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August 16, 2004
Monday Reader Mail: 8
By QBlog in Reader Mail
Scott B. wrote me explaining why Quixtar isn't a "pyramid." I'm not sure I've ever said that Quixtar is a pyramid but I guess that's beside the point. Anyway, here's today's email. As always, my comments are in bold.
name: Scott B.My guess is that this last comment was a reference to my NOTICE on the Contact page where I discourage "idiots" from sending me email. I suppose I am an idiot because I actually DID send Scott a response. I haven't heard back from him but here's what I sent:
date: June 16, 2004message: I have a couple of comments for you, sir. DO you understand Quixtar cannot be a "pyramid"? A pyramid says the "up-line" will always make more than you. Maybe you did not grow enough (respectively speaking) to fully understand that your downline can make more than you. It's called structure. I can tell you about that later. Also, where you work, I am assuming you have to work, you are not rewarded for the amount of work you do, unless you are like many quiters in the business, who are naturally lazy and do not have work ethics anyway.
I tell you what, I want you to take this "bathroom wall writing" off the net and let people enjoy their life in a business where they find peace of mind.
How did you get to this Web page? I bet you either clicked a link or typed in a Web address. Nobody forced anybody to read my blog.
Even if I never made a dime more, I still love the people I associate with. They are people of character, dignity, people with morals and true friends and NO, not everyone will make it to the diamond level, but that is THEIR decision. Look at Larry Winters. 5 whole years before anything!!! happened and now he is living a 7 figure income lifestyle.
Good for Larry.
Amway, was an unbelievable company. I was never associated with them. In fact, I never heard of them until 2002.WHAT?!? Never heard of Amway? C'mon, you expect me to believe that? Ok, I guess it's possible if you're young. Still, it's hard to believe.
But I have done research, and they were EXTREMELY successful.
Still are. Guess which company accounts for the bulk (around 75% or more) of Alticor's revenues. It ain't Quixtar.
Forgive me, that is if you are making more than 1.2 billion this year, but I have a strong feeling you're not.
It's unfortunate that there are quiters, like yourself, that try to pull everyone else's dream down just because you don't have the "gut's" to keep your own dream alive.
If you're a complete idiot, don't bother sending a message. Or if you do send one, I'll know you're still a complete idiot.
Have a nice day.
Scott,I really try to avoid sounding like a smartass but I fear that I fail at that more than I succeed. Oh well. At least I try.Are you for real? This is a joke right? If so, you�re pretty funny. I like your style. If not then, well, you got me. I�m a quitter. Guilty as charged. Don�t let me stand in the way of your 7 figure income. I�m just a stupid Web person with a dumb Web site. My idiotic ramblings couldn�t possibly affect you or your efforts in Quixtar. The Web is just one giant bathroom wall, you sure got that right. Isn't Quixtar on the Web? Oh, well nevermind.
QBlog
Comments
Here is what the "bathroom walls" at the Federal Trade Commission says a Pyramid scheme is:
Definition from FTC vs. Equinox April 2000, is the same as FTC vs. Trek Alliance June, 2003
"Pyramid scheme" means a sales scheme, Ponzi scheme, chain marketing scheme, or other marketing plan or program in which participants pay money or valuable consideration to the company in return for which they receive:
the right to sell a product or service; and
the right to receive in return for recruiting other participants into the program rewards which are unrelated to sale of products or services to ultimate users.
For the purposes of this definition, "sale of products or services to ultimate users" does not include sales to other participants or recruits in the multi-level marketing program or to participants' own accounts.
Notice how the other "scott's" definition of "A pyramid says the "up-line" will always make more than you. " is not even close.
scott b.
If you ever get the urge to take a "virtual leak/dump", I might suggest the following facilities:
http://www.amquix.info/amway_hall_of_shame.html
or how about this one:
http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/argument/index.html
"It's unfortunate that there are quiters, like yourself, that try to pull everyone else's dream down just because you don't have the "gut's" to keep your own dream alive. "
And then again, there are seekers of truth, who try to wake the sleeping before their dreams turn into nightmares.
It won't be long, scott B.
I always love this 'not a pyramid' argument to try and justify quixtar being legal. Here are some other activities that are legal:
shark diving
smoking
racisim
promisquity
over-eating
base jumping
voting for Ross Perot
drinking XS energy drinks
Legal, yes. Good ideas? You decide.
The message is clear:
If you do not build a sucessful Amway business, you are lazy.
Been called worse by better.
But that's just me:)
One comment only:
Scott B. = Pinhead (IMO)
Looks like somebody took to heart the advice about forgoing education.
The whole email makes me sad, because we all know this guy is probably earning nothing or even less than nothing, and he probably can't afford the hit he's taking on the 'tools', but he still vehemently spouts the organizational rhetoric.
Saying it louder and with greater hostility won't make it true. But by golly, if it did, you guys really WOULD all be millionaires.
I've tried LOC to clean these bathroom walls but it doesn't seem to work!Sounds like he has drunk too many energy drinks trying to hit his 100 pv.
Hey Scott, It's too bad that your too busy out there building your "business" to realize that quitter is spelled with two t's . I didn't know that Quixtar was recruiting people right out of second grade. And I'm not a "quitter"...I never started. My friend did and I saw right through the scam. You think you'll be on a beach in two years with me serving you drinks, right? Well, whenever I vacation in tropical places I never seem to meet all of those quixtar execs who are supposedly crowding those beaches. Have fun losing your money, friends, and the respect of those closest to you. Wake up.
Hey Meagan -
they are only allowed at the beach on Peter Island because ALL of their vacation time is spent 'associating' with those in the business and arranging the so-called VAC time around some type of function, regardless of level...so the beaches of the world are kind of 'off limits' unless they're recruiting there, in which case it's used as a write-off, and they're too busy to lounge around anyway!!!
That Readers mail wants me to start my own bathroom blog on Quixtar..
only I might not be as nice as everyone here is towards AN IBO..I will resort to their methods and call them Dream stealers becasue they want me to quit my traditional biz. I will call them idiots, commies, liberals,
anti-christ, satan, demons, losers,
AND i will absolutly have no facts or ansers to my critics, just name calling and general classifications
OK, there's wayyyy too many Scotts out there, so I'm changing my comment leaving name, to avoid any confusion.
I'm not Scott Larsen, and I'm definately not Scott B.
I am now Rocket
But that's just me:)
Ok, 'Rocket' is pretty cool. And what is it with Scotts and Quixtar? I never met so many Scotts in my life...
All must let Qblog off the hook - I can't recall any time where he called Quixtar a 'Pyramid,' although it has been discussed.
I, on the other hand, have called Quixtar a pyramid, and an illegal one at that, a couple of times.
Porkchops just don't get the credit they deserve....
Well I see I can post again ! Hey Porky Pig- or porkchop- or whatever. Tell me how this is a pyramid? Do you know what one is? Tell me how this is illegal? Do you know anything your talking about? If it was illegal, how has it been around over 30 years?
Well?????
Hey q-frog how ya been?
Jason, Your so stupid you must be Dumbs- I mean Dmm's brother!
Hey I can't keep all these Scott's straight. That's funny Scott and straight in the same sentence. Which scott is scotty too hotty???
hey q-frog how much money did YOU make this week off this negative site? Guess you'll lie about that too!
Alex/Bravo/Whatever
More than you made in Amway, because he likely didn't take a loss.
I admire your spirit. Too bad your business is crap, and you will never be successful at it.
You might as well spend your time here, because at least it provides the non-Amwayers with entertainment, instead of accosting and bothering people in the mall.
Nice pretend business, you mogul, you
But that's just me:)
PS I'm Scotty too hotty, the one you call gay to deflect the fact that your business is crap.
I thought you Ambots were supposed to be positive?
Just think, I'll be serving you drinks on the beach in 2-5 years!
Better chance of you making money in Amway than that happening, but keep at it!
PADDLE THE CANOE!! PADDLE THE CANOE!!
But that's just me:)
Bravo, Alex, Me:
Are you in kindergarten or something? You still haven't answered the Yes or No questions I asked you a few days ago. If you cannot remember them they were as follows:
You have indicated that you don't have to buy the tapes, books, and other 'B***S***Ms'. I think that we'd all agree with the fact that it is not a requirement for IBO's. That said, do you feel that if an IBO doesn't buy 'B***S***Ms' that they can achieve and maintain the financial independence spoken of at a plan presentation?
Do you tell this to prospects at your plan presentations?
Have you ever asked this question to your upline?
Have you personally purchased 'B***S***M's'?
If so, is the amount of money spent on them greater than the amount of money you are recieving back from Quixtar in bonuses each month?
These are all yes or no questions. Can you answer them that way?
Try to focus here. I know you can do it. Don't worry, I don't think Qblog will give you a virtual 'timeout' if you want to behave and answer like a good little blogger.
Hey, Bravo/Alex/me is back with his ad hominen attacks. Can't argue the facts, attack the messenger!
A pyramid in the business and legal sense has absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the participants. Something could be a pyramid scheme and the group does not have to have the shape of a pyramid. In fact, it can have several pimples, lines, etc. What makes a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme is where the money comes from. If the money comes from the majority or solely from the particpants (in this case IBO's), then what you got is a pyramid scheme. If there are no products, you got a Ponzi scheme. If there are products, you have a product pyramid scheme (see 5-Star Auto Club).
Now, how is Amway/Quixtar a pyramid scheme? Because the majority of the products (over 80%?) are bought by IBO's themselves! that means, 80% of the bonus money paid to IBO's originated from IBO's, meaning they lost money. For example, Quixtar sold 1billion last year, meaning IBO's paid 800million, and received only 343million in bonus money. In other words, IBO bank accounts were 457million lighter at the end of the year.
Now, how has AmQuix survived over 40 years (don't know the history of the company you represent?) First off, AmQuix used to be much more door to door, and sales were made to actual customers. Second, when the FTC did investigate in 1979, it found that Amway had several rules, such as the 70% rule/10 customer rule that if followed, would make AmQuix legal. The FTC also took an in depth look at one of the lines that actually did retail.
The result was AmQuix survived the FTC investigation, barely. And afterwards, AmQuix became much more political, and throwing their money behind mostly Republicans, in order to receive some political protection (see Sue Myrick). However, if the FTC were to investigate again, Quixtar would suffer, because despite having the rules in place to encourage retail, it rarely happens, and most groups just say, "buy from yourself and teach others to do", which is the epitomy of illegal product pyramid scheme!
Ok, Bravo/Alex/me, do you have anything of substance to add to our conversation? Or is the only thing you can do is call me dumb like the petulant, little child you are acting as?
DMM, I wouldn't hold your breath.
I think when it comes to making a solid factual point, Alex/Bravo/Me is about as sharp as a bag of dead mice.
What you're asking is something that he simply cannot answer. He can only provide responses that were provided to him by the "leaders". The "leaders" are never challenged by the low level distributors, and never allow themselves to be put into a position where they actually have to give straight answers. They demand nothing less than the utmost respect and adoration.
If their "leaders" were true leaders, they wouldn't hide from discussions that their downlines have to face, and would allow them to raise the tough questions to them, based on issues that they are challenged with.
That is, if moving products was the goal, and not selling B***S***M's
I love browsing this page, mostly I look forward to Marks on Fridays. I rarely, if ever, comment however.
That said, I obviously missed out on some drama.
Did BRAVO, ALEX, ME get kicked off, or what?
I do have to suggest that he/she not be kicked off. Comments like his are quite entertaining.
Keep up the excellent work, QBlog. I have had my brushes with Amway and Quixtar. I have been to the "meetings." And all I can say is that TOM REMLY (marks) is exactly what I have experienced.
Anyway, by folks. Someone fill me in, please, on what BRAVO ALEX did to get himself a virtual timeout (I love that term). I love the the drama. ;-)
Not Scott,
Since you asked, yes, I've blocked Bravo, Alex, Me's IP address and am preparing a complaint report to send to his ISP. The reason isn't his content or whether I agree with his content but the nature of some of his posts were designed solely to disrupt the function of these comments. I won't mention specifics but in my opinion, it crossed the line.
You're free to disagree and start your own blog (like my friend QRush did). I try to make this as public and open as possible, free to any and all opinions but I won't tolerate clear abuse or spam.
I've removed a few of his comments (the technically disruptive ones) and so my comments are without their proper context but that's just how it goes.
Those who've read this blog for a long time understand that I do not remove comments without a good reason, but I always reserve the right to do so.
I'm not psychic, but you really don't have to be to see how the "Empire" is crumbling. And this leads one to ponder the recent questionable acts of the "King Bee" of BWW. Why would a respected leader act with such wild abandonment as to ditch the "Queen Bee" for another bee, attempt to divert personal fortune into off shore accounts, sudden retirement (without the graciousness of a personal announcement)? One may be inclined to think our "King Bee" may have read the writings on the wall after a couple of former diamonds blew this thing apart on NBC's Dateline a little while ago.My upline diamond couple were asked about some of the issues surrounding our highly respected leaders and were aware of those issues(though the downline never heard a peep) but, they did not deny any of them. In fact, several of the medias statements were actually confirmed! The questions about the tool system were not confirmed and in fact were denied by my upline (not diamonds).
I love the statement the author of the Letter of the Month made about the tool system. He wrote "The tool system is a pyramid scheme masquerading under the cover of a legitimate business." I used to admire the integrity of Rich and Jay, but, in this instance, I see through the smokescreen. Yeah, I know, they've helped so many. I guess that makes all the difference. How many have been hurt? How many more are on the way as soon as the veil lifts? I think those two could hold the key to this whole rotten mess. Anyway, that's my thoughts. Oh yeah, one more while I'm at it. I used to feel sad for all the ones who said "No" to the business. But these days I feel sad for all those who said "Yes".
Hi folks,
So here is my comment on the post thats refers to how Quixtar is a pyramid scheme....I just have two things to add to the below comments...1) When you buy things for yourself outside of Quixtar that is when you shop all other retail stores you are giing away 100% of your money in exchange fro products while IBo's are only giving away 77% - 69% of their money fro best value/great quality(140 patents on 139 exclusive lines of products)
2) No matter what the IBO business plan is still very much registered by the Federal Trade Commision and has one of the highest ranking everby Better Business Bureau and Quixtar has 1000 merchant partners like Circuit city, Office MAx, Disney Stores, NASCAR, Franklin Covey who partner with Quixtar because average poeple like me with Master's degrees and 2 bachelors degres in the fields of neurophysiology and Psychology thought it way easier to shop while saving 33-41 percent and get paid by Quixtar for spreading the good word....My income now is 2800/month because of Quixtar....HOW many hours would it take you to make an extra 100 dollars at your job. you would need 44,000 in the average bank to make an extra 100 in interest...is this not so....Any way TIME is MONEy and TIme on this blog is time away from the eral world....but quick note to QBLOG---The National Institutes of health, Microsoft, UNCF are all on the WEB so whwere is the logic behinsd "bathroom wall scribblings" OPINIONS ARE FREE!!! GET FACTS FROM A REPUTABLE SOURCE!!! Example FORBES magazine and Microsoft case study on Quixtar Patform...and what other company is 10 Billion this year since its inception 6 yeras ago???IBO's made 1Billion this year....SOME FACTS on how long it took other companies to getvtheir first billion
Xerox took 63 years
IBM took 46 years.
McDonalds corp took 22 years.
Quixtar took 4 years
Walmart took appx. 15 years.
Ebay took 10 years - net profits of 256.3 million dollars in 2004 (we made
more profit in our first year)
Microsoft took 14 yrs. Started in 1976 and made first billion in 1990
Amazon took 10 years
somone else wrote....
"Now, how is Amway/Quixtar a pyramid scheme? Because the majority of the products (over 80%?) are bought by IBO's themselves! that means, 80% of the bonus money paid to IBO's originated from IBO's, meaning they lost money. For example, Quixtar sold 1billion last year, meaning IBO's paid 800million, and received only 343million in bonus money. In other words, IBO bank accounts were 457million lighter at the end of the year.
Now, how has AmQuix survived over 40 years (don't know the history of the company you represent?) First off, AmQuix used to be much more door to door, and sales were made to actual customers. Second, when the FTC did investigate in 1979, it found that Amway had several rules, such as the 70% rule/10 customer rule that if followed, would make AmQuix legal. The FTC also took an in depth look at one of the lines that actually did retail.
"
Only time will tell! the tru value of free enterprise. But I ask do you reall think that these "people" become millionaires.....accidentally,that there are no nuances? is it like that in real estate, the military, insurance? or even spending time & money building web & blog pages to mask fears & failures. Those who continue to write these accusations, have only accomplished one thing ...reveal to the world the very flaw that kept you mediocre in the quixtar business...& understand now the very same flaw that will continue to keep you occupied at your little desks typing on little keyboards living a little life, in hopes that someday your "Death of Quixtar" dream will come to fruition, but I say oh ...Agent Smith we are the Neo's of the world...& we will fight only because we choose to
Well what would Scott have to say about a recent post i made to my site talking about quitting the Quixtar business...not because I gave up on my dream but because it was OBVIOUS that it was the only way to realize my dream.....things that make you go hmmm
Posted by: NSAIBO | August 16, 2004 10:31 PM