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June 17, 2004
Hard Core
By QBlog in
What is "Hard Core?" Well, it means one thing in the porn industry and something else entirely in the World Wide DreamBuilders. I received a document that apparently explains the essentials of a "Fast Track" plan for Quixtar success. The list of twelve "Hard Core" items seems pretty much the norm for Quixtar groups and I think it promotes some very positive business fundamentals.
However, there were two items that confused me ever so slightly. Both are highlighted in the graphic below.
The first puzzling item was number two on the list and it says "pay retail to your business for your personal use in order to isolate the savings." What exactly does this mean? My Quixtar stupidity shows again here but surely they aren't suggesting that IBOs forego their IBO discount to "isolate the savings?" What does "isolate the savings" even mean? I'm asking for help here. If you know, please tell me and I'll update this post to explain it.
Secondly, item twelve seems to say that one should use Profit and Savings to pay for CORE after you have already paid for it. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems to be saying that I should pay for CORE and then use the money I make on my first 1,000 PV to repay that CORE cost. I guess there is some sense to this because you assume your CORE actions will eventually generate enough profit to pay for the costs of being CORE. But what if it doesn't? Or what if it takes longer than expected to reach that 1,000 PV? Is there a plan to deal with that? I guess there has to be right?
UPDATE: Bo Short comments on the "isolate savings" issue.
Comments
"Isolate the savings" means that on the products that you personally purchase you would pay your business account retail price, thus leaving a perceived savings of the difference between wholesale and retail.
No plan to deal with the 1000PV delima and most people never get close.
The plan to solve the 1,000 PV bootstrap is taught fairly frequently (I heard it twice out of the 2 regional I went to and heard it in 3 other cd's). It's part of the "Legitimizing Your Business" cd of the "True North" series (FYI, True North series is about a dozen tapes that teaches all the technique you need to build your business, from how to contact to showing the plan to follow up to signing up, etc).
The idea is that the upline help build the new IBO business because 1) new IBO belief level in product, business, & upline are low & 2) new IBO don't have the positive cash to sustain their business.
When a new IBO sign up, the upline is to immediately set up 2 house plans. If the new IBO are active in contacting people to come to the house plan, the upline then continue to do 6-10 more plans for him, about twice per month. At the end of 3-6 months, the new IBO should have 3-4 personal width and 3-4 in depth, plus half a dozen clients. This will bring the new IBO to the 1,000 PV to 2,500 PV. During the first 3-6 months, the new IBO should be spending very little money since most of the plans are in his houses and the upline supplied all the material.
Once the new IBO reach this level, his belief should be pretty high, so he can then grow the business himself. Also, at this level, his gross income from the business should be about $6k to $15k per year, which should cover all expenses (car expense, sample, demo, systems, travel, etc.) This is the reason why they never bother talking about the expense--WWG believe everyone can hit this level, thus will never need to dip into their personal saving to build the business.
Mike Woods, the diamond who cut the Legitimizing cd, told me in person that one need to sponsor 6 to 12 IBO before there's one IBO who are this active and can sustain the 10 house plans within the 3-6 month period. He also said that ALL ibo started this way will hit silver within 8 months. ALL.
I asked him if there's a way for me to verify this independently. Answer is no, the data is from his personal observation. I, being the always so polite and non-insulting person that I am, told him he's pulling sh!t out of his @$$.
Before you jump on me, this is not me talking. This is how WWG teach people to build their downline so that they will always requalify at the highest volume attained and have a healthy, self-sustaining business.
My only personal comment, based on my business, is I agree with the needing to sponsor lots before finding one who does anything part.
My 3 foray into this "driving depth and legitimizing their business" fizzle pretty fast. After 5 house plans, of which 3 are no-show, the downlines stop contacting. They're still ordering, but they are definitely not working it. So I can't comment of if this 10 houses plan in 6 months will produce a 1,000 PV leg is true or not.
whoa...wait a minute Jennifer. I have a full set of the True North tapes, and nowhere do I remember it saying that your upline will absorb the cost (supply the materials) of showing house plans for you for the first 3-6 months....Please tell me what tape that is on. You may be correct in talking about YOUR upline, however, in the Danzik sponsorship line, this is the drill:
A new IBO is asked to schedule 2 house plans in his home within two weeks of signing up, plus one Beauty Break (Artistry line) for the ladies. At the house plan and BB, the new IBO is taught to have 1) converted their home to Quixtar items so that people who are coming in to the home can see that you are serious about your business and are using your own products...(they've even done a 'product police' walk-around in my home...) 2) you are to have snacks from your own store available, including protein bars, Active 8 juice, possibly popcorn... 3) the new IBO supplies the forms, complete with RED pens...(the first BB supplies are typically supplied by the platinum, but after that, it is the new IBOs responsibility to supply the basics) 4) the new IBO, if serious about his business, will have AT LEAST two Info Kits (aprox $80 each with supplies) on hand to lend to prospect IBOs who see the plan in his home....5) not to mention that, if you are serious, you should have purchased the complete set of True North tapes at your sign up (appr $140)
I don't know about you, but to me, this is a LARGE expense for the new IBO in the first two weeks to month...not minimal as you make it sound. And yup, this is WWG too.
As far as the upline showing the plan for the new IBO - are you referring to any upline who has been in 'a day longer than you' (as Puryear would define a successful IBO), or are you talking Platinum upline? The reason for my question is this....say you sponsor me. You are experienced enough to show the plan for me...so, you show 8-12 plans (2 immediate house plans, and 6-10 more as you stated) for me in 3-6 months. From that, I (with your help) sponsor the 3-4 in width and 3-4 in depth that you describe. Now YOU have to show 8-12 plans for EACH OF THEM in the next 3-6 months, because I'm not experienced enough to do it....sounds to me like you're pretty darn busy, and I'm just one IBO you sponsored...
My point? Are you now working 8-12 hours per week, part time? Or do you have another full time afternoon job?
This is why many have becomce critical of the business, because it really and truly is not what it is presented to be....here we have two folks (you & me) in the same line of sponsorship, with two totally different teachings....I spent a TON of money before I made a dime....
Jennifer,
You do realize that the document in question comes from the same tool organization you are a part of.
If what you say is part of that, then why isn't that explained in this document showing how one can build a Platinum business by being "Hard Core"?
Furthermore, that same document indicates on how such information should purposefully be withheld from new prospects and IBO's who haven't been in one full month.
Great news gang.
I isolated savings today. I bought a little under $30 to fill up the tank, and I paid $40 to the cashier.
And guess what? I was paid back from the store over $10!
Those broker jobbers have no idea. They go out and just spend, spend, spend. But because I'm such a smart Pro-sumer, I get to create retail prices and pay for them. That way when I get my money back it's going into my own business. Isn't that great?
And now I'm going to go and spend this money on tapes to hear the same speech I heard last week at a function. Ain't it great!
If it wasn't for me isolating those savings, I would never had the opportunity to hear such repetitive talks.
My and my fiancee are going to Applebys later for dinner. I think I'm going to pay $100 retail so I can isolate even more savings!
See you on the beaches of the world!
This is not surprising what is being done here. It's obvious to me that no matter how you label the money, it essentially works out to be the IBO's money going to products. Now instead of paying expensive wholesale prices, the IBO is paying even more expensive retail price, in order to separate the money. It would make it aappear as though you are making more money, when at the end of the day the reality is that IT'S STILL THE SAME MONEY!!!
Whether you keep it and just pay wholesale, or part with it and get it back later by paying retail, IT'S STILL THE SAME MONEY.
And you still buy the tools if you want to be successful.
It just looks like a further attempt at smoke and mirrors to me.
But that's just me.
I ran across your site and was quite amazed at the lack of business experience from all of you. I have been involved in Amway and Quixtar. I have never reached the Platinum level but we have typically made about $1500/mo for the last 10 years. For the majority of this time we have simply maintained what we had created which has never taken a steady committment.
First of all, you rant and rave about investing in a business to get it going. Why is the Quixtar business supposed to be different than any other business? All businesses have overhead and startup costs and efforts. Second, each IBO is independant. Ultimately I decided how much I would invest in time/money and how I would invest it. I run a budget with our business. At our level I typically spend $200 to $500 a month in overhead. A new person I start runs almost no overhead in their first two months. I invest my own time/money to get them started even before registering them in the business. My goal is to get them to 300PV in the first month or two. I have yet to fail in this if I am allowed to help. Typically the new IBO has made $300 from this. I suggest to them that if they desire to build a larger people business that the books/tapes/functions will help them like it has without question helped me. EVERY business owner will reinvest in the beginning to gain more later. Why pay retail for products? Check out the "Why Switch" brochure - you will see cost comparisons showing lots of products that cost less at retail than the store. The isolated savings represents money freed up in a person's budget that can be used to invest in education. If I use $6 to attend a seminar, my main interest is whether I feel I gained at least $6 of useful advice or instruction. There has never been a function where I have felt cheated. Additionally, every seminar or tape I have purchased has come with a money-back guarentee. Rarely have I attended a medical seminar where the seminar had such a guarentee. I have never paid my upline for his 100's of hours he has invested into helping me. In my medical practice I pay every time for consultants.
I can't help wondering why you spend so much time with this in the first place. I find it hard to believe that someone we see this as a great cause in their life. I doubt seriously you have ever run a business before and I would be surprised if you were over 40 years of age. For the person looking to develop a business and who can exercise their own decision making power, the Quixtar business in my opinion offers the greatest upside with the lowest risk of any businesses I have owned or looked at. It is not the only good business in town, but the for the masses of people it is the most available and perhaps the best option.
Isolate the savings?
Into the silliness is more like it. It's another attempt, manipulation by someone's upline to get them to spend more money and make it look like they are getting a great return for their "investment". It's about the upline getting into peoples' pocketbooks so that they can reap the so called benefits. It's easy to see what they are doing from this view. I am appalled at what lengths these people will go to to have a "successful" business. It's a load of you know what!!
Scott the Dr.
In response to your post:
I do not lack business experience. How you came to that conclusion based on a couple paragraphs, I have no idea.
Congratulations on making $1500/month for the past 120 months consecutively, you are an anomoly in Quixtar, and slightly above average according to Quixtar's information.
People, as you succinctly put it, "rant and rave" about investing in this business because the investment IS the business. Get it? People don't have a problem with the Quixtar products, other than the majority of them being overpriced. If you don't believe that, check out Scott Larsen's site where a price comparison is posted. The problem is the deception behind the tools business.
Personally the only ranting and raving I've ever heard as far as this business goes are the hero diamonds on stage, who your tool money goes to.
The functions can quickly be dismissed by most as non-informative and repetitive. Any information you might gain would be more efficiently provided on a web site, with no cost to download. If the focus is on moving product, and that's where the profit is, why wouldn't they do it that way?
BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THEY MAKE THE MONEY
Based on what you say, if everyone has a payoff for investing in the almighty tools, then why is the success rate less than 1%?
As far as why I spend my time here, it's fun. That's all. I'm interested in this. So what? This isn't a great cause in my life, does popping in here now and then make it a great cause? I guess that eating is a great cause as well, or sleeping, or having a drink of water.
I have run a business before, and I resigned to obtain employment in a government position. The company is still there. Was I successful at it? You betcha. It was my choice not to do it anymore. My age has nothing to do with it. I make more money and I'm happier. That's why implemented a career change.
As far as excercising independant thinking, this is NOT the business to be in if that's what you want to do. Just follow the proven system, have others duplicate what you are doing etc........
I hope nobody in your group is under 40, because by your logic, they might as well quit, since you can't be an intelligent business owner until then.
I'm glad that you say you help your downline, even if they choose not to plug in. That also makes you an anomoly in the Amway Quixtar business.
Best of Luck to you Doc.
I really need to add one more thing about 'isolating savings'...on the WSA4400, it shows those 'isolated savings' as income in the overall net for the year.
BTW - this Marks novel is great! I look forward to each new chapter on Fridays!!
Great post Scott..Not Scott the DR.
Scott the Dr. I ditto the other Scott's post. To add to it i reached what used to be Silver direct in the business..by driving a tap root to china.
That business is still intact. The pressure we put on people to sell their possesions to attend functions I am still embarrased about. I was in 12-13 years I made a $1.00 a tape and really cared more about that than the quality of them.
You cannot compare Quixtar with a traditional Business..The figure that %80 of small business's fail the first 3 years is still better than less than 1% in Quixtar.
You can also sell a traditional business, its hard to in Quixtar..My downline PSDD sold his for only 10K to his sponsor after 10 years in the BIz.
I am 40 years old, but you blast all that are younger.Does'nt the system teach contact the ages of 23-33?
Your out of the bell curve.
By the way I have owned 4 traditional business.
Oh boy, here we go. I am going to stereotype.
Something that is initially surprising, but makes sense after you look at it after a while, is that doctors are notoriously very bad at business. Their practice is their business, but they don’t really run it. A doc will cut you a prescription, but he doesn’t hand the bill to you at the same time...he has an office manager/staff/agency do that for him. Scheduling, also. Ol’ doc is pretty oblivious to all that...but he has a full office of clients and keeps getting paid - must be good. For us po’ folk, a trip to hell is a trip to a doctor’s office. Probably to WORST business experience we will ever face, and it is getting worse. Doctor gives good service, you hope, but the support/billing/scheduling staff is not infrequently a wreck. I see it, the other clients see it...but not the Doc. He thinks all is well. His reference for business is very limited unfortunately.
Here is the second part: if it was easy, everyone would be a doctor. It ain’t. Takes a smart guy to be a doctor. Business people? Dime a dozen. Can’t be that hard. Doctor ego - I’m smart, this can’t be that hard - viola! No reason why I can’t be a successful business man on my own, too! Faulty logic, especially given a very limited base of knowledge.
Well known ‘street’ fact: if you want to pull a big scam, pigeon a doctor. They frequently have disposable income, think they are smart enough not to get played (they’re a doctor, for cryin’ out loud!), and when they do get played are more embarrassed than the normal Joe/Joeleen to admit it. Bad for the reputation. Works just as well for the smaller scams, too.
Word of caution: if someone tries to get you into something business related and uses a doctor as a reference - well, you get the idea...
Uh... I told ya I'm slow. This makes no sense to me.
1. So Quixtar gives me a discount but instead of usiing this discount I pay full retail. How does this save me money? This makes no sense to me.
2. I guess with the 1,000 pv thing that there is no plan but you're guaranteed to make that 1,000 pv quickly so it's no big deal. Is that right?
"Isolating Savings" is simply the "economic entity assumption" from the first chapter of Accounting 101 (my text was: Weygandt Kieso Kimmel - Principles of Financial Accounting, 6th ed, page 11)
If you own a company, small or large, it needs to be treated as a separate economic entity - or simply - a separate checkbook. If you purchase a product that is sold by a business, you pay the price that the storekeeper demands. In this particular case, you're the storekeeper and we'll assume that you demand retail just like all other storekeepers.
Then at the end of the month you look at the balance of your personal checkbook - and it's zero like it always is (isn't that the definition of "balancing one's checkbook"? to bring the balance to zero?) and you look at the balance of the store's checkbook and it reflects how well or poorly your store did.
WWG is just teaching Accounting 101.
Accounting 101 at the University of Southern Retardia:
Students will learn to open a retail store that has no customers. They will learn how to buy things from their own store at a premium, charge themselves full retail and pretend that the rebate they get is a profit. In this way they will move money from their personal account to their business account without making any actual profit. Nevertheless, they will pay taxes on the "profit" they didn't make buying from their own store.
Sounds like a good class.
I think that all this whining is unbelievable. If you don't want to be successful don't buy the tapes or go to functions. Personal use is a key because if you don't buy for yourself why would anyone you get involved support their own bussiness. If you owned a clothing store, but could get things cheaper at Wal-mart and you shopped at Wal-mart you're not going to be in business very long. In my first month I made my initial investment back. Then I hit 1000PV my third month and tripled my investment. Do what you are taught and sooner than later you will succeed. If you don't listen you're wasting everyone's time.
Tide HE @ Albertson, 31 loads box, costs $8.99 ($0.29/use). SA8, 100 loads box, suggested retails $22.75 ($0.23/use) is 27% cheaper. I haven't found any Tide HE high use box, so can't make a true usage-to-usage comparision. But if they follow their standard practice (other P&G products price vs usage), I'm estimating their 93 loads box would cost $21.49 ($0.23/use), which is 1% more than SA8.
Tide HE @ Wal-Mart, 31 loads box, costs $5.74 ($0.19/use). SA8, 100 loads box, IBO costs $18.85 ($0.19/use) is 1% more expensive. If there is a Tide HE 93 load box and if WalMart sell them, then SA8 "wholesale" would be 22% more expensive.
I can make similar comparision with about a dozen other Quixtar products. You can quibble over whether Quixtar products is of the same "quality" as brand name products, but I'll leave that to the consumers.
Price is competitive for products similar to Quixtar.
The better wording for WWG "pay retail to yourself" is to take any savings you get for switching and use them to seed your business.
If you normally shop at Albertson and switch over to similar Quixtar products, you will see real savings. Use those saving to seed your business.
If you normally shop at Wal-Mart or if you normally buy generic brand and if you switch over to Quixtar products, then you will spend more money than you normally would. If you did this, I assuming you have a brain and made a conscious decision and you switched for some other perceived value. If you switched and spend more money because somebody told you you could be rich by doing so, I only got one word for you-- STUPID.
As for the 1,000 PV, critics like to twist it and make it harder than it is.
The plan is simple. You let me help you build your business to the 1,000 PV level. If I can't do it, you quit. Since you haven't spend much money/time, the risk to you is extremely low.
First off, do your own due diligence and satisfy yourself that the products are of the same quality and the price are competitive. [Ed note: I have yet to see any prospects do their due diligence in this. My prospect yesterday told me that she's going to do the prices & products comparison herself and will let me know Tue. I'll believe it when it happens. Everybody else before made the same statements, then didn't do their due diligence and took my word]. If you do your due diligence and believe the product & price are competitive, then it's no big deal to invite other people to see this business (price are competitive, so nobody are getting ripped off). If you do your due diligence and believe Quixtar products are over-priced, why in the world would you get involved in Quixtar????
For 3-6 months, I'll do 6-10 board plans for you. Your responsibility is to get people to that board plans. Goal is 30 people during this period. Estimate is out of 30 people, 10 will become clients and 10 will become ibo. This will yield 1,000 PV to 2,500 PV. (The estimate is from WWG which I haven't been able to independently verify, so take it as a wild @$$ guess on their part). During this period, your only expense & time is getting people to come to your house plan, so it shouldn't had cost you a dime. If you get to this volume level, the gross income should be enough to pay for all expenses in building your business going forward.
Anyho, that's the plan to get people to 1,000 PV. I hit 1,000 PV after getting 13 people to see the business plan. I have not been able to do the same for any of my downline legs.
I got one leg that was able to get 7 people to the house plan and I got her to 500 PV level (4 clients, 1 ibo). But she stop contacting and inviting. Nobody else came close.
The reason for not building a leg to 1,000 PV is not because I can't get the clients/ibo for them, but because they didn't invite anybody to the plan. They might call half a dozen and then stop. There just haven't been anybody who were persistent.
Collectively within my org, the 1/3 client 1/3 ibo ratio hold true. It's just that not one leg have put out the effort to get 30 prospects to see the business plan.
Disclaimer: the number above are for my org. It would be a fallacy to extend my specific number and make general statements about Quixtar and the likelihood of getting clients/ibo. I have zero data to show whether or nor I'm typical or highly atypical.
My personal observation/comment is that if your business doesn't grow to the 1,000 PV within 6 months, you're rather stupid for continuing. You're even more stupid if you are willing to spend money on tapes/function/car expense if you haven't reach this level after 6 months of effort.
The break-even point is 2,500 PV and if your business doesn't hit that break-even point within 12 months of effort, why are you still in the business? Even a lemma wouldn't be that stupid to keep going along.
To all who question why to isolate the savings.... The reason for this is simple: It is our belief that at suggested retail many of the products we carry are the same if not cheaper than the competitive brand. This is certainly true with the Artistry brand for example when comparing to like-quality brands. My wife used to purchase Este Lauder. At retail we are about 30% less expensive. We pay our business account retail to "trap" the savings. Over time this creates a real savings account. In other words, we begin creating equity from our purchases just like how equity is created in a mortgage payment. In addition to interest payments we all make a payment to reduce the principle amount. Over time we are creating equity in our home. People sometimes comment on how much money they can save with smart buying. This is good - I do it too whenever possible however in reality I cannot produce a bank account where the money was saved. In fact the savings just allowed me to buy more stuff. In our business, the additional advantage to paying yourself retail is that in the first month or two you can fund your business overhead through savings. I realize you need to recognize that there are savings at retail. Again, I refer you to the Switch brochure that does an excellent job showing this. For the frugal shoppers out there - obviously not everything we provide is less expensive. For these folks, only pay retail when you think it is less expensive. For all others, pay wholesale. Everything is a suggestion - nothing is required. I have always been taught to use my own brain as an independant business owner.
My making $1500/mo is not an anomoly for anyone who consistently applied 5-10 hours a week as I did and who utilizes the education available to increase the value of "You Inc." and to learn the skills needed to succeed in this business. I recognize that the average makes $115 a month but I do not accept that this has anything to do with the quality of the opportunity. I seriously wonder if the average health club member gains weight over a year's time. I really bet this is true. I would never fault the health club for this. The fault is with my patients who lack any real self-discipline or work ethic. Anyone who wants to can make what I make. Most of the people I am close to in Quixtar make much more than me.
I cannot speak for other organizations and I will admit that I do not like what I hear regarding some of the business activities of others. I'm glad Datline did the show. I hope it causes more corrections. I'm not going to adopt the bad practices of others, but it does hurt me indirectly - guilt by association. One of your biggest mistakes is to lump every organization and even every IBO together and to assume everything thinks the way you do. You are flat wrong with many of your statements - my own actual experience tells me this.
Our goal right now is to hit the Emerald level. In WWDB everyone can participate in the "tools" business. Personally, I have recieved great value from the system. Especially for me, starting at 22 years of age with no background for this, the I credit the system to my success as much as I would credit medical school to my success as a physician. My friends who are emeralds have told me that about 10% to 15% of their income can come from the tools business assuming that they travel to speak at different seminars. This never struck me as inappropriate. Most of my medical collegues can make more than this through speaking engagements at medical seminars. In ten years, I have attended many seminars. I can only think of two that I found little value. The rest were a bargain to say the least. If I really wanted to I could have requested a refund of my $6 for the two meetings I thought were not even worth $6.
You say the tools business IS the business. This is simply not true. Even a diamond in a "bad" organization should still make 6 figures from their Quixtar business. If they make a million from the tools business then I would simply say this is somewhat ok if what they teach has real value. Personally it does rub me a little wrong if a person's primary income is from the tools business. Especially if it is becoming a strong majority. If this is true the speaker better be a top speaker worth the price.
You said the majority of products are overpriced. I looked at the site you recomment and I can tell you the site has major flaws in analysis. For anyone questioning the price, read "Quixtar - the price is right". What a great job the author did in teaching about pricing and being competitive.
Web education downloads; Again, your lack of experience in adult education shows here. I speak for large medical manufacturers. There is a place for web learning to be sure. There is a need for stand-up teaching as well. The monthly seminar provides more than just teaching. Ours is a people business. I don't like using the analogy, but even God said to not forsake assembling together regularily. Its to help each other on, to support each other, to learn from each other. Each quarter we have a product line seminar to explain the superiority of our products - providing proof to IBOs. I just attended a special new merchandising program that has created more product revenue in our organization than any other in the last 10 years. By the way, I paid $6 for both my wife and I. It has made us way way more than the ticket price in the first month of implementation. WHY SHOULD I CARE WHAT THE SPEAKER MADE IF THE EVENT RESULTED IN INCREASED PRODUCT PROFT BEYOND MY TICKET PRICE??
Bottom line, I just listened to Greg Duncan's latest CD. At the end he said what is right: If you don't want to go, then don't go. If you don't see the value in a tape then don't buy it. Again, everything is optional and only suggested.
At the end you said: Based on what you say, if everyone has a payoff for investing in the almighty tools, then why is the success rate less than 1%? Where did the 1% come from? I'm not sure what level this is. If less than 1% ever make $300/mo then I would be surprised. If its less than 1% become a platinum, then I would have to say because of two reasons: First, they quit far far too early. Many takes 3 no's and quit. Second is they never learn from their mistakes. I refuse to believe that its because the opportunity isn't good enough. I've seen it first hand. One person with all the ability in the world quits after one or two weeks while the person with little ability by just won't stop trying reaches Platinum. Like every business under the sun, its what YOU DO that determines your level of success. In Quixtar, it doesn't take much in my opinion. But building Quixtar is exactly like loosing weight - nobody does it out of convenience.
Last thought: An anolomy to you is not an alomoly to Quixtar. Almost everyone I know personally operates as I do. By the way, I never said that you have to be 40 to have business sense. I said that it doesn't surprise me when I find someone without a lot of business sense that they are young and inexperienced. This certainly was true in my own case.
Scott
To: Great post Scott..Not Scott the DR.
You talked about being Silver with a tap root to China - if this is how you went Silver then you probably weren't real profitable. Congrats on getting to Silver - but you know perhaps better than most that pin doesn't necessary correlate to profit.
You mentioned putting higher value on a $1 profit for a tape and pressuring people and caring more about the profit than the people - why would you do that? Perhaps you had someone upline model this behavior. If so that's a shame. But that still didn't make it right for you to do it. We all make mistakes with inexperience. I made some myself early on. But I corrected them rather than quit and blame the business. That's like the old comedian who says "The devil made me do it!"
You said: You cannot compare Quixtar with a traditional Business - I agree with you. Quixtar is a different business model. However, we do disagree on one area - Quixtar from my personal experience is a very success model (when built correctly).
I'm not sure why anyone would want to sell a profitable Quixtar business when it was built correctly. With good leaders downline (a real key), you should be able to work less and less once you no longer want to grow your business.
You said I blasted people under 40 - forgive me if this is how I came across. I certainly don't think this way and perhaps I was more upset at the inexpience of the comments made and blamed it on youth. Perhaps that was not fair.
Your out of the bell curve - not really, I got in at age 22. I did some REALLY stupid things like putting opportunity cards on people's cars at midnight in an upscale neihborhood. What an idiot I was! Believe me when I tell you that I never checked that idea out before implementing it! The difference however was I learned over time from my mistakes and learned how to properly build this business.
I am curious: What were you 4 traditional business? What was your start-up cost and overhead for each? If you had locked your doors after the first month in each of them, you would have obviously failed. I question why people view Quixtar as the exception to this obvious result.
As far as price comparisons go, Quixtar is almost always more expensive, unless you compare the higest brand name products in their lowest per unit package. For example, at Costco, I can pick up Tide, 120 loads, for I think $16.99, which is $.14/load. I can go real cheap and use the Costco brand which is 120 loads at $9.99, or $.08/load. But, I found a product I like better in Gain, which at Target, is $8.99 for 80 loads, or $.11/load. Yes I pay more, but for me, the Gain is the best product, and it is cheaper then SA8. And laundry detergent isn't the only item I found cheaper and better products availabe at Target/Wal-Mart and Costco.
Now, as for "isolating the savings", it doesn't make economic sense. What you are doing is purposefully overpaying to get a slightly higher return. But why give that money to Quixtar for any amount of time? Why not pay wholesale and at the same time put the difference between wholesale and retail into your business account? This would save you money because it would lower your taxable income, and potentially make you more money, if you put it in an interest bearing account because the money would be put there by you today, instead of when you get paid by Quixtar a month from now!
Either way, it is silly to ever pay higher prices when you don't have to. Besides, there is another problem. The account you use to pay for the products will always shrink faster in proportion then the account you use for business rises when you only consider your own purchases. This is because at best, Quixtar pays 25% commission.
Last, for Scott the Dr., how much of your $1,500/month comes from member/client volume? How much does your downline sell to members and clients? If your and your downline member/client pv/bv is high, congratulations, as you and your downline are actually doing the business correctly. If not, however, there is a problem.
If you have a low member/client volume, what you are effectively doing, Scott the Dr., is "isolating the savings" from your downline! And just like your account you use to buy purchases will shrink proportionally more then your business account will grow, so will your downlines' accounts, meaning they will all be spending more money then they are making. Again, introduce a significant amount of money from non-particpants (members/clients) and this is not the case. But with the low member/client volume of Quixtar (average IBO has .23 member/client so that even if only 1 in 4 IBO's are active, the average active IBO has 1 member/client), chances are, your "profit", Scott the Dr., is coming straight from the pockets of your downline, who spend significantly more on Quixtar then they make back from Quixtar.
10 years in and the goal is Emerald? What happened to Diamond in 2-5?
Scott the Dr.
The education system, not to flog a dead horse, has very little value for the amount paid, and is virtually useless outside the system.
Health Club comment: People go to a health club to lose weight. yes, many fail, but the reason they joined was because they wanted to lose weight. I'm sure they knew it was going to take effort. Nobody said, just 5 minutes a day to get them signed up, then once they got them in, saying well, it takes effort. Don't compare Amway to a health club. It's not the same.
As far as the business being the business, it IS true. Don't take my word for it. Check out Bo Short's website. He has no reason to lie, he's out. But he's been there. If those tools were truly to help you have a more profitable business, then they would be at cost, so as to increse your upline's profit. Obviously their profit lies elsewhere.
Web education downloads; Again, your lack of experience in adult education shows here, to quote you. I don't care who you speak for. The messages in the tapes are the same, just by different people. I also teach, and the only time where people are required is to either answer questions, or practice a skill, so don't try to belittle me by insinuating that I lack knowledge in this area. You don't know me, and I have yet to direct a derogatory comment towards your person. So stop it.
You should care about how much they make off these, because they say that its to help you. Not true. It's to make money for themselves. Everybody knows it, except those who want to set aside all critical thinking to maintain "the dream". When they say "We could be anywhere else, but we choose to be here because we love you and want you to succeed", you've just been........lied to.
Listen Doc, you're obviously sold on this thing, so good for you. I am not about to go toe to toe with you on every little detail here, I just don't care about defending my position as much as you do.
If you're honest about the way you do your business, and you truly want to help people, then I hope you succeed.
But that's just me.
Good Luck!
Why is it when I say from my own experience that the tapes of wwdb were of immense value that I must have lost my head because of the "dream"? The vast majority of the IBOs I have been in contact have agreed with my opinion. I do not insist that everyone will feel that way. I think it is grossly unfair to assume one support system is identical to another. Also, it is unfair to assume that everyone will react the same to a tape. I think the only place we could agree here is whether the tapes can help to produce results. In my case, the answer was definately yes. In the case of my downline, it would also be a very definate yes. I have a new IBO right now that is starting slow. As a result, I am lending him tapes. Mike Wood's "Legitimizing Your Business" did more for this new IBO than I could have done in two hours of my own time. He has a much more solid understanding of how to begin and to make the first 300 PV. I think what you need to understand is there is great value in wwdb tapes when you are actively building the business. I really struggle with those folks were continue on a standing order tape program but have not implemented anything and are completely inactive. When I was building, I was hungry for that one or two things that would really make a difference. Maybe it was how to start someone, maybe it was how to approach someone, maybe it was just how to maintain a good attitude and remain persistant. Different speakers would address the basics in a different way because of their own background or experience. I especially learned how to teach new IBOs better by attending seminars myself. I probably would have never reached an organization of 100 IBOs if I hadn't attended a major function that was a real turning point for me. So from personal experience, please don't flatly say that all would agree that tapes and seminars. This is your opinion of the system you were exposed to. Again, I can only reflect on my own experience with wwdb.
To Porkchop... What's wrong with generating a six figure income part-time in 10-15 years? My own Diamond did it in less than 3 years but he also worked it much much harder than me. I have never heard anyone guarentee 2-5 years. I have heard and do believe that had been consistant 3-5 times a week as my upline described it would take, I would have gone diamond in 5 years or less.
Price Comparison
I agree that SA8 costs more. My clients tried samples and almost all said they liked it better than Tide and others. For those on septic systems I would never use Tide powder. Unfortunately powder detergents always out-perform liquids. This is true for ours as well. Its a chemisty thing. SA8 powder on the other hand doesn't contain the softener chemical (I can't recall the name - its in my notes somewhere) that does not dissolve but rather greys out clothes prematurely and also is very bad for a septic system. This was confirmed by a friend who attended an extension class at the local university. SA8 is in my analysis a better product worthy of a higher price. It is also biodegradable. It dissolves better than any other powder in cold water I have seen. I did a local price comparison at our local grocery store an found the LOC + products, metal cleaner, bleach, pursue, dish drops, glister, and many others to be LESS expensive at retail. Personally, it is not necessary for me to cheaper than Target or Wal-Mart or especially CostCo. I love and hate costco. There are some great deals there but oh the pain of shopping there. At least they offer free food samples to calm me down! It takes 30 minutes round trip to go door to door vs going to my PC in my office at home, they don't open until 10:00am ( I arrived once at 9:00 am), Quixtar's open 24/7, Quixtar delivers to my door, I don't have to worry when I don't have my membership card, I have a plethora of information and knowledgable help with Quixtar, I don't have to wait in line at the checkout counter, I can actually use a VISA card, I don't have to wait in line to get out the building, I don't have to worry about not getting a bag to take my purchases home. And most of all, as an IBO, nothing I purchase at CostCo will ever make me any money. I can't refer someone to CostCo and make the money I make in Quixtar. This alone, is worth a higher price. To compare a Quixtar purchase to a CostCo purchase isn't fair. To compare the price of a bottle of water from the local convenience store to one at CostCo isn't fair. Cost isn't just the price, its all that you give up to get it. For many (not all) Quixtar offers unique products with an iron clad satisfaction guarentee, free home delivery to clients, 24/7 shopping, knowledgable help, information at your fingertips, and one/one customer service. Its a successful business model that works. 90% of Artistry skin care uses at the client level state they will always use Artistry. Lots of people are happy and have been so for over 40 years. In fact, I have gained a handful of clients because they found out I could get them the old Amway products that they loved. Thanks to some ex-IBO who quit, I tool over their business and recieve the profit.
Clients/Members/Downline
We run about 300PV to 400PV between personal use and clients. This month we had about 5 clients order with an average of 35pv each. In addition to our typical 150pv to 200pv in self-use we set up cell service with AT&T through our wireless network. Our phones were free, plus we recieve $100 back, plus we accrued 100 PV/BV. In addition, we also picked up a Canon digital camera that was cheaper than my friend could get it for me at his cost at CompUSA. Because of Quixtar's site, it was easy for me to do my research to get the best deal plus I recieved PV/BV. I am also looking at a new DVD player at our partner store Circuit City. I will pay the same price as the store, pay no shipping and get PV/BV. Multiply this to 100 IBO's and you get an excellent business income with low on-going effort.
As far as downline, we have 7 legs that consistently run between 100PV and about 1000pv. About three do close to 1000pv.
My goal is to help everyone retail at least 200pv if not 300pv in clients alone. This will make about $300 of profit to them and make them successful regardless of sponsorship. This is taught by Woods, Puryear and others. This has been enough to keep most IBO's in the business for a long time. Our clients have been tremendously loyal. By the way, these are not relatives who are loyal to us, they are people who swear by our products, service, convenience, etc.
Correction: What I meant to say in my comments below is that the only place I think we could agree is that the cost of a $6 tape is worth the price if the tape provides at least $6 worth of helpful information. If it does, then who cares what someone makes off of it? As I mentioned before, at least for emeralds in wwdb, the tools business is most certainly NOT where all the money is at. As I said before, I have heard the tools and speaking business adds 10% to 15%. This isn't unreasonable to me.
I WAS RIPPED OFF TOTALLY OVER A PERIOD OF 24 MONTHS BY THESE LYING, THIEVING MULTI-LEVEL PYRAMID SCAMMERS --- THEY SWORE ON A STACK OF BIBLES THAT THEY NEVER MADE ONE PENNY OFF OF THE SALES OF CASSETTES, NOR MADE MONEY FROM THE EVENTS --- TOTAL LIES !!!!! HOW MUCH MONEY THEY STOLE FROM ME, I CAN'T BEGIN TO CALCULATE --- THIS DOESN'T COMPARE WITH MY BROTHER WHO WAS FAITHFUL TO WWDB/BRITT-AMWAY FOR THE BETTER PART OF TEN YEARS, WITH NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT BUT SICK LIES FROM THE BRITT-PURYEAR SCUM WHO ARE SO ASHAMED OF THE SCAM THEY ARE RUNNING THAT THEY TRY TO CAMOUFLAGE THE NAME -AMWAY- WITH A NEWER NAME QUIXTAR --- AMWAY AND QUIXTAR ARE ONE-AND-THE-SAME: BOTH ARE MULTI-LEVEL-MARKETING RIP-OFF CONCEPTS, AND EVEN WORSE THAN THE EMPTY LIES OF THE WHOLE AMWAY-QUIXTAR LIE IS THAT ALL THE SPEAKERS FROM STAGE LIE WITH STRAIGHT FACES SAYING THEY NEVER TAKE EVEN ONE PENNY FROM THE "TOOLS-AND-FUNCTIONS" SIDE OF THE BUSINESS !!! SICK BASTARD LIARS !!!
To Ripped off:
Britt and Puryear are two different organizations with their own set of tapes and functions. I know in wwdb, the fact that there is profit in the support system is no secret in fact it is taught on stage, on tape, and by the upline. I would find it hard to believe that Britt would be any different. Perhaps your upline said this which would be true for them (I don't make anything on tapes/functions) but I find it hard to believe that Britt would deny this. In fact, it seems to me in Forbes and some similar magazine he admitted this. I think you are upset for not making your own decisions and for staying in a business you were not building but were continuing to invest in. Grow up - try using your own brain and take responsibility for your own decisions rather than playing the mindless victim. Did it take you 24 months to figure out someone makes money from the support system? If you didn't find it valuable, get your money back. It was in the contract you signed!!
Its amazing to me that you claim every speaker has commented from stage that they don't make a penny from speaking. Its amazing to me you claim that your upline swore on a stack of bibles. I find your comments hard to believe. My suggestion; contact your state attorney general and see if he/she will find you credible. Personally you sound like a looney.
The answer is yes to #2. The idea is to have two checking account, a personal one and a business aaccount.(you can open two personal accounts) When you buy any products then you use a check from your personal checking account to pay for them at retail. Then when you write a check to your upline from your business account for the wholesale amount of the products including 5% shipping + tax. The amount leftover from wholesale to retail and any bonus money goes toward the "seed" money for tools such as tapes, books, functions, ect
the premise to the answer to number two is if you were to goto the store and buy these products they would charge you the retail price. Therefore you should also pay the retail price since Quixtar is a business.
THe idea of going a 1000pv is that by the time you go 1000pv you legitimize your business. Know the money from a 1000pv bonus can be used to buy more tapes,books,functions, info packs,ect.
Hopefully that answers the question a little.
form an ex wwdb ibo
Posted by: Viktor | June 17, 2004 10:44 PM