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September 21, 2004
Orrin Woodward Web Bloopers II
By QBlog in TEAM
I've been passively following the strange events at Orrin Woodward's personal Web site since at least January of this year. It's been quite interesting to observe. Wish I had some popcorn to munch while I watch his schizophrenic site split personalities like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
To Hide or Not To Hide?
The central focus of the Orrin Woodward Web site drama is a series of articles authored by Woodward and published on his site for the world to read. After publishing the articles late last year, Woodward's site began a strange and bizarre Shakespearean-styled drama I refer to as, "To Hide or Not To Hide?"
The History
To quickly explain the details of this "drama" I'll lay out a brief timeline for you to follow:
Late 2003 - Orrin Woodward publishes some articles on his Web site, orrinwoodward.com.
January 19, 2004 - Orrin Woodward hides the articles from the public, putting them behind a password script. However, they had already been cached by Google.
February 7, 2004 - Woodward's articles were still behind a password script but his images were not. Four of those images were graphics demonstrating how the Team of Destiny tool money functioned. After my post on the matter, the images were moved.
March 18, 2004 - Woodward's Web site is nicely redesigned. However, articles are still hidden.
July 26, 2004 - Woodward begins blogging. Curiously his blog content, unlike his personal Web site, is open to the public.
August 10, 2004 - The Orrin Woodward articles were made public once again, nearly eight months later. There was much rejoicing.
August 21, 2004 - The Orrin Woodward articles were once again squirreled away into password protection. The rejoicing ends.
I've heard rumors that there's a certain casino in Vegas that is taking bets on whether or not the Orrin Woodward articles will be made public again. The oddsmakers have given 20-1 odds. I can't confirm this rumor but I may have to fit a trip to Vegas into my holiday schedule ;o)
Where Can I Find the Articles?
I know some of you hate mysteries and are now dying to know what's so special about the Orrin Woodward articles and I always aim to please. If you haven't yet read them, you're in luck. Archive.org has a copy of them on its Web site. Here are the articles, begin your rejoicing.
Orrin Woodward Web Bloopers was filmed before a live audience.
Comments
Evan, would you like to speculate as to why Orrin has been so indecisive about making his articles public? If, as you say, he "does a remarkable job at outlining the complementary business model" then why hide it, then not hide it, then hide it, then not hide it, then hide it?
This is just speculation, but maybe Quixtar Corporate does not want IBO teams to feature non-password protected articles that talk about related businesses that an IBO may profit from.
I am not the expert in this area, but I do know that Quixtar has guidelines for IBO's that have websites, which is why I am getting corporate approval before launching my own blog. I want to be aligned with the Quixtar Rules of Conduct, and that is more of a process when you have dynamic content available to the public.
It is my belief that Quixtar does not want IBO's to show multiple opportunities to an individual at once. Since I do not have a written reference for this, it is tough to explain, and I would need to speak with Quixtar Corporate to get the exact rule.
Meaning, if you show the IBO Marketing Plan, then you cannot also show other opportunities to the IBO like tool profits, speaking opportunities, etc. at the same time. I think the reason is because they are separate opportunities and may create confusion for the potential IBO.
So it would make more sense to introduce additional business opportunities to the IBO at a later date, either when they are registered, or maybe when they request information about a potential business opportunity.
I know this is rough and not fully explained, so please forgive me, but I have heard something like this from Quixtar Legal when they were talking about guidelines that IBO's should follow.
This would explain why the Team of Destiny website is fully password protected, besides a news section that is very general. That would also explain why the content that was previously available is still available, but not until a potential IBO has been presented the opportunity.
And then threes always the concept that it is his website and he can take down or put up whatever articles he feels like, whenever he feels like it. :) What do you think about my analysis Eric?
Your analysis is fine but aren't the articles public anyway?
Qblog,
I never said the guy was decisive. I can't even begin to speculate as to why he would do this. It seems very odd that he would flip flop.
The one thing is very clear....He is a very articulate man who has influenced many people. I just hope everyone involved with him can ask the same question you are asking, along with many others pertaining to their futures.
Qblog, you have a very interesting little picture to the right of the text box, occasionally. The word "think" scrawled on a piece of paper is excellent. People need to start thinking independently and asking more questions.
I have had experience with the team of destiny, and I must say it was an extremely positive one. Nobody badgered me to buy tools. It was MY OWN DECISION. People were willing to help me succeed, and that's more than I can say for corperate America. In corperate America people try to mislead you and redirect you, because if you achieve success they may be out of a job. Althouth I have had little financial success with the team of destiny, a price couldn't be put on the spiritual and emotional gratification, and the belief in myself that the Team of Destiny system has given me!
People wake up!!! Did you know that crap like this is posted up by peole with no lives. These people like to talk their smack to watch others come up to them and say "oooh yeah, tell me more" don't listen to these idiots. Open up your minds and see that business is business. Thats right they make money off of tools. But hey who said you weren't. Thats right it's these idiots that talk crap but don't tell you the truth.
It's an old scam from the Aimway days but this is the internet attempt. It failed for 90% and will produce the same results. 90% of you will make no money. but I know one person that will make money, Orrin Woodward.
he speaks about how he thought he was a nobody and yet he holds a Bachelor of Science Degree in Manufacturing Engineering from GMI and Business Administration training from the University of Michigan. He holds four United States Patents and an exclusive National Benchmarking Award for product analysis and has been recognized in national trade journals. Co-founder of the Team and acting Chair of the Policy Council, Mr. Woodward is also one of the most in-demand speakers in the industry. His highly popular Observations from Orrin appears monthly on www.The-Team.biz.
Orrin Woodward is also co-author of two new business and Leadership books titled Leading the Consumer Rebellion and Launching a Leadership Revolution.
So if you think your gonna make money like Orrin, your wrong. hes not the nobody he sell himself as. He has just found a way to get you to give him your money.
"Wake-up people"
Hey Spooky. Good job at copying and pasting Orrin's bio into your post as an "argument" against the TEAM. Orrin is a very intelligent person, but that doesn't make him any "better" than you or me. He's one of the most humble people I've met. TEAM is not Amway (the business model is completely different), and it's certainly not a scam. I've only been in the business a short time, and I'm already making money. Since I joined the TEAM, I've met (and currently work with) several people who make enough money to be comepletely job-optional. As far as the tools go, nobody is "pressured" into purchasing ANYTHING. The tools are highly recommended, yes, but nobody is forced to buy them. Does somebody make money from the CDs and books? Yes, of course. Oh, but shhhh...don't tell anyone; so does Amazon.com! The only way someone can join TEAM and fail, is if they CHOOSE to fail.
Collecting money and making a profit are two different things. And I will never understand what the patting on the back and feel good cheering events have to do with business. If you want to open a McDonalds, you don't spend 4 years going to events, buying dvds, cds, books and other crap and hearing essentially nothing about how to make a burger.
As far as McDonalds goes you do have to go to school(Hamburger college) and learn their system which takes 9 to 24 mths. You also have to follow that system completely. That is why you will have success in owning a business.
Everything rises and falls on leadership and needs a system for success including our government. This is a good thing can you imagine without a system what would go on!
We should all be part of a great SYSTEM of (books, cds, association) to learn and improve upon ourself. If you can take part in something such as what TEAM offers, You could realize that every person was born with seeds of greatness inside them.
From the words of Lou Holtz "No one is born a winner or loser, but we are all born CHOOSERS."
People like Orrin are rare and we all should be grateful for such people. Ask yourself who else is encouraging you to excel? I encourage you to decide to learn and grow you to can make a difference!
My husband was contacted about 2 weeks ago regarding TEAM from a man who is involved with the business. The last two weeks has been miserable. The man has called more than twenty times, last week I was very ill and my husband told him that and he just stopped by at 9:30 at night to tell us something "exciting", we told him that we are praying about this decision and we hadn't made up our minds yet. He asked if it was the registration fee that was bothering us. Well yes thats part of it. If I had the money I would be paying off bills with it. Thanks. He then proceeded to ask if we could borrow the money or if there was anything we could sell. So Jon don't get on here and tell people there is no badgering involved because there is! He then stopped by again today(two days later) and asked the same question!! Could we sell anything?!! I'm not going to say anything bad about Orrin Woodward or Chris Brady they are obviously highly intelligent men. And have done well. And they are probably very nice people. Oh by the way Jon you said you haven't had much success, well there it is people. But I know that the people above him probably are. And if you need to have TEAM to help you believe in yourself, then my heart goes out to you. If that is where you find fellowship with other people then more power to you, but that is no reason to join TEAM. I just sat here and laughed when I heard just a nobody and Dora's responses. They sound like the people that have been a constant at our house pressuring us for the last 14 days. They are giving the "speech", if you want to defend TEAM you need to come up with something better than
the things they told you to say to alienate everyone around you!!! Nice try, but you didn't make a case for TEAM at all. Better luck next time! I'm not saying this program won't work, it very well may. But I can tell you what I have experienced with these people. Harrassment. Alienation. I don't know when they're just going to show up at our house un-announced. I have been asked to sell stuff or borrow money for the registration. We may have just been approached by the wrong people, but this is the truth. These people by the way are people we serve with at church and now I can't even look at them without feeling frusterated or wanting to run the other way.
I don't really know how to respond to this lady who is saying someone from TEAM is badgering her to be successful in a positive manner but I'll try... I guess some people are just to busy knocking opportunity to hear opportunity knocking and that's sad. There are actually some people out there that would rather work their lives away and never see their family than try something different, and help other people. Whats more sad is that they waste their time bashing the people who have courage enough to go out and take advantage of this opportunity. I guess the word I'm looking for is pathetic, yea that's the one its pathetic for someone to make a blog bashing someone elses success instead of earning success for them selves. Whats really sad is that some poor soul might be out there checking out the TEAM on-line and come acrossed this pathetic little blog and listen to these cowardly critics and maybe just let them steal their dreams away.
irishqueen, sorry to here you have been bugged by someone on the Team. In all likelyhood, you have been dealing with a new member who is excited. Yea, they probably didn't approach you in the best fashion, or show you the best layout of our business, or even follow through with you well. It's called being human, and being new (most likely). I can guarantee you, personally knowing the leaders on the Team (and considering myself one of them, or at least up and coming), that they would not have handled things like that. From experience, I can tell you that what you interpreted as pushy from this particular Team IBO is probably powered by what he sees the Team can do for you. Think about the implications of that for just a second. I hope you don't let that push the opportunity away from you. We are a huge team, and we are a team of people, and like everyone else, we are imperfect. Our business isn't even perfect. But I'd recommend giving this IBO the benefit of the doubt. More importantly, I'd recommend putting aside him entirely, for the moment, and focus more on the business itself and what it can do for you. If the business is good, and it definitely is, then wouldn't it be silly to let someone turn you off to it? Who are you really hurting? You're just one of a number of people they'll need to be financially free. If it's not you, it'll be someone else. They'll make it one way or the other.
And since it appears I have some fellow Team members on here, I have to say it...
Team Rampage, Fired up!
How is the Team any different from Quixtar? Aren't they both selling the same energy drinks and have the same concept of recruiting people to purchase products, thus creating a revenue stream for those who purchase products underneath themselves?
I'm Walter Curtis and if you get this orrin you are my idole check us out and email me back please. we are in the buisness my moms name amy richards and my dads name is jeff richards
As someone who has been in this business a couple weeks, I was initially going to defend TEAM. However, my eyes have been opened. To the two negative responses above, "ateamrampagepowerplayer" and no name, Orrin Woodward very clearly directs IBOs who have to deal with someone who suggests they are short of money to "take [them] to their garage and ask, "So, what is something you thought once held value that you would be willing to sell?" He says that on Handling Objections. So, if you are trying to say this IBO who is telling the lady to sell her stuff in order to get into HIS business is some kind of renegade, he is just a minion, following the explicit directions of his master. How could you be a "power player" and not have heard that CD?
WOW you all! This is unbelievable. Maybe, this whole thing started because you don't have what Orrin has and you're bitter. I can't think of another reason. Here is a man, an average Joe, who used his brain, and reasoning to revolutionize distribution.
He did what Dell did, what Walmart did, and what Mcdonalds did (all VERY successful companies) and made it not only BETTER, but everyone can have the success (if they want it). How come he's not being nominated for "Greatest Business Man Of America" award? Instead, you're all criticizing his accomplishments.
This is a business;with a focus on leadership. If you want an education in leadership, go ahead and go to college, get a degree, and punch a clock everyday. That's perfectly ok. Of course, you can invest very few $$ on these awesome cd's, learn how to share this awesome plan, and you WILL be on your way to Orrin's success.
Do you get up and work for your paycheck? I'll bet you do. Well, I have news for ya...you'll have to work for this too.
Money is not free folks. If it is, you better run the other way because you're about to get scammed.
This is not Amway, Shaklee, McDonalds, Walmart or anything else you think this is. I urge every one of you who are negative about Orrin Woodward and his revolutionary business concept to restructure your thoughts on what you think this business is, because it's not that.
It is so simple that you literally have to reprogram your thinking here else you'll never get it.
Good luck to all of you! Tomorrow is going to be better than today, and today was great. Where are you going to be tomorrow?
I am toying with the idea of joining in on this business prospective. However, I am very leery about it and wanted some further advice/opinions. I would like to hear the good, bad and the ugly. Anyone out there doing really great with this or anyone that gave it their all and that it didn't work out? I don't want to waste any more time - I have priorities but if this can help put them in order I'm willing to do it! Thanks!!
I've been reading all these posts just thinking. As for the last question...is it good, bad and ugly....yes all of the above. As someone pointed out earlier it is BUSINESS!!. You are going to have to work at it, you will fail sometimes and get rejected and probably want to quit. At the same time if you formulate a plan you CAN BE successful. No promises though!! Macy went bankrupt I believe 5 TIMES until his store made it. Milton Hershey (Hershey Chocolate in PA) was penny-less a couple of times until his idea took.
This is no different. It is ONE idea to try and build income for yourself. And you probably have the same probability of success as anyone who starts a business...whatever it is. And if you know business...that isn't necessarily good. BUT, I believe this is a better opportunity for what some people call 'regular people' because of the following
1) the initial investment is low (approx $225)
2) you can work at your own pace
3) you don't HAVE TO BUY those tapes/cd's/dvd's (I don't care what anyone tells you...you need to understand that you don't have to buy them...me and my brother are in...he buys them i DON'T !!!)
4) Since you don't have to be the 'infrastructure' of the company you can ramp up or down at your convenience (i just had a baby and have been relatively quiet on the business the past 4 months but ready to ramp it back up again).
It is a model just like any other business model out there. Can it work--YES. Will it work for you - I have no idea..that depends on YOU!
To Team affiliated IBOs
What Team has taught you regarding business building may put you at legal and regulatory risk – but we can help
We are in an exciting period in the history of this business. We are making unprecedented investments to make your businesses better – more than $60 million in new money in Quixtar Business Incentives, launch of training to help make IBOs more successful, and exciting new product and category launches. Overall, the Company is spending more than $200 million in product development, brand building, training and compensation enhancements to make this business bigger and more successful than ever.
We also are taking steps to address issues that have plagued our business and hampered our success, which is why we are contacting you today.
After working with Team training organization founders, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, on issues related to the teaching by the organization on positioning of the business as the Team opportunity, the practice of “stacking,” or inappropriate depth-building, the use of unauthorized business support materials, and because they told Company executives that they intend to begin soliciting IBOs to join their new competing MLM, the Company has terminated Woodward and Brady’s Quixtar businesses. These issues put the Company and IBOs at serious and immediate risk of legal and regulatory actions and needed to cease immediately. And, we should note that no IBO has left Amway or Quixtar and successfully launched a competing business. Moreover, they, together with other Team, Legacy and Team 5K IBOs plan to file a class action lawsuit in Federal Court against Quixtar.
Quixtar recently provided an opportunity for Woodward and Brady to work with the Company to cure their contract breaches, but they were unwilling to even listen to the plan. The Company now finds Woodward and Brady to be in default of their agreement with the Company and, as a result, their businesses were terminated.
Quixtar acknowledges that the vast majority of IBOs affiliated with Team have conducted their businesses as taught by the Team organization. As a result, there are Team-related IBOs who do not have an accurate understanding of the importance of positioning the business properly with prospects and building depth within the Rules. We can help you through that.
Quixtar remains committed to the support of all IBOs and will work with those who agree to abide by the Company’s rules and maintain high ethical standards. That includes all Team-affiliated IBOs who wish to continue building their Quixtar businesses in compliance with the rules and by correcting positioning and stacking behaviors.
We hope you accept our invitation to remain a valued and productive member of the Quixtar business. We will be following up with more information soon and encourage you to call your Quixtar Sales Advisor with any questions.
Sincerely,
Jim Payne
Executive Vice President and Managing Director
Quixtar Inc.
Quixtar is Amway, Amway is Quixtar Amway-Quixtar just termated Orrin Woodwords businesses. No more Team.
i was just thinking the other day as to how my life is turning out. Now I don't have a college degree. I am just your all american labor intensive worker. For the past 10 years, I have done nothing but struggle with finances. Sure, I could have took initiative and fixed that, but my thinking wasn't correct. I was never taught finances. My parents lived paycheck to paycheck, heh, they still do. I would like to know an income level that the average man/woman, or family, can not live paycheck to paycheck and have money in the bank. We are programmed to impulse buy, and create more debt for ourselves.
I am trying to figure out how successful I can be in the corporate world. In the labor world. I see my boss in the company I work for struggle with finances. HE MAKES 170,000 a year. But he has a huge house, huge truck, boats, four wheelers, horses, and a family. What are the priorities that come with more money.
My point of this is, I just joined the TEAM in January. I immediately got on the system. I couldn't afford it at the time. But I did it. In the short time in the business I have learned how to control my own money. And on the TEAM, I am making enough money back to where all my products and system are paid for. This business has been the best thing for me, and my family. My children watch less TV and read more books. My wife and I have a better relationship.
Now I suppose this all could have happened without the TEAM, but how? My thinking was in such a RUT. It has been a blessing for this to come along. I thank the LORD everyday for the chain of events that happened for me to be in this business.
This is just a personal story. The business does work. What else do you have? What will you be doing in 5 years? Will your income be that muc better? Will you actually have the opportunity to retire? What were you called to do with your life? We only have one life. I want to spend every moment with my wife and kids. It hurts to get up in the morning and go to work. I HATE IT. If anyone has another way to make money, to where I can stay home with my family everyday, travel the world, and not have debt, just comment and leave your email or something. I know the TEAM works, and I don't know another way.
HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY
Curious, look for the fruit on the tree. Don't waste time with the ugly. If you were applying to Harvard for a top-notch education, would you waste one second seeking the opinion of drop-outs, or someone who never even went to college in hopes they can talk you out of it? Find someone who is successful at this business (not the drop outs). That will be easy. Ask them how they did it. They will tell you. No, they will show you and teach you. I guarantee it. No one in this business became successful without first creating success for many others. Unlike cooporate America, your mentor has a vested interest in your success. You need only have hunger and be a good student. As for all the nay-sayers, again don't bother. I haven't seen anyone offer their system for success. Guess we're all too busy working to consider it. Besides, we're all content sitting here with our own mediocrity, offering negative comments about those trying to be successful. Now get out of here and chase your dreams. Or wait for me to do it for you. Your choice.
this isn't news. These so called hidden articles are in the Team Textbook and on CD's. The Team is the best business there is. You don't know what you don't know. Before anyone knocks it you should get the facts. Any real business takes 2-5 years to get going. This is the most fantastic business out there. Of course money is made from speaking and tools as well as profit sharing and rebates. And everyone has the same chance.
WOW!! I feel really really bad for all the people who are badgering orrin woodward and the TEAM with negative criticism, You people really dont have any Idea at all what the team is where its going at this point in time, all I can say is this, Every one told Sam Walton he was crazy when he said he was going to be bigger than Kmart some day. They said Walmart would never work,,,hmmmmm what do you think they are saying now?? Just sit back and watch people, the biggest company the world has ever seen is on the rise and cannot be stopped. And when all is said and done i can gaurantee you your not going to get a bunch of I TOLD YOU SO'S, we will just move foreward and smile, continue to make a difference in this messed up world we live in and help as many people who want to be helped. I am truly curious to see what all the critics will be saying in 10 yrs from now. Sit back and enjoy the show people. I think i can safely say from the TEAM, we love you all, you just simply dont understand...."YET"
I have been an IBO for a while. Started with an Amway distributor # because Quixtar had not opened yet. Always thought the Quixtar vehicle would be the best opportunity most people could use to improve their financial/personal situation. Quixtar is a great vehicle. Quixtar was never Amway. Two seperate/different vehicles.
The Alticor corporation which owns both Amway and Quixtar wants to merge the two vehicles together for greater worldwide market leverage. This move is not welcomed by Quixtar IBOs because Amway has market image problems in the US. Alticor is saying that big money will be spent to repair the image problems and stop illegal activities damaging our business. They want people to know that they have a great opportunity. This is a challenging adjustment, but I can appreciate their desire to fix a problem (if they act accordingly).
My response is provoked by the messages of Mr. Woodard and what I have seen/heard in the past. The changes I described above are the real reason (in my opinion) why Team and other IBOs are acting out. More of the reason has to do with Quixtar's desire to stop illegal activties. Activities like Team members refusing to admit they are affiliated with Quixtar. They are by contract, and they know it! Stacking, or improperly registering new IBOs is another important legal issue.
I wish I was surprised by what I see here. This kind of behavior has taken place before. It hurts our business. Smart and seemingly even humble people get a good idea, but with time, the ownership of that idea allows ego to take hold. Like our politicians, they either ignore or are blind to the obvious fact that they are breaking important rules. Some experience in a court room will provide a big lesson. I feel for those who are being misled.
The auto business trained people to be like this, thats why I quit. Now US auto and the state of Michigan are broke!
Finally, Quixtar is a great way to get guaranteed products direct to your door. Our group does not focus on recruiting people. We focus on exceeding customers expectations. No pressure! We are on a great track! It is unfortunate, these activities slow us down when helping others.
Nice legal shmegal entry by the Quixtar attorney. Anyone who reads the lawsuit knows the truth. Also, he mentions they are "gonna" file the suit. It was filed before you made this entry. Now starts the propaganda parade. I have been in Amway/Quixtar for 11 years. I cannot believe what I am reading from the corporation. Their official statements and statements from execs. Blows my mind. With the Internet, there is a way to timeline, exposing the truth. It will get ironed out. I'm simply flabbergasted.
CD
What is stacking and why is it not permitted?
Robert, Please think before you enter a comment. If you truly knew anything about TEAM and Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady you would know this not the end. Not the end at all, infact it is the dawn. Quixtar is just a product place. That is all they did for TEAM and its affiliated IBO's, provide the products. Actually the business (TEAM) is much much more and Quixtar is just a small fraction of the pie, and the least important fraction at that. Watch out the TEAM will take over. It Will Happen.
So Quixtar is making claims of illegal practices against TEAM? Well, that's a natural reaction for a company that is out of touch with current reality. What worked in the past for them isn't working now. Note the lawsuits against Q in Britain and India among others in the U.S.
TEAM for years has tried to show Q the folly of its illegal and onerous ways but was speaking to deaf ears. TEAM even Q showed how to drastically increase profits for everyone thru DOT1 STEP but Q wouldn't acknowledge this accomplishment because it was done with products other than Q's. Can't have that now, can we?
Furthermore, TEAM was Q's shining star for 6-7 years in a row as their fastest growing organization. But once TEAM called out Q and then wanted out altogether, suddenly TEAM is engaged in illegal practices? Where was Q in 2000 when TEAM became Q's best player? Since Q allowed TEAM to continue in its "illegal" ways for almost 7 years, it looks like Q's lawsuit is filed against themselves, also!
Note to Jim Payne: TEAM IBO's are smarter and better informed than you give them credit for, and can see through the lies and misinformation you posted on this website.
Reality check to Jim Payne: All organizations must continue to change or cease to exist, and it looks like Quitar/Amway/Alticor will go screaming and raving into the cold, dark, night of irrelevance.
Q's inability to adapt will have people in the near future talking about the company like this: "I remember Quixtar; what'd they sell, insurance?"
Hi to all. I read all the comments with great interest. My wife and I are not members of TEAM but we are IBO's in another organization within the Quixtar business. Our group has been studying the TEAM approach to building. We have benefited greatly from the system of tools and seminars. This business is so versatile and amazing. If you have great leadership you will grow personally to places you can't even imagine. We got started over 20years ago.I was a ticket agent for a bus company and my wife was a secretary. There were times when we were very active and making a good buck and there were times when we slowed down to nothing. All the while we maintained our commitment voluntarily to the tools and seminars. Neither one of have a college education but we have learned more from the system than most college graduates we know. We used to work for corporate america but because of the principals we learned through the business and the money management teachings we were able to get out of debt, then save money to the point we had 5 years income in the bank and quit our jobs to do real estate full time. Since then we have opened our own office and are succeding in a down market because of the leadership principals we learned in the business. We are very close to our mentors even though our group has fallen by the wayside and we are not actively building. When we needed information about important decisions for our real estate business we were able to meet with them and gain powerful insight that saved us time and money let alone what could have been tragic mistakes.
As a conventional business owner I can tell you that this business is a steal. If you look at it from a logical point of view. We have been in our real estate business for just over two years and have not taken a paycheck. We put in 250,000 and the business still owes us 150,000. We did not take out any loans and paid cash for all our equipment. In the 20 years we have been IBO's we have not spent anywhere near what it cost us just for our franchise fee. So I say to all of you that are looking for a business this is a real business without the overhead, without the employees and with unlimited income opportunities. I can't wait to get our conventional business to the point that it takes care of itself and jump back into helping other people be able to realize their dreams through business ownership and self development. Just remember that there is no free lunch. You will have to work and it won't be convienent. It will be an investment in your future. By the way we order products every single month. If we have it in our business and we use it we buy it from ourselves. We have done that from day one. I hope this helps some of you who are confused by all of the people who are either too lazy or don't understand the advantage of personal growth. The business and the system is the best bargain out there. Think about it, it has stood the test of time. There have been other MLM's that have come and gone. Why play in the sandbox when you could have the whole ocean. The challenges will be worked out.
I know this was long but I don't usually post anything and probably won't be back to do any rebuttals and wanted to put my 2-3 cents in.
Greg,
Stacking occurs when either the new Independent Business Owner or the sponsoring IBO do not agree to the partnership. Both parties need to be aware and agree to the partnership.
I have just spent the last twenty minutes reading through this blog and I feel compelled to post a comment here. As a proud member of the TEAM and a recently RESIGNED QUIXTAR IBO, I relate to some of the criticism of the Quixtar/ Amway model and why things need to change. The TEAM has left Quixland by choice, for an idea whose time has come. Soon the critics will have more to squawk about. You see, it is evident that every human achievement, and every leader throughout history has been subject to the opinion of critics. Including the Name Above All Names. Because it is far easier to condemn, criticize, complain and to quit on yourself, or worse yet, not even try, than to put it on the line and strive for something extraordinary. For those of you from this camp I offer the following quote from Teddy Roosevelt...
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt
I have heard it said..."some people are going to make it happen, some will watch it happen and then there are those that will be asking...What happened?" For those of you who are debating whether the TEAM Leadership development system is worthy of your participation, It is my hope that you find the answer an unequivocal YES! For those critics camped on the sidelines, - stay tuned. you have only begun to hear about Orrin, Chris and the rest of the world class leaders on the TEAM.
"The futures so bright... I gotta wear shades!"
TEAM is wonderful. A group of positive people trying to help others.....what is wrong with that? I haven't figured a lot of people out, but I will say that I have tried and will continue to try to understand why people are afraid to admit to themselves or others that this society is a very negative society looking to drag the next person down. Thankfully, TEAM members are all in the same boat together. We are all trying to get out of this negative trench that society lives in, and actually do something about our less than fortunate situations.
TEAM isn't weakened by these negative people or comments. And these people making negative comments about TEAM are not strengthened. True, there is strength in numbers...and there is A LOT of people out there who would rather stand around and criticize and complain.
I joined TEAM not because anyone promised me money or anything like that. Nobody "promises" anything. TEAM made me realize that I didn't have to belong to a group of negative people trying to tear me down and make me lose hope in my dreams. TEAM did the opposite, and if anyone writing negative comments about TEAM would stop and realize that they are only reproducing negativity.... they might learn something.
I am very proud to be assocoiated with TEAM.
The principal-based leadership you may choose to learn at TEAM is not a new concept. I still have trouble understanding why I need to purchase "tools" written by or sold by Orrin or anyone in this "IBO" when you can purchase books like those any place that sells books. I agree with the principals they are teaching. These people do look for honest people to invite into their business, which means you usually find them at church. Does anyone remember what happened when Jesus found the men selling stuff at the temple, sorry I don't know the verse but it's in there. It's real bad-don't sell stuff at church, or recruit people to sell stuff from church. This is simply greed creeping in. No one here has a problem with finding a better way to make money, no one has a problem with using money apropriately once wealth has been achieved- the problem is a lot of people here think they need TEAM to do this. Here's a book for you: Beginning HTML and Java, by millions of different authors. Think up something you would like to see on the internet, write the website, if you think you can't do that, google motivation. If you're struggling, Google Michael Dell and read some of his bios or Google some other major business and READ about them. Investing your time by READING, that's what they're selling us right...the concept that we can achieve great wealth by taking the time now to improve ourselves...dang guys, just read the bible and a good book about business or something.
wow. i was just approached today by a TEAM member, we're supposed to attend a meeting this coming tuesday and proceed w/ further follow-up afterwards. i want to say thank you for ALL of your comments both in support and attack of the practice/organization/whatever you choose to call it. what i have learned is this is not for my family. so will we continue on in the rat race until we retire broken, beaten and worn and living off fixed incomes barely able to meet our monthly expenses? yes. at least that's a sure thing for us. we know what to expect. for those of you who have already achieved success and those who foresee your success that is wonderful and i'm happy to know someone is benefitting. anyhow, to all, thanks for helping me save my gas on tuesday by not attending the meeting.
whenindoubt...
Be encouraged. I'm thinking my point is this...TEAM is not the only way. There's other ways. Even the job I'm in right now could bring me financial wellness if I'd buckle down and get out of debt (which we're doing). And, well before 45 years of pushing the grindstone!
For those who work at jobs they love that offer a valuable service to others (like me), it's not an all-or-nothing thing. I enjoy what I'm doing right now, PLUS, we're building income on the side (Not with TEAM) that not only helps our future, but also helps us right now and, offers the same to others WITHOUT hurting them! I don't have to hate my job, hate my work, hate my boss, etc. in order to build a business on the side that someday will replace that income and offer me choice. And, I don't have to forsake my family, neglect NOW in order to do that. There are sacrifices, to be sure, that have to be made...and need to be made. But, I'll never again sacrifice the critical for the possible.
It is possible to me that God wants me right where He has me in my job for specific purposes...for me, and for others. I'll continue blooming where I'm planted, continue improving myself and continue following His plan, not my own (or someone else's for that matter!)
All it takes is hunger, integrity, character and long term vision (oh, and the willingness to help others before you help yourself!).
Blessings...
Levi
Who is orrin going to buy his products from now?
Dawn...
Direct from the source...
http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog
See his entry on Feb 15 at 10:12 pm.
Levi
It's truly amazing the celebration that is taking place within the TEAM. The DeSalvatore's for example have reached "Policy Council". Translated it means that they have finished restacking their previous Amway/Quixtar business into 2 legs and have everyone slotted where they want them. Apparently their success is a result of being introduced to TEAM. They were successful in Amway, before Quixtar and meeting Orrin Woodward had nothing to do with that at all.
I had a lot of respect for many of these people for many years - "had" is the key word. As long as money from CDs, Books and Seminars continues to flow they will all be wealthy. At the end of the day this is a bunch of Diamonds+ trying to stay "retired".
When ANY of you are as well read as Orrin, has helped one tenth of the people he has, have a book on the New York Times Best Seller, or has donated one tenth the money he has to charity then you will have earned the right to say anything.
Rio...
Success is a funny thing isn't it? It can be blinding. Either to those who have achieved it, or those who are following them.
I appreciate your loyalty to Orrin. He has done much good.
He has also made mistakes.
You can't just point to all the great things he's done without looking at the costs of achieving that...especially when it's the cost of others.
I'd prefer people show me my mistakes so I don't continue making them and so I can seek forgiveness. When I mess up, I had better be ready to be told that SO THAT I can change direction and make it right. Every leader expects and prefers to be honestly criticized rather than placated. Keeps you humble.
Now, by this worlds standards, he's wildly successful. But success does not equate to right...and there are thousands of fine people left bleeding in the battlefield of his leadership decisions. Thousands...
He's gotta own that one.
That's nothing against all the good he's done...just means, he's made mistakes and others have paid for his leadership decisions...period. That, despite all his successes, makes him just like everyone else.
Wouldn't it be nice to run a business where people DON'T get hurt? I'm thinking that should be a foundational principle of a successful business, don't you think?
You gotta be careful where you're leading those who are following.
In His service...
Levi
Anon...
Yup...We know of specific people.
Also, generally speaking, its fairly easy, looking back, to see how that could happen...seeing now exactly how the business is laid out.
I think Orrin does a remarkable job at outlining the complementary business model. While I don't support his business model, his points actually make sense.
If someone knowingly signs a BSMAA, becomes an INDEPENDENT business owner, buys tools and does nothing to make a profit, then he can only blame himself for losing money. The challenge is, many don't want to take that responsibility.
Does this change the fact that income representations by people in the business can be fraudulant? No. Does this change the fact that people are pressured directly or indirectly, to buy tools? No.
It does, however, shed light on the fact that we like blaming others for our own failures and stupidity.
Posted by: Evan | September 21, 2004 10:33 PM