just assume what you said is accurate.
As far as the negative pyramid, I am not sure where you are trying to go with this. So is the gym a negative pyramid because most people that sign up don't actually do anything and just end up losing money?
I mean, there are a great deal of people who sign up for 2 year gym contracts at $40 per month but only go a few times. My friend works at a gym, and he said that the salesman are taught to sign up way more people than the gym can handle because most of them will only come a few times after registering.
So is the salesman unethical? Is the member being mislead? Or is it the member who chooses to register and can choose to do something or do nothing?
Most of these members take a $1000 loss by signing up with the gym, and that does not even include interest on the loan or the CC they used!
So is the gym a negative pyramid? If an IBO registers and does nothing, they are only out $40. The only income statistics we have include IBO's like this who might have just attended a meeting and quit.
So it is OBVIOUS that the average income for IBO's who invest in the system is much, much higher, and if they also show 15plans per month with upline mentorship it is much higher than that.
Meaning that it is VERY possible that the average person who does something actually MAKES money, not the other way around.
Yes I am biased, but I agree with much on lawblawgs site, and I find that I am much more fair than the average critic. But again, that is just my opinion.
I've asked my sponsor many times to read these sites, he won't. Unfortunately I don't have saved the kate message. But it was very clear, report 50 PV to get downline bonus. It didn’t mention to do any retail.
Gym is a very good example. No salesman is not unethical at all, ppl don't come because of their own laziness. If they come to gym, they'll see the result. If they don't the wont.
So a IBO who sign up did nothing gain nothing and loss nothing except $40. In fist 3 month they even get a refund. Fine! What about the IBOs who are showing 15 plans a month? There are many who did it for years and didn't see results and lost. It's just not possible in North America to have so many diamonds is it? There will be few but that's it! Saturation comes into play big time.
Ppl who goes to Gym are on average healthy. Ppl who sign up on Gym and don't go should cancel their membership or freeze it.
But what about IBOs who are losing money month after month and their upline are advising them to keep doing it? Unlike Gym, only 1% see the results. And how they see the results, repeating same cycle over and over again, i.e. to cause their downline to lose money.
In Gym a member does not get healthy by other members losing their health. Does he?
Chris Wrote> Mo, what your upline told you is wrong. I am sorry that you were mislead by your upline. Without having your upline defend themselves, all we have to go on is your word, and I believe you, but I would love to hear their side of the story. But for now I will just assume what you said is accurate.
> So Chris, I don't have your downline here as well, down to the new 100 PV folks. I would love to hear their comments as well. I'm also going by assumption that they are obeying 70% RETAIL rule as you said and are not losing money. Even at 100 or 300 PV.
Also, I think many critics are much more fair than you as they are not scared to name their LOS and upline Diamond. But that's just my opinion.
Mo, I am not scared to name my upline LOS. I choose not to. Think of how silly of a comparison this is.
If I name my upline LOS, then many critics on here start spinning information about them to sound negative and start ruining the reputation of my business support team, then I will have to spend so much time defending them. If I saw the critics write positive things about some organizations, then it would be a different story.
A critic has no reason to hold back that info because they don't care if their upline gets trashed, in fact, they probably would encourage it. So fundamentally this is not a good comparison.
I appreciate your debating though, and I think that you add value to the party of anti-quixtar critics. I have been reading your blog lately and you do a good job. Keep up the good work :)
Dude, you're paranoid. Why's that?
Oh, everyone is out to get you. I forgot.
Thanks for taking the time to put a visual of the critics on this blog.
Or this might be you admitting that you are a monkeys uncle because you saw that Quixtar did have that statement in the virtual office.
:)
Posted by: Chris | October 29, 2004 10:54 AM