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September 27, 2004
Challenge for Quixtar Advocates
By QBlog in
Many Quixtar Advocates allege that critics of the business lack the necessary qualifications to make critical comments. Yet those allegations are rarely followed up with any description of the missing qualifictions. Surely such a description exists, right? I imagine Ray A. Kroc qualifies but not everyone can start a global fast food franchise. So what are the qualifications?
Challenge to Quixtar Advocates
My challenge is simple: List the qualifications you require of Quixtar critics before you'll listen to their criticisms. Be specific. Be honest. Be candid. Be as brief as possible.
For the language challenged, "listen to" means to thoughtfully consider with an open mind. It means to acknowledge that you may be wrong and the person talking (or writing) may be right. It means to be willing to concede that the other person may know more about the subject than you do.
Comments
I am a Q IBO. The following are the qualifications I require of anybody I would listen to.
1. Must have built the Q business to a platinum level atleast.
2. Must not critize the person but the behavior.
3. Must give details on preventing that behavior from occuring within the organization itself.
4. Give a solution for the problem and not just the problem. That means that person is the problem.
5. Must not behave as-if they know everybody who is an IBO just because they know a handful.
6. Must produce facts and not just talk fiction.
7. Must provide unbiased information. i.e., Talk about the behavior and solution within the organization and not give the solution as another useless pyramid.
This will do for now.
And as for you "Cliff"... you can really jump of you.
"1. Must have built the Q business to a platinum level atleast."
You are talking about less than .5% of the IBO's in Quixtar. That's silly. So 99.95% of current and former Quixtar IBO's are not to be listened to?
Good one.
QBlog,
What I would look for is not so much "qualifications", but instead a critic that displays a professional attitude in their views, and one that is willing to debate issues and admit when they are wrong.
I post occasionally on this blog because I feel that you display the qualities of a critic that I can respect. I have been wrong on here and you have corrected me, and you have admitted in posts before when you have been wrong.
You have also been pretty fair from what I can tell, and getting more neutral in your site, which brings in more IBO's like myself for logical debates.
Good response Q IBO. I think that I would be willing to listen with an open mind to someone even if they hadn't built their business to the Platinum level. But obviously, the more experience they have, the more open-minded I would be. Platinum level definitely adds credibility to their opinions.
I'm not a Quixtar advocate, but I'll answer here since I wrote about the credibility of Mr. VanDruff.
First, I'd listen to anyone and thoughtfully consider their thoughts. But if then their thoughts contradict or show lack of knowledge about the subject matter, then I'd start to question.
Then I'd look to see what qualified them to speak on the matter.
Let's take an analogy. If someone were criticizing life in Hong Kong, I'd listen to their thoughts, but if the ideas started to sound contradictory or logically unsound, I'd ask what they were basing their thoughts on. If they hadn't lived in or at least visited Hong Kong and they hadn't read about Hong Kong, but had only talked to people that moved to the US that were disgruntled with Hong Kong, I would consider their thoughts very suspect.
So to recap, if the thoughts logically follow, I'd listen to anyone. Given two competing thoughts, I'd give more credibility to those that have experienced first hand and read about the subject matter.
And I like QBO's ideas also, especially about giving solutions instead of more problems, but I think that Platinum requirement is a little high.
Ambivalent
If my local grocery store was run like the Quixtar line of sponsorship I was in, I would be greeted by a sacker at the front door. He would be very excited but very broke except for the pocket change in his pants.
He would tell me how great it is to work for and buy products from his store and that if I didn't do what he was doing, I would be a loser for the rest of my life. He would introduce me to his manager, a man with more money than I make but he makes it partly because he has so many sackers, checkers and stockers working for him. Nothing wrong with it....but there's only one store mgr. per store. Always. Just one. Anyone can be a mgr. if they have enough sackers, checkers and stockers saying, "Yessir, yessir, yessir." In my line of sponsorship, it was duplication more than leadership. But the only thing being duplicated was empty hype. I had some good times with good people. But I was also in it for some income and saw very little. Sure looked good on the dry-erase board. Out of respect to my former upline, I elect not to divulge a name because he ultimately wasn't responsible for what came downline. It was whoever told him to pass it down. I may never know who that is nor do I care to.
Hype is dead. Long live the truth.
Everyone is stressing on the point 1, requiring a platinum qualification. I should have been more clear why I said that. Let me give it a try here.
An analogy. Taking from Ambivalent about the Hong Kong theory, the people that just have a third-hand opinion (hearing from people who are disgruntled with that place) is just totally out. Having said that , if people visited Hong Kong and are not satisfied (thats second hand opinion), that also doesn't qualify them to criticize on that. That is because they might have just been to a specific location where the people might not have been that nice and so they have a bad opinion. Another thing would be they could have been just "tourists" which directly disqualifies them to talk about living in a place.
So, the third and only option, is criticism from people who lived there and made/tried to make a living there. Similary critisizing the Q biz should not be from people who just went to the meeting or signed up and expected the platinums to pop out of their kit. It should be from people who built it. Thats where platinum level gives credibility to be listened to. And of course I am talking about criticism and not promoting the business which is what most platinums do. (and there is nothing wrong with that.. :-))
BTW, I have nothing against Hong Kong, and people, don't start trashing me :-).
QBlog, I respect you on one thing which is to not trash people like "cliff" does. Q IBOs are not "doggies", they are people, just like you and me.
1. I find discussions that deteriorate into personal attacks to be counter-productive. If the objective of the debate is to convince other arguers to alter their stance on a given issue, name calling only serves to polarize the two sides and to close instead of open minds. When called on bad behavior, the offender invariable responds with a "who me?" innocence. So my first request is that posters remain civil.
2. Secondly, I question whether there can ever be an honest dialogue when posters are anonymous. The issue of motivation is always open to question. I know what my motivation is: I wish to understand the aversion felt by some against Quixtar. If one were to stop and consider, the number of truly angry individuals is small, given the large number in the business now or who have been in the business over time. Yet even though they are few, the detractors are devoted to the extent that many of them spend time and effort posting here day after day. So, my second request is that posters stand up and say who they are and what their affilation is and what their connection to Quixtar is or has been.
Qblog, perhaps you could create a mini-environment within the blog where a pre-selected group of thoughtful pros and cons could debate without the discussion being hijacked by a few rabble rousers? I would nominate Chris to speak for me as an IBO. I think he has done a good job of providing insight into how a good Quixtar team operates.
Sharon
A QBO,
1. I consider that to be an unrealistic expectation for the same reasons given by Ty.
2. It's hard not to criticize the person when people are living in a country where you decide how it is you wish to behave. As far as a solution to the behavior of some distributors, I believe that should fall upon the corporation, as they are allowing people to vend their products.
3. To prevent the unprofessional (sometimes illegal) behavior, the corporation has to step up to the plate.
4. The problem is that certain people are giving the corp. a bad name. If it bothers the Corp., they should have a code of conduct and enforce it. Otherwise, accept the poor image these people you allow to continue provide.
5. I was an IBO. I knew many other IBO's. I was involved for a year, followed the system, never turned a profit.
6. The facts are, the vast majority of products are just not competitive. Shipping is not as reliable as other big box stores, and is also, in my experience, more expensive. It is not as simple as ordering it one day and having it arrive on your doorstep within 48 hours.
7. The behavior of my upline (True North in Canada) was disgraceful, in my opinion, and very deceptive. For further info, check out Scott Larsen's website with the Don Lorencz article. I witnessed what is detailed there. The solution for that problem lies, in my opinion, with the corporation (does anyone else see a pattern emerging here?)
Nobody but the corporation is in any position to change anything. I believe they choose not to, for fear of what may happen to their company.
Rocket,
My latest order from Quixtar was last Sunday, late afternoon. The order showed up on my doorstep on Tuesday, early afternoon. Last time I checked that was less than 48 hours. The shipping was free, reliable, and the products were competitively priced. Those are the facts.
Chris
I'm glad it works well for you.
It did not for me, nor others in my group and upline. As far as competitively priced, that's subjective. To me, competitively priced means that the prices are good enough that people would join just to buy from themselves. Unless there have been massive changes in pricing, I don't think people not involved would agree with you.
I guess I'm behind the Quixtar times. When I was involved (Amway) there was a 4% shipping fee, and that applied to tools as well.
Good luck with it, I sincerely do hope it works out for you.
Rocket, you were involved with Amway. Quixtar is a new business model, developed specifically for the internet. I know many critics on here will argue the legal terminology, but the reality is that when Quixtar launched, it launched with many differences compared to the Amway business.
Times have and are continuing to change. The business opportunity today is much, much better than the type of business opportunity you had available to you years ago. A majority of the issues that some had experienced in Amway do not exist for many of the Quixtar organizations today.
I realize that product pricing is subjective, but new members and clients register every month in my organization and in Quixtar. They register so that they can shop and get great prices, have the products delivered to their door, utilize cutting edge services like ditto delivery, amazing customer service, and the opportunity to support someone that has their own business instead of just supporting Costco, Wal-Mart, or whoever.
I have not yet heard a good debate from any critic on the prices of the products being too expensive. There are hundreds of thousands of products to choose from, so an IBO has many different ways to earn pv/bv and members and clients can almost always find what they are looking for through the Quixtar website.
Some products might be more expensive, some less expensive, and the majority are at reasonable, competitive prices.
I agree with you that the corporation needs to put an end to bad things when they happen, but at the same time, I appreciate a certain amount of freedom as an IBO. I should be free to develop training materials and sell them to my organization if I want. There should be guidelines that Quixtar puts out to IBO's for them to follow when it comes to tool sales, but it should be allowed.
The tools help IBO's succeed and are priced very reasonably. I would be nowhere in this business if it wasn't for the system. I am very thankful that it was developed and that it was optional for someone like me who quickly took advantage of the option to gain knowledge and skills of the business through the system of training materials.
I am sorry that you had the experience that you did with your ex-organization. If they truly had that type of attitude towards you then that was wrong, and I just want to let you know that not every IBO or organization is like that.
The majority of us care about people and want to see them succeed. We have integrity, honesty and good work ethic. We are individuals, just like the critics on this site, who want the best for everyone and believe in what we are doing with Quixtar.
As QBlog would say, we are the "Quixtar Backbone", and that includes Platinums, Emeralds, Diamonds and above, not just 100pv, 300pv, and 1000pv IBO's.
There is only one true acceptable critic:
your bottom line.
Do a balance sheet and P&L.
Do it every month.
Do it every year.
After a year or two, it is completely irrelevant how great the people are, how much self-growth you get from books and tapes, what a great website quixtar has. Those things can be had elsewhere - and are regularly.
Your best critic is your bottom line. Listen to it.
And listen to your own conscience too. The first few times you contacted using the curiosity approach, it felt AWFUL, didn't it?
The first time you chanted "flush that stinkin job" didn't you think, well, hey, I kinda like my job? at least it pays the bills.
I would say both those are qualified critics.
Chris-
I appreciate your zeal but your last comment you stated that
"The business opportunity today is much, much better than the type of business opportunity you had available to you years ago. A majority of the issues that some had experienced in Amway do not exist for many of the Quixtar organizations today."
Can you give me examples of that? I'm very interested in your response because I hated the 'old way' and got very excited about Quixtar when it was announced. I felt I could do something with an online business. I met with my upline and discussed it and heard the same old lines, the old methods and pretty much the same old results. There are still products for sale to consumers right? Most people still don't sell very much, do they? IBOs still are encouraged to sign up for tapes, books and meetings, right? Is it different because now there are websites, voice mail and CD's? Most people still don't make any money, right? What has changed?
And if we are looking to require knowing something about each writer before accepting anything they say--my upline are my parents and they been the equivalent of platinum for 25 years or more. (How's that for backbone?) I am currently a silver.
In regards to A QBO's first requirement:
1. Must have built the Q business to a platinum level atleast
As well as Ambivalents Hong Kong analogy
---
I see these as only applicable to criticisms in Motivational Org criticisms. I have seen many IBO's attempt to apply the same analogy or requirements towards criticisms of the market/business model, and I have heard the same thing said from the podium at every motivational meeting I have attended. I hope the IBO's here will not make the same mistake.
A platinum IBO does not inherently possess the education or qualifications to analyze market theory or business models. They are sales men and women; their job is to make a sale and motivate their peers, and this is obviously where they excel.
I see some logic in wanting only someone who has built it to Platinum,but I was in for 12 years and built it to silver direct, not sounding arrogant, but I knew more of the AmQix biz than some diamonds did.
I have respect for Scott Larsen at Amquix info and would read adn listen to him, just because he takes actual facts like sales figures and pin winners and lets the reader make an inform descision on the Biz. If you asked a big pin they would say "the facts dont, let the dogs bark this caravan is moving on" spoken by Bill Britt.
Well facts to count..especially in biz, and the top companies in the world hire outside consultants who have no experience in building "widgets" but know cash flow.
The reason they hire outside consultants is due to the fact that sometimes a corporation can become "in-bred" and not see the forest thru the trees.
So asking to debate with platinums and above would not be prudent and wise..If you wanted to be like the top corporations.
Just few thoughts.
Can I criticize president if I've never been in the office? Would it affect my credibility?
Can A war victim / veteran, who is disgruntled should not be listened when s/he talks about war?
Only a person with a good q-experience, or has something good to say should be criticizing? And no body else?
Chris, thanks for your reply. You sound like you're having a great time with it. Good for you. I don't think that the opportunity is much different than Amway, but I'd be forced to take your word for it, since I would rather let you win that little debate than consider trying it out again.
If the prices are as competitive as you proclaim, then why does nobody in the business invest in a whole case of catalogs and distribute them? Lots of PV to be had with retail customers.
I suspect it's because the prices are not as competitive as distributors are led to believe.
Good luck to you Chris.
QBO's remarks that an individual must have had to at least hit the platinum level in order to credibly critique the quixtar business has got to be the most silliest thing that I have ever heard of. That's like saying all sports columnists must have played in the NFL and thrown 50 TD passes, or sacked the quarterback 20 times before they can write about the NFL or any of its games in any major or local news or sports publication that they are employed with.
Aside from that fact, there are millions of individuals who have joined and attempted to build the Q & A business over the years who have never reached that level, yet are just as much qualified to express their viewpoints as much as a platinum would, if not more so - considering the fact that they were not as heavily induced by the emotional come-on tactics instituted by the quixtar uplines.
It seems like QBO is just your typical brainwashed IBO who is looking for, in his version of a quixtar business analysis report, positive motivational nonsense in order to fire him or her up, much like you hear on all of the tapes and at all of the seminars that someone who is part of the Q business is pressured to purchase and attend.
For me, the whole point of this challenge was just to find out those qualification expectations from Quixtar Advocates, no matter how unrealistic (or realistic) they may be. If an Advocate says, "only Ray A. Kroc can criticize my business," then so be it.
1. Must have built the Q business to a platinum level atleast
I doubt you'll find someone at the platinum level who is willing to critisize. What better way to shoot out your opposition than to never allow him or her on the playing field.
Chris wrote:
"Rocket, you were involved with Amway. Quixtar is a new business model, developed specifically for the internet. I know many critics on here will argue the legal terminology, but the reality is that when Quixtar launched, it launched with many differences compared to the Amway business."
SAY WHAT??? The quixtar business model is EXACTLY THE SAME as the amway business model was. The only minor difference that occurred is the fact that an IBO can now order his or her products directly from the corporation itself through a fancy website, and then having them shipped to their doorstep; rather than having to manually order them through their sponsor and then going to product pick-up once a week at their sponsor's home in order to pick up their merchandise. Everything else has remained exactly the same.
"Times have and are continuing to change. The business opportunity today is much, much better than the type of business opportunity you had available to you years ago."
Wrong. The quixtar business opportunity is much worse today than it ever was, and continues to get worse every year. The reason for this happening is simply due to the fact that the mlm concept has already reached its saturation limit, where more and more people are continuing to receive a further deteriorating image of the quixtar opportunity, especially with the explosion of online talk forums existing on the internet such as this one.
"A majority of the issues that some had experienced in Amway do not exist for many of the Quixtar organizations today."
That statement is just plain false. Just type in "quixtar" on your favorite search engine and see all of the garbage that you come up regarding the "new & improved business powered by quixtar".
"I realize that product pricing is subjective, but new members and clients register every month in my organization and in Quixtar. They register so that they can shop and get great prices, have the products delivered to their door, utilize cutting edge services like ditto delivery, amazing customer service, and the opportunity to support someone that has their own business instead of just supporting Costco, Wal-Mart, or whoever."
Really? I don't call spending more money on items that you can get at 1/3 the price at a local discount store being a very smart & savvy shopper. Besides, quixtar's own statistics show that a majority of their products purchased are by the IBOs themselves, who are just trying to create an environment of "more is better" so that they can collect on a greater percentage of products & services that are purchased by their downlines.
"I have not yet heard a good debate from any critic on the prices of the products being too expensive."
What's there to debate? Don't take the critics' word on it. Do your own pricing comparison on quixtar vs. conventional store purchasing, you'll see the big difference as millions of others have.
I guess the points didnt come across as I expected it to be. I mentioned the points as criticism to the critics, and I guess as an average IBO I am not being "listened to" by many.
So, as Ty mentioned obviously, I am in the 99.95% of the "current" IBO who is not being listened to even by the critics. :)
What does that tell you?
Anyway, last night got me thinking about who all I listened to in the last 5 yrs (not just for Q but for otherwise too - and yes I do have a LOT of friends outside the biz). So, this is what I came up with. I listened to people whom I admired for having done something in their life, and whom I respected for how they behaved, and who had a lot more experience. That automatically eliminated all people younger than me. (I am 30). That also eliminated people who are financially at my level. (Btw, I read "Think and Grow Rich" before I got into the biz., where Hill mentioned that you are at the level of your association), which was written way before Q (or A for that instance).
That being said, the people who have built the business, criticising anybody else is also opted out. (If you dont understand ask me) I don't listen to that. I always tell my team that people whether they build the business or not are always winners or "potential" winners. I am trying what I can to change some thinking. But not every change can be done in the same day. It takes one change at a time, one place at a time.
Half the people in here are just commenting to vent out their feelings for/against IBOs/Q Corp. That is bad. A critic should be willing to accept that what he thought was bad might actually be good.
As for you "mlmscam", in the NFL theory, its not about the sports columnists, its about the coach, that needs to have thrown 50 TD passes... Hope you get it. Anybody can criticize, but who will be listened to is the question of this blog and not who all can criticize.
mlmscam wrote : "What's there to debate? Don't take the critics' word on it. Do your own pricing comparison on quixtar vs. conventional store purchasing, you'll see the big difference as millions of others have."
Let me see for myself.
Tide :
1 box = $7.50
Number of Loads = 20
SA8 :
1 box = $22.75 (retail price)
Number of Loads = 100
"wow, sa8 is costly". Now lets see the second line where it says "number of loads". Simple calculation would say 5 boxes of Tide = 1 box of SA8. That means 5 x 7.50 = $37.50.
Now, its "wow, tide is costly". And one thing is very clear, "mlmscam" hasn't used any of the products from the corp.
I believe any opinion to be valid if it can be verified. Doesn't matter what experience level. To use the sports analogy, I'm a college football season ticket holder and the guy who has the tickets next to us has amazing knowledge of the game and he's never played higher then Pop Warner. And when I asked him if he ever played college ball, he couldn't even say he played intra-mural ball, because he was in the band!
But he's followed the team since he was a freshman over 20 years ago, and knows the personnel and coaching staffs of all the teams in the conference. So, is his opinion of college football any less then someone who has played and coached? Well, if you don't think so, the next time he tells me to watch for a certain play by an opponent during a certain situation and then break the play down player by player as to why it worked or not against our defense, I'll tell him he knows nothing because he never played the game.
In applied to Quixtar, as with anything, if people can support their viewpoints, regardless of their experience, then I will give more weight to their argument. And I also believe different people will come to different conclusions even if they have similar experiences, and just because there are two sides to a story, doesn't necessarily mean one is right and one is wrong.
Qblog,
No qualifications are needed to listen to Quixtar critics as long as they are shared with sincerity.
Whether one listens to them is up to the individual.
I've heard Diamonds and Emeralds try to get out the slump they are in with their current organization. They try to do the same thing they did in the past, not realizing that what is needed is a fresh new approach. Perhaps listening to critics, as opposed to themselves, would help them better in achieving more success with the organization.
Sorry for for being offtopic here, but I'm responding to things mentioned in these comments:
Rocket wrote:
"Nobody but the corporation is in any position to change anything. I believe they choose not to, for fear of what may happen to their company."
I disagree. I don't think the corporation is in any position to change the problems that you're referring to in any substantial way. I don't know the legalities of this, but IMO since IBOs are separate businesses, the corporation can't tell them how to behave as if they were employees. I would think there might be some restraint of trade issues.
On the other hand, it can use some punitive measures like sanctions to try to influence change. But that's less effective. That's like the US using trade sanctions to influence another's country's behavior--usually not too successful.
As for Quixtar policing the tools problem, IMO, Quixtar has little control over this. What the Diamonds and BSMs want to tell their IBOs is up to them.
As I say this, though, I just thought of the "no other business" rule that QBlog wrote of earlier. I wasn't in the business when this was created, apparently. I wonder how successful at enforcement they've been at this and how they got around the restraint of trade issues.
chris wrote:
"My latest order from Quixtar was last Sunday, late afternoon. The order showed up on my doorstep on Tuesday, early afternoon. Last time I checked that was less than 48 hours. The shipping was free, reliable, and the products were competitively priced. Those are the facts."
Yes, but this was one particular order. I've also had that happen. But I've also waited over 10 days for an order. In my area, they only ship product one day of the week, so if you miss that shipment cutoff, you could be waiting over 13 days for the next cycle unless you pay additional shipping.
How did you get free shipping? I hadn't heard of that before.
chris wrote:
"Rocket, you were involved with Amway. Quixtar is a new business model, developed specifically for the internet. I know many critics on here will argue the legal terminology, but the reality is that when Quixtar launched, it launched with many differences compared to the Amway business."
While I see some advantages to Quixtar (direct shipping, more computerized forms, online ordering, ditto delivery), IMO, there are many disadvantages as well.
My biggest concern about Quixtar is the self-reporting concept for retail. Since Quixtar ships directly to all IBOs, all IBOs are required to do some retail.
In the past in Amway, the company only shipped direct to those who made 7500 PV and higher. All those below had to pick up product from the Directs (called Platinums now). But the Directs were required to show that before they could go Direct, that they have 10 retail customers or had enough PV to satisfy the requirement, and reported this to the corporation. Since this is no longer the case, the enforcement of the requirement of retail, IMO, has gotten a lot more difficult. And therefore, at least in my mind, the legality is more questionable.
It's very difficult to know if your upline is satisfying the requirements for the minimum retail. In the past, there was at least a comfort in knowing that your upline at least satisfied the requirement once.
The other problem I see in Quixtar is one that I didn't have personally but that I saw all around me at the time. Many IBOs would ask the Diamond what to do if the person didn't own a computer. The Diamond would respond, "you're prospecting the wrong people." But although computers are more common, the target market is still not likely to have a computer in many areas. This reduces the target market to less than the entire population.
Ambivalent
Quixmire says it best right here!
"There is only one true acceptable critic:
your bottom line.
Do a balance sheet and P&L.
Do it every month.
Do it every year.
After a year or two, it is completely irrelevant how great the people are, how much self-growth you get from books and tapes, what a great website quixtar has. Those things can be had elsewhere - and are regularly.
Your best critic is your bottom line. Listen to it."
QBLOG:
I think a better forum would be "What type of qualifications does an upline sponsor need to have before an IBO will join?"
It seems (from my limited experience) that people are willing to sign up without any prior business experience; nor do their uplines have any formal business training.
Again, there are exceptions to this rule, just as there are exceptions to any rule.
It goes back to my analogy--if I am going to the dentist, I want the guy operating to have his PhD in dentistry. If I am going to 'partner' with someone in business, I want them to be knowledgeable in business!
Wow, QBO, why are you buying a 20 load box of tide for $7.50?
I pay $2.99 (sale price, I buy a bunch when it's on special) for my favorite detergent (All), which has 33 loads in a 100oz bottle (liquid). So, for one hundred loads, I need to spend $9 plus tax, let's say ten bucks.
A box of SA8 is $22.75 plus tax and shipping, so let's say $25 (that's low, because it's heavy).
$25 vs. $10. A 250% increase in my laundry expense.
Now, I realize that an IBO gets a rebate in line with his monthly PV, but that's not what we're talking about. The question is, is the product marketable to someone OUTSIDE the system (which is the only way to actually make the pyramid a positive cash-flow venture)?
There just aren't that many people anxious to spend 250% more on their laundry detergent.
Evan,
You da man. An IBO like no other.
QBO:
Fortunately for yourself, I am a former brainwashed amquix distributor, so I am able to interpret your "quixtarese" quite proficiently.
You're trying to play word semantic games in order to evade my critical analysis of your last posting, but don't expect me to fall for it. The topic of discussion here is listening credibility, not unjust hateful criticism. In my NFL example, it makes absolutely no difference who the orators and information givers are, whether they be the coaches, the broadcasters up in the booth, or even the sports columnists themselves. The fact of the matter is that all three are associated with the sport of professional football, and speak volumes during each NFL season on the peculiarities of the game - which include the tactics and strategies of the game itself, as well as the personalities, attitudes and motivations of the players performing in the game. The input from all of the above individuals are necessary in order to provide a good quality entertainment package for the average NFL fan, whose purchasing dollars are what support the entire league in the first place.
This clearly illustrates that your argument is a weak one. However, lets give you the unjust benefit of the doubt here and actually run with what you had to say, that it's only the NFL coaches who are credible enough to listen to because they, according to your viewpoint and using my own words, were the ones who "threw 50 TD passes or sacked the QB 20 times". I would like to throw out 3 famous names to you that I'm sure will be recognized if not by yourself, then at least by other individuals who visit this forum:
1) Vince Lombardi - Considered one of the greatest motivating NFL coaches of all time and winner of 2 superbowl trophies with the 1960's Green Bay Packers.
2) John Madden - Was the youngest person to ever hold a head coaching job with an NFL team when he joined the Oakland Raiders as head coach in 1969 at 33 years of age. He then went on to lead a powerhouse raiders team in the 1970's that won a lot of games and consistently made the playoffs year after year, eventually winning the superbowl in 1977. He has since gone on, for the past 25 years, to be the most respected NFL game analyst the sport has ever seen.
3) Bill Walsh - Was considered to have the most genius mind the game of football has ever seen. He was credited as being the architect of turning a losing San Francisco 49ers franchise into one of the most powerful teams of any decade - when he led them to 3 superbowl triumphs during the 1980's.
The most amazing thing about all 3 of these individuals is that none of them ever played a single down in the NFL. So, QBO, even your own analysis taken by itself is faulty.
My apologies, I forgot to identify myself in the posting below.
Thank you CK for that breakdown.
CK Wrote : "There just aren't that many people anxious to spend 250% more on their laundry detergent."
Now, CK, I have 3 clients who just use SA8 (detergent and fabric softners), 2 clients who use DoubleX and Conc. Fruits and Veggies, 4 clients on Artistry skin care, 4 on Tolsom.
Not everybody is willing to be just cheap. Some people, surprisingly, want to have quality. :-)
"mlmscam" wrote: "The most amazing thing about all 3 of these individuals is that none of them ever played a single down in the NFL. So, QBO, even your own analysis taken by itself is faulty."
I have no idea about football and the various terminologies. I just did a search on all three of them. Heres what I found,
1. Vince Lombardi played football. (NFL is football and not just the superbowl or whatever). See his website www.vincelombardi.com
2. John Madden ALSO played football. See the website sports.espn.go.com/nfl/madden/story?page=bio
3. Bill Walsh. Wow, guess what, he too had played football.
I guess that qualifies them to become coaches and coach others and probably learn more and coach better.
QBO:
Go check your facts again. None of these 3 individuals ever played in the NFL, which is PROFESSIONAL football.
John Madden & Vince Lombardi did play some football, but never higher than the division III collegiate level.
Bill Walsh never played football period. Unless he was involved in some kind of little league when he was a youngster.
Also, concerning the topic of the SA8 laundry detergent, neither CK or I ever questioned the quality on this particular product. I myself used to use SA8 and even found it to be slightly better than the average laundry detergent that could be bought off the shelves of any supermarket. All we're saying that it's cost is exhorbitant, especially to potential retail customers who are not looking to partake in the profit making of quixtar's mlm distribution scheme. Hence the VALUE (cost versus quality) on this particular product is quite low.
mlmscam:
First off, I don't know football. Second I don't care.
Now, this was the first blog that I ever commented on because I felt what was requested was genuine. Now I understand it is just to provoke more trash. Now, I am going to let you guys ramble about anything you want and then I shall go and build a better business. A QBO shutdown.
QBO:
First off, if you don't care about football, then you shouldn't have commented on my NFL analogy in the first place.
Secondly, can you please point out to me where any of the quixtar critics on this thread were talking unwarranted "trash"?
Lastly, I would like to wish you the best of luck with your "business powered by quixtar"........you'll need it.
"A QBO shutdown"
Hey, I like that even better than QRush's "QRush over and out"!
Evan wrote:
"I've heard Diamonds and Emeralds try to get out the slump they are in with their current organization. They try to do the same thing they did in the past, not realizing that what is needed is a fresh new approach. Perhaps listening to critics, as opposed to themselves, would help them better in achieving more success with the organization."
Evan,
And what an array of critics there are!
From what I've seen, there are industry critics (those inside the MLM industry that are successful that critique the industry); there are IBOs from every level in their own organization that have issues; there are prospects that have critical things to say; there are online critics.
Given the vast array of critics and given only 24 hours a day, who would you listen to first and give credence to? This is where I would argue that experience does count.
BTW, I had asked how I could go about finding an upline that had honesty, integrity and did a good business in another comment section. I didn't find your answer. I wasn't asking a rhetorical question. I was hoping you'd tell more more info. on this. If you answered this somewhere else, please redirect me to that place. Thanks.
Sharon wrote:
"Qblog, perhaps you could create a mini-environment within the blog where a pre-selected group of thoughtful pros and cons could debate without the discussion being hijacked by a few rabble rousers?"
Sharon, great comment! (the entire comment, not just this piece)
That is something that I've been trying to say in various ways here.
In my experience, the participants in a blog or forum is generally a reflection of the blogger or forum owner. Because the blogger or owner posts the original post, people will either be attracted or repelled by the post. Although there are outliers, generally, the tone and style of the participants often reflects that of the blogger/owner.
Ambivalent
mlmscam: "Secondly, can you please point out to me where any of the quixtar critics on this thread were talking unwarranted "trash"?"
Here is some for you...
by "Cliff" : Roust those doggies
by "shannon": I would be greeted by a sacker at the front door
by "imran aziz": Can I criticize president if I've never been in the office?
by you scammer:
It seems like QBO is just your typical brainwashed IBO who is looking for
Hey, I like that even better than QRush's "QRush over and out"!
Q-blog,
you could host a good talk program...
you opened up a hot topic here.Hats off!!
A QBO..do not run off like some of the other IBO's...if you do not know what your prospects are reading or facing, how are you going to be able to answer their concerns?
We get IBO's that come on here and say that it has changed etc, non "EVER" seem to want to look at any stats or anti- Q info sincerely.
I know why since I was there..it might be a bad analogy so forgive me for that, but its like a drinker or smoker or fat person not acknowledging certain facts that pertain to them. Its painful to have your hopes and dreams dashed by some harsh realities.
QBO;
First of all, just because an item costs more doesn't mean that it's quality. SA8 is fine. I like 'All" better (equally adequate job cleaning, smells better). SA8 stain remover is tops. Cost to value it's worth it because it removes stains that nothing else will (note: don't buy the spray, it puts some really noxious fumes in the air...get the liquid).
You say you have some retail clients. That's great. Truly, I believe that there is nothing wrong with this business IF you actually focus on retailing product outside of the system.
The problem is that it's cost prohibitive to the average buyer, making it difficult to turn a profit, and nearly impossible to earn a living wage. Let's face it, your 14 retail customers buying vitamins and SA8 aren't going to be paying your mortgage anytime soon. But, I suppose if you get enough of them and then (here's the key) teach ALL of your downline to RETAIL also, your individual team could become a positive cash-flow system.
Is it? Are you profitting enough from these retail sales to cover your own PV purchases and the tools? What's your NET income for the year (profit minus ALL business associated expenses)?
As to that first criterion, re: must have built the business to platinum or higher...that's funny. Do you see the false paradigm you have created? It's like saying that only those who have actually won the lottery are qualified to determine whether the lottery is a good retirement plan. By definition, you eliminate the nay-sayers.
One needn't have jumped off a bridge to know it's a bad idea.
Re: remarks made
Cliff - Oh come on QBO, lighten up a little here! Cliff is a great guy who was just trying to make a funny. How could you take that remark seriously? If anything, I should be upset at Cliff because he made me spit out my soda that I was drinking as soon as I read his "doggie" remark and burst out laughing.
Shannon - Her remark of "sacker" was just to describe a hypothetical person who had nothing at all to do with quixtar. How is that trash talking? "sacker" itself cannot even be construed as being a harmful word.
Imran - This is the most preposterous of your accusations. All Imran was doing here was making an analogy here of how ridiculous it would be if someone could not criticize the president of the United States, just because they themselves never held that office. Imran didn't even use any adjectives or call anybody any kind of name here.
Yours Truly - Okay, normally you would be making a valid point here. Unfortunately you took my remark out of context from the summation of my entire postings. If you noticed, I also indicated to you that I was once myself a brainwashed IBO. Hence I was only trying to point out that you are currently in a postion that many of us have gone through - where your critical thinking abilities have been compromised due to the cunning techniques used by the quixtar MOs to emotionally sabotage one's personality. I wasn't trying to attack or put you down in any way here.
If QBO isn't a football fan (his/her loss), then how about this example. Do you believe anyone could study enough to become an expert on the Civil War today, QBO? The reality of the situation is not a single person alive today could have experience the Civil War, and certainly there are no officers around. Yet, there are several people I have met and/or read whom I would call Civil War Experts. Without ever experiencing the Civil War, or in some cases, any war, they are still experts on the topic.
Now of course, Quixtar and the Civil War are completely different topics, but applying your logic (as I interpret it), QBO, nobody can be qualified to have an opinion on the Civil War because nobody around today experienced it! And our entire football discussion analogy, as with my Civil War analogy is attempting to poke holes in your logic, QBO, and show you that one doesn't necessarily need to be in the trenches to understand what is going on.
And to follow dmm,
If I have cancer, I'm certainly NOT going to search for an internest who has had cancer before to get treatment.
Again, I'll pose my question:
I think a better forum would be "What type of qualifications does an upline sponsor need to have before an IBO will join?"
It seems (from my limited experience) that people are willing to sign up without any prior business experience; nor do their uplines have any formal business training.
Again, I'll pose my question:
I think a better forum would be "What type of qualifications does an upline sponsor need to have before an IBO will join?"
It seems (from my limited experience) that people are willing to sign up without any prior business experience; nor do their uplines have any formal business training.
Again, I'll pose my question:
I think a better forum would be "What type of qualifications does an upline sponsor need to have before an IBO will join?"
It seems (from my limited experience) that people are willing to sign up without any prior business experience; nor do their uplines have any formal business training.
As a final follow-up to the credibility issue. I would also like to provide an example that offers a flip side to the situation. Magic Johnson, arguably one of the greatest offensive ball handlers to ever play professional basketball, and the catalyst behind the many great laker championship teams of the 1980's, totally bombed during his one brief stint at head coaching his own lakers team back during the '93-'94 NBA season. His coaching record was a lousy 5 Wins & 10 Losses before he finally quit in disgust over his inability to communicate with his own players.
Ambivalent,
To answer your question :
"Given the vast array of critics and given only 24 hours a day, who would you listen to first and give credence to? This is where I would argue that experience does count"
I would find the underlying tone of the critics and find out what the main issues were (As if the diamond's don't already know) and address these issues in a manner that most benefited the new person, as they are the building blocks of a business like this.
I would then seek out the help of leading business experts who have an outside perspective of the business, to help deal with the issues.
eg) Tom Peters...organizational change
John Maxwell...leadership and training, etc.
This way, the issues from the field are brought up, and considered, and they are dealt with professionally by experts from all spheres of business. But lets be real here...there are only a few major issues, in my opinion:
a) tool system quality (are they really doing what diamonds say they should do for you?)
b) Income misrepresentation
c) High Cost of products
d) A horrible reputation
Fixing many of these can be done very easily, but are certain leaders willing to lose what they already have to make the business better for everone?
As for your question:
"BTW, I had asked how I could go about finding an upline that had honesty, integrity and did a good business in another comment section"
You are talking to the wrong Evan, here, but I will give you my answer.
Ask the prospective upline the right questions (especially considering you have many facts from sites such as these) and you'll just know:
Eg)
a) What do you really think about the tool system?
b) Are you willing to provide affordable, meaningful training for those who don't want to be involved in the current system"
c) Do you feel as though retailing and adhering to the spririt of the 10 client rule is important?
d) What exactly are you doing to help the newest IBO to make some money?
I hope this helps.
Evan wrote:
"You are talking to the wrong Evan, here, but I will give you my answer."
Oops, sorry, Evan. But thanks for the info.
This is getting confusing with all the different people with the same names. :)
Ambivalent
ex-dd wrote: "A QBO..do not run off like some of the other IBO's"...
I am not running off anywhere. I have work to do unlike certain other people who only criticize. (BTW, I didnt mean anybody here in this blog. This was provoked by my annoying collegue.). And I wrote that "shutdown" statement because I didn't want to follow that tangent there set by mlmscam.
CK wrote: "Is it? Are you profitting enough from these retail sales to cover your own PV purchases and the tools? What's your NET income for the year (profit minus ALL business associated expenses)?"
Your question itself states that you have no business sense. Forget all the analogy all Q people give (about amazon, other companies etc.), I will give you a testimony as a real witness.
Now to the story. I work for a startup software company where there are less than 10 people. This company started 3 years ago. The CEO of the company started it with his blood and sweat. He lives in a 5M$ home and he had it fully paid off on mortgages. Now, He took out loans after loans and is almost maxed out in his credit too. The company has had 1 client so far. 3 more clients are in the pipeline. And he is trying to sell this crazy. Flying in and out and meeting with people and throwing sales presentations etc.
Now to answer CK's questions in that term, After 3 yrs in business the net on the P/L sheet is -$2 Million. (Note the negative sign there. Its a loss...). Now, can you go and tell the company people that "hey this doesn't work, I started a company which went down the tube and so will yours...".
mlmscam wrote: "Cliff - Oh come on QBO, lighten up a little here!"
Now, the country I am from, if you are call somebody a dog, you will be shot. :-) (just kidding.)
mlmscam wrote: "Hence I was only trying to point out that you are currently in a postion that many of us have gone through - where your critical thinking abilities have been compromised due to the cunning techniques used by the quixtar MOs to emotionally sabotage one's personality. "
Now, if I support the business (including the MOs) then I am brainwashed, If I don't then I am good. Hence, you have already made up your mind one way or another and not willing to "listen to" another's view point that "it could be right".
mlmscam wrote: "I wasn't trying to attack or put you down in any way here"
I know that mlmscam, but I felt you were saying all Q IBOs are brainwashed (correct me if I am wrong.) and that is trash, you don't know even half of them. You got to be more specific and tell which all diamonds are brainwashing people.
dmm wrote: "Do you believe anyone could study enough to become an expert on the Civil War today, QBO?"
There is a difference between experiencing the war and knowing about that war. That is what I was pointing at.
dmm wrote: "but applying your logic (as I interpret it), QBO, nobody can be qualified to have an opinion on the Civil War because nobody around today experienced it!"
Now, dmm, you are twisting this out of context. I didn't say nobody can have an opinion. I said I wouldn't listen to the criticism of people who just have an opinion and who haven't experienced it.
imanewme wrote:"If I have cancer, I'm certainly NOT going to search for an internest who has had cancer before to get treatment. "
Again, twisted out of context. Now, QBlog was not asking if you will go searching for people who have cancer, QBlog is asking if you will listen to people who have tried a treatment at a particular hospital or those who didnt even go to that hospital and are criticizing about the hospital. These two are two different issues.
And as always, every rule has its exception. People stop twisting it out of context. An analogy for "out-of-contexters"... Only a bird can fly. But the chicken cannot fly. So is chicken a bird???. If that didn't get you, then I guess its high level English.
Now on another note, Evan, posed a couple of really good questions. Why I say good is because I tell all the people that I show this opportunity to, about these things.
Q1. Tool system: I belive the tool system is to bring stability to the organization. If the business is not built with the system, the business has not stability guarantee. I mention that if they do not want to get the tools from the business, I recommend books that are already available in B&N that they can either go read or buy and read.
Q2. Profitability: I make sure that I host some beauty sessions and health sessions to retail products, and when we expose the opportunity to their friends/relatives and if they are not interested in building a biz, then I talk about retailing to them and being a customer. Current success rate is 20% as clients and 20% as IBOs. i.e., Out of 10 people we expose the biz to, 2 become clients and 2 become IBOs.
Q3. High Cost of Products: We do cost comparision. (Now don't ask me to hand over everything to "whoever" wants, I will not as you are not my client/member/IBO).
Q4. Income misrepresentation: I show them Q income of $150K and tools income of $100K.
Q5. Reputation: Reputation of microsoft, intel, oracle, AT&T, republican party, even the middle east politics is not that great (if not bad), and that doesn't stop them from growing. People always have something good and something bad to say about reputation. Hell, my reputation is not that great with the next door kid (4 yr old) cuz he doesn't like the way I look (not look at him, but my looks).
Surprisingly, I am not alone, my upline diamond's entire organization is doing the same. And you know what, he already has 2 diamonds, 3 emeralds, 4 Q12s, and 14 platinums in his organization. That sure sounds like illegal, huh!!??
Sorry for the long post previously. I didn't see it until I posted. My appologies. :)
Just looked up "Critic" in the dictionary.com. Following are the meanings given.
1. One who forms and expresses judgments of the merits, faults, value, or truth of a matter.
2. One who specializes especially professionally in the evaluation and appreciation of literary or artistic works: a film critic; a dance critic.
3. One who tends to make harsh or carping judgments; a faultfinder
Ok, now I would listen to 1 (in terms of Q) and see how his/her criticism can help me in my biz. I wouldn't need to listen to 2 as it is out of context. Now, 3 is where I strongly stay away from.
CK wrote: "Is it? Are you profitting enough from these retail sales to cover your own PV purchases and the tools? What's your NET income for the year (profit minus ALL business associated expenses)?"
A QBO wrote:
Your question itself states that you have no business sense. Forget all the analogy all Q people give (about amazon, other companies etc.), I will give you a testimony as a real witness.
Now to the story. I work for a startup software company where there are less than 10 people. This company started 3 years ago. The CEO of the company started it with his blood and sweat. He lives in a 5M$ home and he had it fully paid off on mortgages. Now, He took out loans after loans and is almost maxed out in his credit too. The company has had 1 client so far. 3 more clients are in the pipeline. And he is trying to sell this crazy. Flying in and out and meeting with people and throwing sales presentations etc.
Now to answer CK's questions in that term, After 3 yrs in business the net on the P/L sheet is -$2 Million. (Note the negative sign there. Its a loss...). Now, can you go and tell the company people that "hey this doesn't work, I started a company which went down the tube and so will yours...".
Let's see, I have no business sense because I believe that in a free-market economy, profit = (income - expenses), but you are going to answer my question regarding your own profitbility by posting an analogy to a business owner, which has nothing to do with anything.
You also earlier criticised other's for 'trash talking', but condesendingly tell me I have no business sense because I boiled down profit to it's simplest (and ACCURATE) terms.
If you can't support your position with the facts, answer with condescension instead.
QBO, it's too bad you're not willing to share your price list. What about giving a few of us your password to your site so we can check for ourselves. If most of the products are cheaper after shipping at the retail cost, I'd be willing to buy from you.
It's good you show that some of the income is made off tools. Although diamonds themselves in several lawsuits have stated on the record in court that the majority of their income was made from tools, not 2/5 of it.
As far as reputations go, some people may not like microsoft, but it usually won't stop people from using their products, because it is a good product, and the price is not out of reach to the masses. And most people aren't approached in malls by strangers asking if they'd like to be involved with an excellent software package.
Your upline's diamonds existed before Quixtar, because as far as I know, there have only been Amway diamonds, not Quixtar diamonds who were never involved in Amway.
So how about that password? Would anyone else be willing to buy from QBO if he can give you a better deal?
QBO wrote:
"Now, if I support the business (including the MOs) then I am brainwashed, If I don't then I am good. Hence, you have already made up your mind one way or another and not willing to "listen to" another's view point that "it could be right"."
That's because you haven't expressed any of your viewpoints yet re: the quixtar MOs. Once you do then I can respond to them.
"I know that mlmscam, but I felt you were saying all Q IBOs are brainwashed (correct me if I am wrong.) and that is trash, you don't know even half of them. You got to be more specific and tell which all diamonds are brainwashing people."
I was only illustrating the gist of the matter re: the quixtar MOs. Why do I have to name certain individuals?
Anybody who has been following the news the last year knows how dangerous it is for any American to be walking around any part of war torn Iraq. Would you like me to specifically name all of the terrorists over there who are out to slaughter us?
"CK wrote: "Is it? Are you profitting enough from these retail sales to cover your own PV purchases and the tools? What's your NET income for the year (profit minus ALL business associated expenses)?"
Your question itself states that you have no business sense. Forget all the analogy all Q people give (about amazon, other companies etc.), I will give you a testimony as a real witness.
Now to the story. I work for a startup software company where there are less than 10 people. This company started 3 years ago. The CEO of the company started it with his blood and sweat. He lives in a 5M$ home and he had it fully paid off on mortgages. Now, He took out loans after loans and is almost maxed out in his credit too. The company has had 1 client so far. 3 more clients are in the pipeline. And he is trying to sell this crazy. Flying in and out and meeting with people and throwing sales presentations etc.
Now to answer CK's questions in that term, After 3 yrs in business the net on the P/L sheet is -$2 Million. (Note the negative sign there. Its a loss...). Now, can you go and tell the company people that "hey this doesn't work, I started a company which went down the tube and so will yours..."."
???? The old "the facts don't matter" MO phrase which is rearing it's ugly head again.
The fallacy here QBO is that you are giving one specific example of an individual who failed at building a company. In quixtar there have been millions of hard working people who failed at that business. Doesn't that want to tell you something? In order for your example to be valid, you need to give us the statistics on the numbers of people who have attempted to start up and build a software company over the last 30+ years, from when computers first started becoming mainstream in both the home and business environments.
"dmm wrote: "Do you believe anyone could study enough to become an expert on the Civil War today, QBO?"
There is a difference between experiencing the war and knowing about that war. That is what I was pointing at."
Yes you are correct QBO, but what does that difference really entail? All you are saying is that the soldiers who fought during the civil war knew first hand the terror and wrought emotions of being involved in it. They would obviously have even known more about the daily combat tactics of fighting the enemy face to face than any war historian would. However, that does not make them any more of an expert on that war than those who have intricately studied it and formed their own opinions on it, based upon the solid facts & evidence that they uncovered and which were available to them.
Let's put it this way QBO, let's take the construction of a major asset such as an automobile or a large office building. In order to manufacture those items, many common laborers are needed to put together each separate component of them until the whole project is completed. Are you going to now tell me that the combined knowledge of the low skilled workers on those projects is greater than that of the engineers who designed those items? Think about it.
"dmm wrote: "but applying your logic (as I interpret it), QBO, nobody can be qualified to have an opinion on the Civil War because nobody around today experienced it!"
Now, dmm, you are twisting this out of context. I didn't say nobody can have an opinion. I said I wouldn't listen to the criticism of people who just have an opinion and who haven't experienced it."
So what you're saying here QBO is that any civil war historian who writes about that war is not to be taken seriously or listened to, being that they weren't there; no matter how valid & concrete their sources of evidence are.
What do you think of Robert Kiyosaki of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" fame?
QBO,
I understand your statements about critics, since I was taught those lines also, as well as taught them, but what is the difference between a critic and a consultant?
Amquix has the same number of distributors today as it did in the 70's
The volume has been near the same in the last 10 years, with it dipping many times.
The success rate on achieving diamond, as figured out by some professor off Larsens site is .0017% or so Versus 1% of the population are millionaires.
Based on that stat, it hurts your chance of becoming a millionaire if you get in Quixtar.
I can never understand what the difference is between a critic and a consultant...
Do you know?
When you quit, will you become a critic as I have?
If you go all hell bent staying up late away from your family, i feel sorry for you.
I hope you do a biz analyzation of your profits and time at the end of a year and make an educated choice.
ex-dd says "Based on that stat, it hurts your chance of becoming a millionaire if you get in Quixtar."
Doing what you are currently doing, what are your chances of becoming a millionaire?
"Just looked up "Critic" in the dictionary.com. Following are the meanings given.
1. One who forms and expresses judgments of the merits, faults, value, or truth of a matter.
2. One who specializes especially professionally in the evaluation and appreciation of literary or artistic works: a film critic; a dance critic.
3. One who tends to make harsh or carping judgments; a faultfinder
Ok, now I would listen to 1 (in terms of Q) and see how his/her criticism can help me in my biz. I wouldn't need to listen to 2 as it is out of context. Now, 3 is where I strongly stay away from."
So how would you distinguish a "3" from a "1" or a "2?" I don't see any particular qualifications in the definition.
PW
Chris: "Doing what you are currently doing, what are your chances of becoming a millionaire?"
Ooh! Ooh! I want to answer this one! I love having this question being posed to me under the assumption that everyone who works a J-O-B is a broke loser.
My wife and I contributed $6000 (the max) to our Roth IRAs this year. I contributed $9000 to my 401(k) this year. My wife is a teacher and we are buying 5 years toward her service credits, which will allow her to retire with full benefits after 25 years instead of 30. That's $2600 this year. It doesn't show up as a cash balance, but it definitely has value.
When I punch numbers into Excel taking into account my current balances and future contributions, I see that I will be millionaire in...25 years! That's assuming 7% growth in my portfolio, which is a realistic number over the next 25 years based on stock valuations right now.
But you asked what the "chances" were, so I will run the numbers again using the worst historical return for a 25-year period in the stock market, which is about 4% annual growth. Now I have to wait 30 years to become a millionaire. Dang. But I'm still not fighting the pigeons for food.
So anyway, not everyone who works a J-O-B will be in the rat race for 40 years and then eat dog food in retirement because they have only a social security check for income. It's not a 2-5 year plan, but utilizing that plan gives me a 100% chance of becoming a millionaire.
So, QBO, if you had to find out information about the Civil War, is there anyone you could talk to about it since nobody alive today has any first hand experience? Does the knowledge that historians have offer any value to you because all of their knowledge is second or third hand? Can anyone in any subject ever become an expert and have a valid opinion with no first hand experience?
Personally, I think you are really limiting yourself if you believe people with only first hand experience have valid opinions. Certainly first hand experience counts for something, but it should not count for everything.
By the way, QBO, where did you get the $100,000 tool number for diamonds? I suggest you read some of the lawsuits on MLMSurvivor.com and look at the claims. Most of these suits are emeralds or above suing diamonds over tool money (you should believe them because they have reached platinum or higher), and most claim tool money to be 80% or higher of a diamond's income.
Hello Chris,
I will be a millionaire in about 10 years based on my projections. I have started 3 traditional business's plus the 12 years in amquix. THe last biz a franchised sign shop i lost alot of money due to bad partnership.
But I am on the rebound, I have listened to many millionaires and financial advisors.
So I choose to participate in the "world" system and use my faith in GOD..
Waymee & Ex-DD,
Good answers. I love hearing from people who have a game plan to get them where they want to be. It's not every one's goal to become a millionaire, but it's still a very respectable goal, and I hope that you will both be disciplined to get there.
We have more in common that you might think. I too have stock market investments and I currently own my own business outside of Quixtar. My game plan to achieve my goals has a mix of investing, real estate, and business ownership. In the business ownership category I have my own independent business powered by Quixtar.
My chances for success in Quixtar are 100%, just like your chances of becoming a millionaire through disciplined investing over a number of years, or through traditional business ownership.
Through a disciplined and coordinated effort in my businesses and investments, I have a solid game plan to reach the $10 million annual income mark in less than 10 years.
Waymee, I never posed that question under any assumptions that everyone who has a job is a broke loser. I would never think that, say that, or believe that. My question was asked in response to a statement that Ex-DD made, and it was asked genuinely.
"Doing what you are currently doing, what are your chances of becoming a millionaire?"
That is a very fair question. Thank you for the answers. Utilizing your logic Waymee, a Quixtar IBO also has 100% chances of becoming a diamond if they set up a game plan to get there and follow it.
And using your logic Ex-DD a Quixtar IBO also has the same chances of becoming a millionaire.
So Ex-DD, it's either "Quixtar's system" or the "World's system" huh? So if I buy into and start learning from a Real Estate system, Franchise system, Investing system, or Business Ownership system, are those systems all outside of this so-called "World system".
ABO and Chris, would either one of you be willing to provide me access to your pricing systems? All this talk about millionaireisms is great, but it is my belief that you have to have a product that is competitive and desired by the masses in order for it to sell.
The greatest trouble I had with Amway/Quixtar is that the prices were not competitive, thus troublesome to move.
I don't want to get into the AMO thing, I just want to see that the products and prices are competitive. Chris you stated in an earlier post that this was the case. Great! I just want to see for myself that at retail, and after shipping costs, this is the case. If it is how you say, then you've just got yourself a new customer, and if its really that good, I will sign up in your group.
I'm not kidding. I will. But I am quite sure that the prices are not that good, nor would it be more cost efficient to do so, and that's why I don't think either of you will share your password.
Prove me wrong.
Rocket, if you want to do price comparisons at retail, just visit the Quixtar site. You can view retail product costs without even registering.
I am not here to recruit and it would go against what I stand for to use this board as a means to recruit new clients, members or IBO's, so I would recommend that you just call Quixtar if you are interested and they will register you with a Platinum in your area.
As far your actual question as to price comparisons and what products are good, there is a good discussion about this on one of QBlog’s other posts at this link here:
http://tech-geeks.org/tiny.php?url=1259
In a nutshell, I will give you a basic example of cost comparison using the example of Partner Stores, which has not yet been talked about on the other post. In this example let’s say you want a product from Circuit City.
As an Average Customer.
1) Go to a Circuit City Store, find the product, buy it, and drive home.
2) Go to CircuitCity.com and buy the same product at the same price and have it delivered to your home, or pick it up at the store.
As a Quixtar Member.
1) Go to Quixtar.com then CircuitCity.com and buy the same product at the same price and have it delivered to your home, or pick it up at the store. Get Q-Credits which are redeemable for more products.
As a Quixtar IBO.
1) Go to Quixtar.com then CircuitCity.com and buy the same product at the same price and have it delivered to your home, or pick it up at the store. Get PV/BV which you get paid a percentage on, and receive a check in the mail or directly deposited into your account.
Plus, as an IBO you can advertise to other people and show them how they can shop this way as clients, members and IBO’s and you will receive a residual on the shopping that results from your advertising.
Then, if you become very successful as an IBO, there are increasing opportunities for income including; speaking, training, creating and selling materials, promoting events, etc. You might also decide to further leverage your IBO-based income through other ventures including Real Estate, Stocks, Businesses, etc.
Quixtar also has a Store for More section which is like a department store online. These prices are reasonable and competitive. You can buy everything from a pair of jeans to a refrigerator.
Then there are Quixtar’s Private Branded products. Many of these products are higher quality and focused on cost per use. Many of these products are also brands that an individual may not have heard of because there is no nationwide advertising on the brand names. Some of these products are more expensive, some are less expensive, and some are generally competitively priced. So usually a customer will find the value and quality as the determining factor in these purchases.
As for retailing products, IBO’s like myself will often focus on specific products to promote and sample, and then once a customer relationship is established, they can be introduced to the other products that they can get through Quixtar as well as services like Ditto Delivery.
There are some really easy to promote items like XS Energy Drinks, Nine To Five and Kahve Coffee, and the Gift Incentive Albums just to name a few. These products are priced very well and are easy to sell at retail cost, as well as easy to carry samples with you around town, whereas carrying around laundry detergent wouldn’t work as well.
I hope that this information has been helpful to you and if you want to discuss this further, then visit the link in my comments above.
Chris,
When I used the term "world system" v.s. Quixtar i was repeating what Bill Britt/All big pins used to preach to us that the Quixtar system was better than the world system...It is not.
There are way higher percentages of successful franchise owners, other inidvidual biz owners.
I am stating here that if you apply all the time that is applied to quixtar and its Motivational system, to a traditional buisiness that the percentage of success in the traditional buisiness will be way way more than that of Quixtar.
You can argue the low start up cost of Quixtar..
I can point you to 1000 business's you can start for $1000 or less.
You can argue about a proven system..
I can pint you to more successful systems
(the educational system in Quixtar is a joke) the reason is because it produces less than 1% people that have a profit to show on their tax returns.
I can set up a site just like Quixtar's partner site by going to an affiliate marketing site , then pick and choose the stores and have my own website.
I can then market my website and when someone clicks the link and buys something..I get a commsiion check at the end of the month. In fact I can link to Walmart, Target, Staples etc..and do this.
I then can toot my horn and say that these stores are my partners, Just like I was taught in Quixtar.
So your chance of success is not 100%..You have to rely on others, I believe you believe you can do it 100%, but you would have a greater chance if that energy was directed in a more viable way.
MY x-Triple Diamond used to say he wished it cost $10,000 to get into Amway/Quixtar.Why don't they just do that.Make all new people buy tapes,books ,tickets to meetings etcc... up front then know one can be surprised.They wouldn't get into it if they weren't serious or didn't have the money.They said that but we all know they didn't mean it because the business would dissapear.
Chris, I tried to check out some prices and this is what I got when I started clicking:
"Often, people who come to Quixtar.com have been referred by an Independent Business Owner (IBO) affiliated with Quixtar. If you were referred to Quixtar by an IBO, enter their IBO number and complete the form."
I don't believe the prices are better. Not for a second. Otherwise it would be all over everywhere, and even people that have quit trying to recruit others would stay active to save money.
But I would like to see the prices, just the same. You can click on Rocket to give me your password and I won't share it with anyone else, if that's what you're concerned about.
I just don't understand the secrecy. I can't even confirm what you tell me about the partner store prices being the same as if I buy it online.
Not very good promotion if you can't let others see your prices, which is the basics of what you are trying to accomplish, moving product.........No?
Never mind Chris. I had a couple of other people contact me and provide me with the information I require.
One was just concerned with making sure I got the info, and made it clear that this is what he/she was all about.
Another one sent me a price list.
Thanks to both of you, you know who you are. Interestingly enough, they seemed genuinely concerned with helping me, and one even pointed out that he/she felt that that most of the products were overpriced.
I wish I dealt with Quixtar folks like that more often.
Rocket:
I'll give you some pricing. My wife's an IBO so I can get past the roadblock you refer to.
SA8 with Bioquest: 9.9 Lbs. super concentrated laundry detergent
Retail: $34.10
IBO price: 28.10
Dish Drops: 50 oz. automatic dishwashing detergent
Retail: $10.50
IBO price: $9.00
Glister multi-action toothpaste: 6.75 oz
Retail: $4.70
IBO price: $4.10
Body Series antibacterial hand soap: 8.45 oz.
Retail: $5.75
IBO price: $5.05
Let me know if this is a good start. I personally can't stand the dish soap. Every time I drink a glass of water I can smell the stuff. The toothpaste is absolutely awful (I tried it once and immediately switched back to Crest).
Hope this helps.
Rocket,
Please don't have a sour taste in your mouth because I didn't provide you with my personal password when you asked me for it. I instantly responded to you by telling you that you could view the prices without a password, so I was quick to lead you to a source where you could get your answers.
With my password you would be able to log into my line of sponsorship, make changes, see what volume everyone in my organization is at, transfer money in and out of my account, as well as transfer volume and use the credit cards I have saved on file. Why would I give you password access to be able to do all of that.
I just got done visiting the Quixtar.com site, without logging in, and I had no problem viewing the products at retail cost.
The only time there is a problem is when you log into the partner stores area. Then they prompt you to register so that they can track that.
The partner stores are the same as if you went there directly, except for a few cases where the partner store has put together a seperate site for us. But even then, the prices are the same, but there might be a few less products.
For example: Shop.com is a partner store that has a health and beauty section where they sell products that compete directly with Quixtar's Private Branded products, so when they link to Shop.com it goes to a mirror site that offers everything but the competing products. Which makes sense.
Hopefully you are able to do your research and decide if you want to purchase some products or not.
BTW: Today I registered a new member on ditto delivery for XS energy drink. I had sampled some to him and he brought it back to his Atkins group he is part of, and he wanted to buy a few cases for his next meeting. He said the group loved it and the prices were great! The topic of arguing prices on here is so funny because whenever I show potential customers the prices, they always think they are fair.
ex-dd wrote: "You can argue the low start up cost of Quixtar.. I can point you to 1000 business's you can start for $1000 or less.
You can argue about a proven system.. I can pint you to more successful systems"
Can you please mention a few businesses that you know of that have comparable start-up and monthly overhead costs, as well as potential for a 6 figure income, as well as what percentage of those business owners make a 6 figure net income with that business, and please let me know about the more "successful systems" that they offer. Thanks.
The start-up costs for my business were around $300. My annual overhead initially was around $4000/yr, and now it is running around $6000/yr because my business is bigger and I travel more.
I was profitable starting the month after I ordered my first product, and have been profitable since.
I will let you know that not everyone in my organization is profitable, but I can honestly say that those who are putting in even a little more than the minimum effort are all profitable or at least breaking even. So the ones who are not profitable know why they are not profitable.
I have even been consulting with some individuals in my organization to start keeping P&L statements for their business so that they can be more frugal with their current investments and create more income to pay for future investments.
Many of them have already been keeping these records and this is because I have an organization that has many traditional business owners that are motivated for time freedom, because they are time-strapped from their businesses. They are very educated individuals that understand the business plan, and it makes sense to them. Keeping income statements was natural to them.
Cris,
I already mentioned one..the website with affiliate marketing links.
The others.to mention a few, and you are welcome to visit your bookstore and find several books titles vary, but say the the effect..100 or 1000 business's to start under either $100 or 500, or 1000.
I have a friend who started a window cleaning biz that nets $35,000 a month.He started for $150.(10 YEARS IN BIZ)
I know of a gut who started a dog poop removal biz for $100 and makes over 100k a year.4-5 years in biz
By the way your expenses are $6000 a year, that means according to your statement that you made a profit your first month, you should have made over at least $6001...now the question what was the net profit, and how many hours to get there?
include meetings,niteowls, driving to distance groups, showing the plan, ets.
The SBA says that 80% of business's fail in the first 3 years, 99.9% of Quixtar biz never make it.
To back that figure up, go to Amquixinfo.com and look at all the pin winners then figure the percentage of distributors..now when I was in they claimed 2 million.
So 20% Success rate in the traditional biz is way better than the less than 1% in Quixtar.
Not to mention, to the best of my knowledge, NO ONE HAS GONE DIAMOND SINCE ENROLLING AFTER SEPTEMBER 1999.
Mailorder people start for under $500 and alot of them make 6 figures.
the list goes on
chris wrote:
"The start-up costs for my business were around $300. My annual overhead initially was around $4000/yr, and now it is running around $6000/yr because my business is bigger and I travel more.
I was profitable starting the month after I ordered my first product, and have been profitable since."
This would have meant that you made a commission of over $300 the first month to cover start-up costs. Or are you amortizing the start-up costs over the year? If you amortize the annual overhead costs as well, that means you would have made over $358.33 that first month. ($4300/12)
I haven't seen this happen before. Please explain.
Ambivalent
Don't worry Chris. No sour taste here. There have been a few people other than yourself that were more than accomodating. I've done a few price checks, and re-affirmed to myself that the prices are NOT competitive especially when you factor in shipping costs. Your posts are misleading, intentional or otherwise.
I'm glad you're able to retail, but I will say, there is no way of verifying what you say to be true. However, I have seen the facts of the matter (prices) and I feel that if I as a potential had to make a decision based on what is obvious, this would not be for me. Because the prices are not competitive.
Do you have a link showing your pin level, or the announcement of the last time you did cross stage as anything?
ex-dd,
Thanks for mentioning some businesses. That sets you apart from many critics that are just all talk. I know of a few more that are pretty lucrative that are fairly inexpensive to get into. I don't only own my one independent business powered by Quixtar, but I also run another business, and my business does marketing and advertising for many large companies.
I am very familiar with affiliate marketing, and I even mentioned it in another post here on this site. When I show the business plan to tech-savvy individuals, I often mention the similarities to affiliate marketing, and they understand even more.
Quixtar, in a way, is sort of like a large affiliate program based online mall that is more focused on building their community based on word of mouth and person to person interaction rather than search engine optimization and pay per click advertising.
I have a friend who is very successful in affiliate marketing (5 figure income, on track for a 6 figure income) and we have talked about Quixtar vs. doing your own affiliate marketing and have had some interesting discussions.
One of the benefits I like about affiliate marketing is that you don't have to have interaction with your customers. They just click through your link, order things and then you get a check. If you are good at organic search engine optimization, like my friend, then you can have a very, very low overhead and do the marketing yourself and become very successful.
If you don't know what you are doing, then you need to have a budget for advertising that you are willing to put out, and it can be a very risky investment. (But remember that high risk often means high returns). I met a guy who is an "affiliate marketing guru" and he told me about how he lost over $40,000 using Google Adwords and Overture to get visitors to his eBay affiliate links. The conversion rates just were not high enough for him to make a profit and after a while he decided to pull out and cut his losses.
The funny thing is, that the loss motivated him to learn how to market the pages himself, and now he has almost made back that money, and he will be very profitable soon. So my point is that if you don't have the skill of organic search engine optimization, you either need to invest a bunch of time up front to learn it, or you need to invest money up front and take a chance on advertising, which for some works really well.
BTW: I have been studying search engine marketing, and QBlog doesn't do too bad himself. It is possible to learn the skill, but even then, there is so much competition that it is still tough, and if your whole business is based off of Google and Yahoo listings, what if one day your listings completely drop? This has happened to many sites before, so there is still great risk.
Based on my knowledge of affiliate marketing, I would easily guess that the average monthly income for affiliate marketers is well below the average income for IBO's. And I doubt that the success rate is that good either. It would be fun to get some stats on that if anybody has them.
The problem with affiliate marketing is "loyalty". When someone shops through my friends affiliate program links, they shop one time, he gets paid, end of deal. There is no loyalty or continual residual from that person shopping. So he has to keep acquiring new customers because he has a problem retaining existing customers longer than one purchase.
Quixtar, on the other hand, does very well with customer loyalty because of the person to person interaction involved. If I set up a customer on ditto delivery, then every month that customer places an order, I continue to get paid. If I set up an IBO, then that IBO makes money on his/her own purchases and on their business volume, so that helps to create loyalty as well.
Quixtar also has IBO’s that have had success that are willing to help you get where they are. If a very successful affiliate marketer was willing to help someone new set up their own affiliate marketing business, and they didn’t ask for any money up-front for helping them, but only a percentage of their business down the road, then that would be a win-win situation, just like Quixtar. And if someone has that opportunity, then it might be wise to jump on it, because affiliate marketing is hot right now, and so is Quixtar.
But enough about affiliate marketing for now. That topic is big enough for QBlog to write about in a future post.
Ambivalent wrote: “This would have meant that you made a commission of over $300 the first month to cover start-up costs… I haven't seen this happen before. Please explain.”
To further explain the numbers I used in my comments below, you need to take into consideration that I was using “annual overhead” costs. Every month is not the same because some months there is a major function, and other months there are not, etc.
That being said, I was profitable early in my business because my overhead was low and my activity level and results were high. A new IBO can probably build their business early on with only $100-$200/mo in overhead.
There might be a few major events to attend, and then there might be some travel involved as well. But generally, for an IBO that is close to his upline support team, there are local events, and overhead is very low, so it is very easy to make a profit.
And that is not even counting the potential increase in tax returns because now the IBO has a business that allows for extra tax breaks which in many cases they can count as a loss, and that loss can roll over into their personal income so that they are taxed on a lower income, and so they can receive a larger tax return. I personally think it would be fair to count this increase in their tax return as a positive gain from their business.
BTW: Yes I did make over $300 the month after I ordered my first product, and that did cover my expenses. That income was based on my own shopping plus sales to clients and members, and I received a bonus on my IBO organization. I also showed the business plan 30 times that month, and was very active. Not every IBO needs to start with that kind of activity, but I was highly motivated at the time.
For the record, I didn’t receive my check from that work until the 18th of the next month, but that check did cover expenses for the previous month. And generally speaking, my P&L shows a profit after my out of pocket business expenses each year. Of course I could get creative with tax write-offs and claim a loss, but we are talking about “out of pocket” business expenses now aren’t we?
Rocket,
Sorry, no links pointing to any business info about my pin level or me going across stage for anything. For all you know I could just be an 11 year old kid who’s parents are in the business. I just overhear the tapes while sitting in the back of the car when my parents drop me off for 6th grade, and I think I know everything about the business.
chris wrote:
"BTW: Yes I did make over $300 the month after I ordered my first product, and that did cover my expenses."
That's impressive. Congrats.
Well, I'll admit Chris, I did have my suspicions.
Thanks for clearing that up
Good Luck to you.
This is the largest comment blog I have seen so far.
Now, the main point of this blog was to "challenge" Q advocates to "list" the qualifications required of a would-be critic of Q.
As far as I see it, I am the only one to have done so and everybody has digressed. (is that word right???).
Well, so much for my provocative statement :-).
Q IBO,
I gave my qualifications right when this post went up, right after you did.
What I would look for is not so much "qualifications", but instead a critic that...
1. Displays a professional attitude in their views.
2. Is willing to debate issues and admit when they are wrong.
This might sound simple, but QBlog wanted us to... "Be specific. Be honest. Be candid. Be as brief as possible."
I personally am willing to listen, and I am open minded, but I have not heard any convincing evidence as to why I should quit building my business, and so the Qritics have not converted me :)
BTW: I think that you totally have the right to set the level at Platinum and above for who you are willing to "listen to". There is nothing wrong with that.
I have a friend who started up a law firm, and he was only open-minded to take advice from succesful lawyers, and that's it.
He even gave me advice to not listen to the critics that are out there that will tell you that you won't succeed, but to find successful people who are where you want to be and listen to them.
I have also had a trusted friend relate critics to the story of Noah in the bible. Noah had critics, but he chose not to listen to them. He just got on with the job that needed to be done.
The critics on here can argue your opinion of who you would be willing to listen to, but you have the right to set any qualification of who you would listen to, and many successful people would agree with you on your choices.
That was my $0.02
QBO:
You have accomplished nothing, other than making your ridiculous assertion that one has to be a platinum direct in the quixtar business in order to be suitably qualified to critique that business (which is like asking Charles Manson what he thinks about the lifestyles of serial killers). As I recall, we were both debating this credibility issue when you didn't answer my last post on this topic. I'm still waiting for your response (to spot my last correspondence to you, go down 25 more postings from this one, to the one where I was asking you what you thought about Robert Kiyosacki of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" fame).
mlmscam,
I have read several of Robert Kiyosaki's books and I think there is great advice in his teaching and Rich Dad Poor Dad is a "must read" for someone who is an employee and thinking about starting up their own business.
Those are my thoughts on Robert Kiyosaki, although I know you weren't directing that question towards me.
Hey Chris:
Are you the moderator for mlmforums.com? Just wondering.
Hey Chris,
I would be willing to listen to a dead mine sweeper if he was still alive.
mlmscam wrote: "You have accomplished nothing, other than making your ridiculous assertion that one has to be a platinum direct in the quixtar business in order to be suitably qualified to critique that business (which is like asking Charles Manson what he thinks about the lifestyles of serial killers). "
First, I did not mention that anybody else should listen to my statements. Hence the requirement for "accomplishing something" through these comments does not apply. Second, I am not the one who is "trying" hard to accomplish something out here. You have not contributed anything to this blog except your rediculous ranting.
mlmscam wrote: "As I recall, we were both debating this credibility issue when you didn't answer my last post on this topic. "
You were arguing and I was debating :-).
mlmscam wrote: "I'm still waiting for your response (to spot my last correspondence to you, go down 25 more postings from this one, to the one where I was asking you what you thought about Robert Kiyosacki of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" fame)."
Others here might not look at your pot-hole but I do. Robert Kiyosawki is not an expert on war, but on making money. I would listen to him in terms of making money and not in terms of war.
My upline diamond is a genius in computers and that doesn't make him an expert in my field (its in software) and so I don't listen to him in terms of advice on my field, (if he ever does). In fact my upline emerald has called me up several time when he got stuck with some stuff in the computer. He is not an expert in that area, but I am.
Certain things I would like to clarify with you mlmscam. First, I didnt comment here to convince anybody and to "convert" anybody, but to give my opinion as to whom I (me, moi) would listen to. I never said anybody should follow or implement my opinion. So stop your rediculous "finger-pointing" and find some work to do.
chris wrote: "I gave my qualifications right when this post went up, right after you did."
Sorry about that chris, I didn't notice as there were so many comments within that same day. :-)
And I believe that you are the only other person in here credible enough that I will listen to (though I don't know your level). Even if you are not yet a platinum, I will make an exception to that rule. :-)
QBO wrote:
"And I believe that you are the only other person in here credible enough that I will listen to (though I don't know your level). Even if you are not yet a platinum, I will make an exception to that rule. :-)"
A classic case of the blind leading the blind.
For everybody else's information, the reason why I originally proposed my question on Robert Kiyosaki to QBO is because the quixtar masses look up to this individual like he was some type of God. Yet this man, as successful as he is, has never once worked at any type of mlm opportunity to acheive his mass fortunes. Of course, our 2 resident IBO braintrusts will never admit to that.
Porkchopjim said:
"Micronutrients and Phytonutrients.
Right.
"There is much more to it than ingredients and purity." - Such as the magic dust? Special blessing? Cool Flinstone characters?
My position stands as previously stated.
Garbage."
Evan says:
Here's a guy (Porkchopjim) who has, all of the sudden, become an expert in the area of nutrition and pharmaceuticals. Of course, he is....hence the name Porkchopjim.
Do you know what a phytonutrient is? Or a micronutrient for that matter? Exactly what do you think the FDA does, and what warrants a stamp of approval from them? (Here's the same organization that will put Twinkies to the test, and leave tobacco products untouched)
This post states:
"Many Quixtar Advocates allege that critics of the business lack the necessary qualifications to make critical comments. Yet those allegations are rarely followed up with any description of the missing qualifictions. Surely such a description exists, right?"
What qualifications does Porky have to warrant his claims about the vitamins, and be heard with any credibility?
Does Porky believe that all multivitamins bearing the FDA stamp of approval are equal in quality? (I bet he believes that all cars approved as street legal vehicles are the same...hence we should go into any showroom and purchase any car and expect the same type of mileage, longevity, comfort......afterall, the only things that make a car different are the colour of the fuzzy dice chosen to accessorize the car, and the style of bobbly head placed on the back dash of the car.)
Porker....do what you do best....racking your brain to come up with a post that tries to keep you one up on others. Your post (and mine too for that matter, lol) is needed to offset the respectful nature of people like Ray, Qblog, Ambivalent, Chris, Rocket, etc.
mlmscam wrote: "For everybody else's information, the reason why I originally proposed my question on Robert Kiyosaki to QBO is because the quixtar masses look up to this individual like he was some type of God. "
That is your perception. If RK was looked upon as God, then you would be the devil. Well, he is not and so you are not. At least I don't look upto him as God, but do use his credibility for building a multi-million $ biz and so is talking about Q as a credible business. I stated earlier (scroll down and check for yourself), that I would listen to somebody I respect for what they have done. What have you done "mlmscam" btw? any credibility I can listen to? (Now don't go about asking my credibility, you are the one requesting to be listened to, not me. I just stated who I would listen to).
mlmscam wrote: "Yet this man, as successful as he is, has never once worked at any type of mlm opportunity to acheive his mass fortunes."
Did you read his book "The Business School"? I guess not. Just pick it up and
Yeehaw QBlog, bring 'em on.
Roust those doggies!! :-)
Bring out them big guns of logic and reasoned discourse.
Cliff ;-)
Posted by: Clifford | September 27, 2004 10:34 PM