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March 24, 2004
Chatstar
By QBlog in
My friend Dwighty is a Quixtar IBO. A few weeks ago he shared an Instant Messenger conversation with me that he had with one of his friends named "SurferChic." She is a new Quixtar IBO in the BWW organization and Dwighty pretended to be clueless about Quixtar instead of immediately revealing his affiliation with the business. What follows is that IM conversation with only minor edits for clarity and to maintain the flow of conversation. I kept many of the misspellings and grammatical errors. This conversation is completely real.
The Greeting
SurferChic: hey dwighty
- what's up
Dwighty: yo - not much
SurferChic: good stuff...
The Business
SurferChic: I am looking for a new job and working a business so life
has been hectic. Moving into a house this weekend too
Dwighty:
cool - what business are you working?
SurferChic: It's an independent business but
thousands of people all over the world have been in the business for 33 years.
It's basically changing your way of buying.
Dwighty:
Well what's it called?
SurferChic: We have a supplier that supplies
everything from toothpaste to washing machines. Our business is called UP2datemarketing,
but our supplier is Quixtar. It's been super beneficial and extremely
profitable.... have you ever heard of Quixtar?
Dwighty:
Oh yeah? Sounds interesting. You said people are in this, like a lot of people?
SurferChic: Yeah. All over the world
Dwighty:
How did you hear about it?
SurferChic: it's a way to make some extra money
and eventually be so financially set through the business that we won't have
to work, of course only if we put the time in it now...
umm.. this guy Patrick told us about it. We've been really involved in all the
business meetings and everything cause I was REALLY skeptical
Dwighty:
Hm interesting.
SurferChic: But it's totally legitimate and it
works so i'm not complaining
Dwighty: Oh yeah? Have
you made any money with it?
SurferChic: Yeah. Absolutely
Dwighty:
Cool
SurferChic: Of course I hope to make more later
on but it's a process depending on how much time I invest into my business
Dwighty:
What exactly do you do? Do you sell stuff or what?
SurferChic: Ok look at it this way. It's like
going to the mall. There is a mall owner who owns
the mall and makes a percentage of all the stores sales.
Ok, if you went into Macy's and spent say $300 and on the way out the manager
stopped you and said, excuse me sir, can i see your receipts from shopping today.
And you showed him, and then he turned around and said, well, thank you for
shopping with us and to show our gratitude, here is some money back. Do you
think you would go back again and shop at macy's?
Dwighty:
Sounds like a rebate. Sure.
SurferChic: Well, let's just say that the next
time you went to Macy's, you took Joey, Radwan and your brother with you. You
all go shopping and once again when you leave, the manager stops you and says
hey guys let's see those receipts. And he turns around and gives you a check
for shopping there, and he gives a check to Rad, Joey, and your bro for shopping
there.
But then he turns back to you, and says Dwighty, because you brought these 3
friends in with you, I am gonna give you 3% of all there purchases also. So
you just tripled your own rebate (so to speak). Well, then the next time you
shop you go, the 3 of them go and they bring 3 friends each. The manager is
gonna give you your check, them their check. Their friends a check and then
turn to your 3 friends and say her thanks for bringing these guys in, here's
a check for you, so they just tripled their rebate like you once did. Except
then he turns back to you and once again says Dwighty, thanks for telling people
about Macy's here's a check for you, your three friends and their friends.
The Pyramid Scheme
Dwighty: Interesting. This sounds like a pyramid scheme.
SurferChic: Well - that's the thing. It is NOT
a pyramid. Hold on one sec. I'll explain why.
Dwighty:
Ok
SurferChic: You see there is no top of the pyramid
Dwighty:
What? What do you mean there is no top?
SurferChic: Because the people underneath you
would become their own business owners so they profit, you profit from telling
them and guiding them in there business. However, the people above you benefit
and so on, just because you took the time to share with someone how to change
there buying habits. It goes 4 generations so your kids, kids, kids will be
set. You can will it for 4 generations. You are basically a sales person for
hundreds of main companies.
Dwighty: Wait. It really
does sound like a pyramid though. You basically have you and then you sign up
or "teach" other people below you how to be like you and they do the
same thing.
SurferChic: Example: Quixtar is a home page for
hundreds of businesses ( kay-bee toys, MCI, IBM, Office max, hundreds of well
known companies. Our web site links to Quixtar
Dwighty:
Who's website?
SurferChic: And these other websites basically
rent out (so to speak) room from Quixtar to advertise, so when someone goes
to my web site, or any business owners web site, they can link to any of these
stores through the Quixtar home page, and because they chose to go to this link
through my site, The store they buy from ( MCI for example) turns around and
gives Quixtar money for helping then make a sale and advertise, and Quixtar
in return says well, it was SurferChic that told them about the site that linked
to MCI,. so we are going to give her a check for her advertisement.
Every IBO has there own site. Like ours is www.up2datemarketing.com.
Quixtar is the #2 most profitable website in the nation. Second to e-bay
Dwighty:
Hey that's a cool website! Did you make it?
SurferChic: My fiancé did. Quixtar also has the
#1 highest sales of health and beauty products on the web
Dwighty:
Did you meet him through this?
SurferChic: NO, no,no,no. He was already involved in the business and I refused to be a part of it because i thought that it was just another multi-level marketing scheme. But after going to the meetings, and meeting people involved and hearing the business plan a few times, and really researching it myself, I found it was completely legit and it's a great business for anyone just looking to make some extra cash. It doesn't cost really anything to invest in it and you only have to put in 5-7 hours a week if you choose to be an active IBO.
Not Amway
Dwighty: I'm looking
at this Quixtar thing, is this Amway?
SurferChic: no, it's not Amway
Dwighty:
You sure? It looks like Amway
SurferChic: Quixtar does have some of there own
products ( like the Artistry make-up, which is #1 beauty on the web, and certain
other things but it's basically a homepage, or link to tons of very well known
businesses
Dwighty: Amway sells Artistry
SurferChic: No. We have a list of partner stores.
Like I said everything from toothpaste to washing machines
Dwighty:
http://www.amway.com/OURSTORY/o-prodSkin.asp
SurferChic: ok, i'm not sure about all that
Dwighty:
Well, I mean, it's right there. That's Amway and Artistry is what it's selling.
SurferChic: I just recently got involved in the
business but I do know that we (QUIXTAR) is the #1 highest sales of health and
beauty on the net and the #2 website in the nation, second to e-bay. So, if
it is the same product, we're blowing Amway outta the water. Because Amway does
nothing for there customers as where we. Reimburse checks and have rebates.
We work on a point system
Dwighty: So Amway is
bad, then?
SurferChic: I never said Amway was bad. It's
just that Amway is alot like the whole Mary Kay thing or Tupperware. Really
what does your company do for you......Nothing
Dwighty:
Paid days off? ;)
SurferChic: Quixtar gives back to their business
owners and prosumers
Dwighty: So, really, all you
have to do is guide people to your website?
SurferChic: We get paid all the time for just
telling people about shopping online and saving time from haiving to go to walmart
basically. Just to the ideal of shopping online. basically. I mean, we've already
seen the increase on the internet since 1998 it's went from 4 billion to like
35 billion and newspapers and studies everywhere have talked about by the late
2000's were gonna be doing almost 80% of our shopping online. So why not start
now and save money and time?????? and get paid to do it too :)
Dwighty:
Really? That's it? So, if I went shopping there, if you sent me a link to the
website, I go shopping, I'd get a check in the mail?
SurferChic: You'd get a check if you were a IBO
Dwighty:
If I were a what?
SurferChic: If you wanted to just be a member
( like a member at Costco) you'd pay a 20$ a year fee to have access to the
quixtar shopping method which actually saves you money or client's just pay
full price because members get the same discounts as an IBO except they don't
get a check back because they are not working a business. An IBO ( independent
business owner)
Dwighty: But the only way to make
money shopping is to sign up?
SurferChic: Not to sign up, if you sign up then
you become a member. Which you still get the benefits of discounted items the,
same cost as an IBO
Dwighty: So if I don't sign
up, how do I become an IBO?
SurferChic: You can be a leg off of our business
but in actuality you would be your own owner. We would just guide you along
the way. It's like a tree almost but with no end to the roots
Dwighty:
So, wait, I join up under you? So it is a pyramid scheme.
SurferChic:The more people you tell about your
business ( which would be whatever you wanted to call it, just like we chose
up2date marketing) the more income you would make and so on for them
No. It is not a pyramid
Dwighty: Explain to me how
it's not. You've got one guy at the top and all these other people below that
person.
SurferChic: Because they're is no top of the
scale
Dwighty: Yes there is. There has to be. Who
did you go under? Who did they go under? There has to be a point of origin somewhere.
SurferChic: Like, ok, you would branch off of
our business but we are branched off of Patrick's business and he off of someone
else's. The very very very very very top of the scale is BWW
but..................
Dwighty: So ultimately I'm
a branch of Patrick, if I was an IBO
SurferChic: they do not make anything from us
Dwighty:
They don't?
SurferChic: BWW is our education system. like
McDonalds so to speak
Dwighty: What does BWW stand
for?
SurferChic: No lie
Dwighty:
McDonalds don't stem off of each other. Franchises are completely separate from
each other unless one person opens up multiple restaurants. But in your case,
I'm under you.
SurferChic: When you want to open your own mc'd
you have to invest 1.2 million dollars into the crofts, who then sends you to
hamburger university ( it really is called that) and then goldenseal foods is
your supplier. That's the difference
Dwighty: How
does that have anything to do with what we're talking about? I'm asking you
how this isn't a pyramid scheme
SurferChic: McDonalds is a public franchise which
is why they cannot stem off of another because one person ( the crofts) want
to make all the money, they get 2% of every sale from every McDonalds in the
nation over 32,,000 locations where as we branch as a private franchise. And
BWW is our educator so we don't go through any crazy schooling, we learn how
to build our business through cd's and tapes at our own convenience and time
Dwighty:
So, then, whatever I make has no effect on what you make?
SurferChic: BWW doesn't make the money because
the money goes right back into the business. They business is like one big circle,
everybody benefits no matter what. No-one gets screwed
Dwighty:
You're skirting the issue
SurferChic: What do you mean?
Dwighty:
Look, you've got one person, you, at the top. I sign up under you (regardless
of whether or not I call myself "independent") I sign up people under
me and they sign up people under them. And that's just my line. You also have
other people under you making their own lines. It looks like a pyramid. Draw
it on a sheet of paper.
SurferChic: Yea, i make like 3% of your sale
because i told you about the business, it's as easy as that. and you would make
the %'s of everyone you told. No, we do draw it out everyday to show people
the plan. It's a circle method because everybody benefits. It only goes 6 wide
and 2 deep which is a perfect team, but some people surpass that number
Dwighty:
But it's not a circle method. Your money does not go to the person below me.
The person below me does not make money based on your percentage.
SurferChic: Yes because they get a percentage
also
Dwighty: From somebody below me not from you, which is why it's not a
circle
SurferChic: yes, someone below you still gets
a check. None of the money comes from me
Dwighty:
Look at this
SurferChic: Quixtar pays out everyone
Dwighty:
Right, which is why it's not a circle. In a circle, the end meets the beginning.
The top meets the bottom. In this, the top only gets higher. Like a pyramid.
SurferChic: ok, your not understanding. to be
a pyramid they're has to be a top. There is no top. We are not the top. Yes
we are above you in business because we've been in the business longer. No different
than working your way up in an everyday 9-5 job. However, everybody in your
team benefits from any sale made within your team. Which really the team, is
everyone involved in the business, because not one is better or higher than
another
Dwighty: It does? So if Sam were below Bill
and Bill made a sale, Sam would benefit how?
SurferChic: One may be more experienced and in
the business longer which would explain why they are making more money because
they have invested more time and money in people and there business than a fresh
IBO
Dwighty: You're skirting, again.
SurferChic: Sam would benefit because he told
Bill about the business
Dwighty: No, Bill told Sam
SurferChic: But bill would still be receiving
a check. You know what I'm saying
Dwighty: Or even
I told Sam. I told Sam and got him to sign under Bill. Bill makes a sale, but
all three of us are in the team. How does Sam benfit?
SurferChic: no, you told Sam. Sam told Bill.
That is how you build your business
Dwighty: Ok
fine. Then Sam makes a sale, how does that sale benefit Bill?
SurferChic: you just guide Sam in building his
business because you want to ba a good IBO and support your team. Everyone helps
each other out as a team because we all together want to be successful
Dwighty:
That's an honor system that has nothing to do with the scheme.
You're not answering my question.
SurferChic: You're starting to confuse me what is your question?
No More Confusion
Dwighty: If A, B and C are in the same "Team" C is under B
is under A
SurferChic: ok. if C makes a sale
Dwighty: You said that if one person makes a sale, everyone benefits
from it. That's what you said.
No. If B makes a sale, how does that benefit C?
SurferChic: they get a percent of it, B gets
a percent and A gets a percent
Dwighty: So C gets
a percent of B's sale?
SurferChic: no C doesn't get anything if they
are not working there business because they can't sit on there ass and expect
a check, you can't have B do all your work. however, because they are a team,
they point system yes, does effect C's points
Dwighty:
But you just said that everybody in the team benefits from on team member's
sale.
SurferChic: everything linked to quixtar has
a percentage of points
Dwighty: This is still sounding a lot like a pyramid scheme. In order
to make money, you have to sign people up under you who make sales.
SurferChic: so everyone in your team and there
clients buys or sells so much money in points and the more money that is spent,
the more points the team gets, the higher the checks returned will be
Dwighty:
But not for the team
SurferChic: Everyone makes sales. Yes for the
team
Dwighty: No. Everyone above the person who
makes the sale.
SurferChic: But even though we are a team we
are all separate IBOs
Dwighty: If there's one person
below that person, he gets nothing. Everyone else gets money whether or not
they did anything.
SurferChic: Not true
Dwighty:
I could sign three people up under me and then not do anything and they make
the sales and I get money.
SurferChic: Yeah, cause you can't stay stagnant
Dwighty:
That's based on the system you've told me.That's an honor system and has nothing
to do with the business system.
SurferChic: Like if you went to work tomorrow
and your boss saw you constantly not doing anything he wouldn't pay you.
Dwighty:
He would fire me. But your analogy is still flawed.
SurferChic: Those are people who say they want
to be an IBO but they don't because they don't wanna do anything with there
business
Dwighty: If I sign up five people under
me and those five people make sales and I make none, will I or will I not get
a check? It's a yes or no question
SurferChic: No, you still have to make at least
100 points for yourself
Dwighty: Ok, fine. I make
100 and everyone below me makes 1000
SurferChic: if your not making your points the
business is not gonna reward you for taking advantage of your team members however
they will get checks because they made there points you would still have to
make at least 100 of your own points
Dwighty: Really?
SurferChic: yes - really
Dwighty:
You mean points are not earned from the people below you?
SurferChic: People typically are not gonna make
more points than you because since you told them about the business you are
a role model for that team, which is why we help others build there business
it's like a family. Points are earned yes
Dwighty:
Please, let's not get into the Mafioso side of this
SurferChic: But you cannot gain points without
making your own
Dwighty: For the sake of argument, let's say they did sell more than
me. So I get some of their points.
SurferChic: Then they will get a check based
on the percentage of points they sold
Dwighty: And I will get nothing?
SurferChic: they keep there points and get a
check based on them but you also get acknowledged for their work becasue you
told them about the business
Dwighty: Let's say I sign up three people under
me. Each of them do 100 points. That means that I get 300 points, right?
SurferChic: Not unless you make you 100 points
Dwighty: So if I make 100 points, I get 300 points?
SurferChic: If you make your 100 points and you
get 3 IBOs underneath you and they make there 100 points, then you will get
a check based on 400 points
Dwighty: Why won't I get a check based on 300 points?
SurferChic: But the same goes for them if they
get other IBO's underneath them
Dwighty: I don't care about them. Let's stay here
for a moment. If I do no sales and these three people under me do 100 each,
I won't have 300 points?
SurferChic: Because you get acknowledged for there 300 points and you 100 points that YOU made, which in turn is a check for 400, there 300 and your 100
The Confession
Dwighty: Ok, can I tell you something?
SurferChic: NO
Dwighty: I can't tell you?
SurferChic: you can't get 300 points from them
if your not doing anything. You only get there
300 if you make at least your 100
Dwighty: I have a confession to make.
SurferChic: you are setting an example. What?
Dwighty: I've been in Quixtar for two years.
SurferChic: Ok, then you explain it to me in
laymen's terms
Dwighty: You're dealing with two point systems.
Group Point Volume and Personal Point Volume
SurferChic: ... . . . . .. . . . .
Dwighty: If I sign up three people straight down
the line going deep and not wide, yes, I will make no money from the volume
because percentages are subtracted. But if I go wide, the percentages are smaller.
SurferChic: no
Dwighty: Yes let me explain.
At 100 points. I qualify for 3%.
At 300 points, I qualify for 6%
SurferChic: you go wide and the people wide from
you build there business which makes you go deep
Dwighty: Let me finish. If my three legs do 100
points, I get group PV of 300. That qualifies me for 6% of my Personal Business
Volume (how much money I generated for the business) and 3% off of my downlines
Business volume (They are each at 3% and I am at 6%. 6-3=3%) I get a check equal
to 6% of my BV PLUS 3% of each of my downlines' BV. Since I didn't make any
sales or "in laymen's term" buy anything from Quixtar, I get nothing
from the 6% side, but I still earn money from the three downlines.
That is why they say you go deep for stability and wide for profit. Incidentally,
how much money did it cost to join as an IBO?
SurferChic: ok, well, to be completely honest
i don't understand the money end and all the complicated stuff. I just contact
and share the products, My fiancé does the business plans. It only cost us like
maybe , maybe a hundred and forty bucks if that. because we went deep with it
Dwighty: Then next time someone like me comes up,
use the "Team" option of your business and suggest you and that person
talk to your fiancé :)
SurferChic: we got the standard book and tape
order, and the web site and the personal assistant and enough literature to
give away to a herd of cows
Dwighty: So all together, it costs $140?
SurferChic: something like that of course we
still invest money into our business because his day job is at the gym, so we
buy XS, and sell it there to make a profit
Dwighty: And do you guys hold any conventions?
SurferChic: we don't hold conventions but we
have the options of attending different conventions held
Dwighty: how much does a convention ticket cost?
SurferChic: our surrounding team meets on Fridays
and then the teams in this area have a meeting once a week in a conference room
at a hotel down here
Dwighty: But you don't have annual or quarterly
conventions?
SurferChic: umm... the next one coming up i think
is 99 dollars but were also paying more because were renting buses and going
up together as a bunch of teams i have no idea about that
Dwighty: Where is it being held?
SurferChic: you tell me ???? since you should
know
Dwighty: I'm not in your LOS
SurferChic: Kentucky. They're not small conventions,
they're huge, you should know about it
Dwighty: I meant what hotel :P
SurferChic: i don't know
Dwighty: Hmm
SurferChic: i don't know if i'm goin
Dwighty: But no conventions are in your area or
at least Orlando?
SurferChic: we just got a house, and were gonna
be gradually movin in during this next week and i'm changing jobs so i have
to work probably. no. none around here. just the weekly meetings
Dwighty: hmm. ok. Well I advise you to start asking your upline questions
so you'll be ready for someone like me who's not in the business :P
This was a test, but it could have been a prospect. Oh, and I prospected you
about this two years ago.
Comments
Hey whats up?
Just IBO'd myself with Quixtar and wondering how you've done so far. How long have you been affiliated and have you seen results that you were expecting? Just curious to find out no make sure i'm not being taken for a ride. It would be greatly appriciated. Out in Denver, CO.
Absolutely frightening reading SurferChic's comments. Completely clueless. I hope her fiancee is better at spouting the advantages of pyramid building, because I would never consider going into business with someone who sounds like SurferChic.
There is a saying older than I am that says you have to be willing to be bad in order to get good. I would much rather see people stepping out and trying than being a critic to point out every fault. Show me someone who has never failed and I will show you a failure.
You tried and failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
I think the saying is more like this:
"Show me someone who has never failed, and I'll show you someone who has never tried anything worth doing."
As for critics, I say bring them on. How else am I going to develop in what I'm doing -- I need feedback, and even if it's utterly corrosive, I can always do something about it. A steady diet of worshipful awe is more damaging in the long run, IMHO.
Incidentally, she showed this convo to her boyfriend and he then came and asked me for advice.
I think I made a mistake because now he won't stop spamming me with "motivational" e-mail junk.
I agree with your quote, Socrates (and thanks for the laugh, Homer), but one does not always have to experience something for himself to know it will an abject failure. I don't need to try and fly by jumping off a skyscraper to know it is a very bad idea. In addition, while those who never try always fail, those who do not do their due diligence and do not become experts in their business practices are also doomed to fail. Obviously SurferChic is neither an expert nor has she done her due diligence.
A couple of people came over yesterday, one of them being an old friend. The presentation they gave me was very confusing. I felt as if they didn't know the product they were trying to sell me. Or perhaps they knew only what they've been taught. All my questions received a run around answer that left me with more questions. I would never buy into something that cannot be explained to me clearly and accurately.
To anyone involved in Quixtar reading this post, remember this.
Sincerity speaks to motive. The root of sincerity is honesty. When we are honest with ourselves, we are honest with others, and we are able to speak and act truthfully.
That is why I begin most of my conversations with I do not have answers only questions. I am honest enough to admit that we are all human and not infallible. The reason the Delphic Oracle said I was the wisest man was I was the only one to know that I didn't know. I say the unexamined life is not worth living. The unexamined business is not worth doing. I looked at the pros and cons of quixtar and liked what I saw, others may not. That is why I moved from Greece to USA, for the free choices. Do you know what it is like to be sentenced to death for corrupting youth just for asking questions? Critics are a necessary step to sharpen your skills. My wise friend Solomon said iron sharpens iron. Look at the whole picture determine to do some work and get busy learning and living, I can tell that's what Dwighty is doing.
Dwighty, I read the IM message from Surferchic, and I have to tell you my uplines and sponsor consistently came back at me with similar responses. Worse yet, it seems the more specific questions I ask---to my sponsor--"how are you doing in the business?" I get the answer- "not as well as I will be" They keep telling me I will learn more about the business as I go to more seminars, etc., Yet, as a successful professional in the past, I have a strong desire to UNDERSTAND now. I am getting an uneasy "gut" about this and its only been 2 weeks. Should I run, not walk? I feel uncomfortable, I have already brought several folks in as IBO's but I need specific information and all the sites I've been researching are so divided. Unfortunately, I should have researched beyond the documentation provided by Quixtar. Is there any where I can get objective data or information that also provides me with reasonable answers so I know if I am being snowed???? Help! Best Regards
I was just brought to one of these seminars in NY, what a scam. the speaker was amazing. he spoke with such a smooth flow and was very commical, but i saw right through him. i think my "sponsor" doesnt realize what he got into because english is his second language. is it my responsibility to bring this to his attention?
The business is not a scam. The organization you associate with may very wel be. Do some research. If you want to be in the business, get your homework done and be careful. The business can work for you, but only if you play smart.
So dwighty, tell me then, if you so convincingly managed to show us that Surfer Chic couldn't explain how it wasn't a pyramid, how are you comfortable getting involved with a pyramid scheme?
I eagerly await your reply... :)
Funky
Well, it's not a pyramid scheme in any immoral sense of the word. It's certainly not too far out of the classic corporate pyramid scheme, but it's no ponzi either.
Most people say "pyramid" like it's a bad word because they've been taught that it is a bad word, yet they have no clue why. This chick had no idea what I was talking about and if I were an average skeptic asking the question, neither would I.
Quixtar is no more a pyramid than your local Subway restaurant, and since I have no problem with Subway, I have no problem with Quixtar. But because I have an opportunity with Quixtar to make more than I ever could at Subway, I choose Quixtar. Does that answer your question?
Sort of and sort of not. Hope you're not skirting the issue :) (sound familiar?). I mean, it's not an immoral pyramid, but not too far off a corporate pyramid... so yes, or no?! I guess people think 'pyramid' as being a bad word because like you said to Surfer Chic, the people at the top always make the most and the people underneath them don't get any benefits of their work (as in your example A, B and C).
The other difference between Subway and Quixstar is that at Subway, if I say, hey, I've got a mate who wants a job here, I don't get paid commission for introducing him to Subway - like you get the follow on for recruiting someone to the Quixstar site. Make sense? I also don't make any money on his sales, though he might get people to order more than me. Not quite the same I guess.
I also read somewhere on another site that if everybody in the business sponsored 10 people, by about the tenth generation that would be more people than the current world population. Won't the pyramid ever run out?
Don't mean to ask so many questions, just checking it out... you are being very helpful!
Cheers
Yeah and if everyone witnessed to 10 people each and they all became Christians we would evangelize the world. We have been at it for 2000 years and we are over 1/3 of the world is professed Christians. You can't saturate laziness.
I'm going to address each issue as they come in your message, and no I'm not skirting any issue. You just weren't being too terribly specific, which isn't your fault.
"I mean, it's not an immoral pyramid, but not too far off a corporate pyramid... so yes, or no?!"
There's really no such thing as a "corporate pyramid scheme" other than mantra. That being, there's no official term for it other than "classic corporate structure." That being said, though Quixtar is very similar, it's not the same. There are a few key differences and I might cover them in this post depending on what you're asking.
"I guess people think 'pyramid' as being a bad word because like you said to Surfer Chic, the people at the top always make the most and the people underneath them don't get any benefits of their work (as in your example A, B and C)."
Right. And there is where she made the mistake of not pointing out the people below can make more money than people above. In the classic corporate structure, the guy on top always makes the money. In Quixtar's structure, with the exception of Quixtar itself (though arguably Quixtar doesn't count as an IBO anyway), someone in the middle of a leg can concievably make more money than someone at the very top. That's just the way the system was designed. I could go into it, but if you want me to, e-mail me and I'll respond with how that all works out.
"The other difference between Subway and Quixstar is that at Subway, if I say, hey, I've got a mate who wants a job here, I don't get paid commission for introducing him to Subway - like you get the follow on for recruiting someone to the Quixstar site."
Two issues here. First of all, I do not make any money just by recruiting someone on. I make money when products are pushed through my business. This means if my downline or I purchase something or sell something from the site, I get a commission from it. That's all volume. It has very little to do with the recruiting side. I have recruited a lot of people into my group and made no money from it. Then I make sales and they make sales and I make money because products are pushed.
Secondly, there are many corporations that pay commission on sales. Sure, Subway isn't one of them, but JC Penny is, I know for a fact. If you'd like, we can substitute JC Penny for Subway, if that helps the comparison any.
"I also don't make any money on his sales, though he might get people to order more than me. Not quite the same I guess."
You're absolutely right. I work with close ties to an administration council at a corporation and they let me sit in on many business meetings and answer any questions I have. What business analists call this type of "pyramid scheme" is "small pyramid" meaning that the pyramid does not rise too high. There are typically only two levels to the structure in regards to making money in the case you've presented. The CEO and everybody below that. Nobody has a leg but the CEO and the CEO has everybody in seperate legs. Every sale that everyone makes, he gets a cut of and so do they in the form of their pay check. Arguably, however, you could say that the managers make money from the sales of their employees because if their employees don't sell, they get fired and - of course - make no money. However, if they do sell, they keep their job and make money. But that's merely semantics and makes the corporate small pyramid scheme look incredibly less attractive than the average Joe would like.
"I also read somewhere on another site that if everybody in the business sponsored 10 people, by about the tenth generation that would be more people than the current world population. Won't the pyramid ever run out?"
If the world were based on strictly numbers, yes. If everybody in the world signed up, absolutely. But the same is applied to everything. If everybody up and started their own Wal-Mart chain and called it something different, nobody would shop anywhere but their own place and the consumer market would be empty. Everyone would lose. The answer is simple. Not everybody is going to start up their own supermarket, just like not everyone will sign up in Quixtar. The Consumer market survives on this very fact. People are lazy and would rather pay for something than do it themself. However, if everyone was paying everyone then there would be no jobs because nobody would be working. Confusing? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly shoots down the saturation arguement which is why not very many people in the know-how argue the point. You'll be hard pressed to find a successful business CEO ever arguing market saturation because they understand consumerism mentality. That being said, you don't argue against it, either. "That's bad for business." Let the people believe what they want. After all, someone who doesn't own a Wal-Mart is shopping at a Wal-Mart (or K-Mart, or Target, or CostCo, it doesn't matter)
Hope that helps some.
Dwighty you are a prophet!
To Dwighty or anyone else who is or has been involved with Quixtar:
Have you tried using prospecting websites like the one SurferChic posted (www.up2datemarketing.com)? If so, how effective are they? I need some honest opinions. Thanks!
are you still in the business??, and if you are have you been making any profits off of it?
just a little curious, someone has prospected me and i just want to make sure this is legit before i jump in
Yes, Quixstar is a scam and let you tell me why, I have a friend who is 60 years old and disabled from arthristis and is on a fixed income...She got scammed into this nonsense by buying starter kit, tapes and books...They were all automatic deductions from her checking account....Her rent is 585 per month leaving her only a couple of hundred to eat and survive on... She was told she needed to buy all her food, everything from this org...well lo and behold..a few months down the road...deductions from her account began taking a toll...When it was realized by her that she could not live like this... and asked to halt all monthly deductions, they ignored and refused to do so, shortly thereafter she could not pay her rent and found herself a homeless lady on the street...her sponser still refused to do anything...I cannot forgive taking advantage of an elderly disabled person to the stage of homelessness.....After months and an intervention... closing her accounts, she was finally able to get enough money together for deposit and rent... and now her sponser is after her again to start her deductions again.....Sorry this is outrageous...Stay away from this scam whatever you do ....
Even thouh you are wide enough and your group generates 1000PV, you won't get paid if you don't satisfy the member client rule 1. $100 client purchase or 2. 10 Client orders or 3. 50 PV Client order.
For those who are new or confused I give you this advice. DO NOT get sucked into the business team hype. My husband and I did and all you will get is the runaround.
After a serious betrayal of trust we decided to do retail only and actually make a profit. Amway/Quixtar was founded to make money from RETAIL, not from books, tapes, CD's, functions, meetings, etc. All of the money you put into tools goes into the pockets of your platinums and above, not back into the team. It pays for their lavish lifestyles and such. The only money they should be making is from your PV, NOT from tools. If you have any doubts, ask your platinum. I did and asked to see income figures and he almost threw me and my husband out of his house for even suggesting such a thing. If they have nothing to hide, they will show you their Quixtar income.
It is sad, really, to see people actually in self delusion. I find it amusing that people can feed of others filth and actually consume their own vomit at the same time. To live a life constantly seeing people as dollar signs, is no way to live. Notice, everyone, the people that started Amway were EXPERTS in psychology and persuasive speaking. NOTICE, everyone, that quixtar was born from the ashes of EX-Amway employees. Overall, I find this "exercise" particularly amusing and for my personal reading entertainment. If you are satisfied "helping" people be "FREE" from their financial burdens and turn them into mind numbing, droning, money consuming, caring not for others than the business, conversationalists, by all means have at it. I, on the other hand, just like to watch and occasionally comment because I like the reactions I can get from people. Please do your best to try and "convert" me so that I can delude myself into "helping" people .
ROFL!!!
Oh, Dwighty, you truly are a gem.........
I haven't had such a good laugh in a while. Great way to string her along and then WHAMMO.....pie in the puss (old term for face).
I loved it. You are a good schmoozer. :-)
She's a true new QuixDrone. She was good at avoiding the difficult areas, and played confused well. This is not to say that she was not confused, she may very well have been a bit fuzzy. :-)
Your poking holes in her was good to see, but I am not grinning in an evil way rather in a knowing way. I've been there - her shoes - and - your shoes - before.
Thanks for the contribution.
C
Posted by: IBuyOnly - aka Clifford | March 25, 2004 2:27 AM