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February 12, 2004
The "Amway Lawyer" phone call
By QBlog in
I got a phone call last night from a guy claiming to be attorney Brad E. Harrigan of Brinks, Hofer, Gilson & Lione. He said he was representing Amway but since the call interrupted my dinner I took a message and promised to call him back.
So, this afternoon I dialed up the number and talked to "Brad." Basically "Brad" wanted to know who gave me The Blakey Report. According to "Brad" it's some sort of sealed document or something.
Anyway, I recorded our telephone conversation and have posted it here for your listening pleasure. It's an mp3 and around 12.5 minutes long.
» "Phone Conversation With An Alleged Amway Lawyer"
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Comments
OoooOOOoooh, better watch it before Brad opens up a can of "appropriate" on your a**. Just how "messy" does he think you think he can make it for you? What I was wondering, why was he saying "Amway" instead of "Alticor"?
Too bad for them the cat's out of the bag; I bet there are copies of that pdf and mp3 on a few drives here & there... I like the taping law where I live. As long as one party is aware of it the other doesn't even need to be informed (I've had occasion to find this out)
I am having trouble seeing how this report ever could be subject to a protective order. After all, it's just somebody's opinions.
Are Blakey's opinions trade secrets? That's clearly absurd. There's no trade secret information in the report. There is no proprietary information. There is no internal data, sales data or information or anything else that is unique to Amway or of value to its competitors.
Is the report confidential? That's even more absurd. Blakey appears to have been the expert for the opposing side in litigation! He has no fiduciary relationship to Amway that would make his report confidential (such as Amway's own attorneys and consulting experts would).
So what the heck is Brad saying? He is saying that there is some court order out there that would prohibit Prof. Blakey from expressing these opionions in a public forum even though his report contains no trade secrets or confidential or proprietary information. That would be "prior restraint" on speech and unconstitutional under the First Amendment.
This is the worst kind of bullying. It really makes me angry when lawyers who don't know what they are talking about start pushing private citizens around and threatening to abuse them through what would be an improper and bad faith use of the judicial system. It violates the Rules of Professional Conduct and reflects poorly on the profession.
mess·y
adj. mess·i·er, mess·i·est
- Disorderly and dirty: a messy bedroom.
- Exhibiting or demonstrating carelessness: messy reasoning.
- Unpleasantly difficult to settle or resolve: a messy court case.
Well damn Mr. Webster, where were you yesterday when I needed you? Sheesh. Never around anymore. I need a Dwighty I can count on in those "messy" situations when I need a definition pronto. Will you be available for my next recorded phone call?
I should! I saw that you called but I wasn't sure if it was from earlier or not. My cell doesn't keep dates of missed calls. :-/
Explain me this!Alticor and Amwey is the
criminal organizacion and they want to
cheat the people around the world?
yeah that's pretty much hitting the nail on the head.
i was recently interested in quixtar, but i couldn't get over how much money was involved to start. i went to a couple of conventions out in california and i paid for them both. those conventions cost almost $700. i didn't understand where the money went. i noticed that all of the people in quixtar already had money. one gentleman was a real estate agent and another one owned a chain of fitness centers. another guy was a doctor. i guess my question is, is quixtar a scam?
I am very disappointed.
I listened to most of the phone conversation. I have to say that if you had talked with me the way you talked with that person claiming to be the lawyer, you would have provoked me. You can say what you like, but the fact is that your tone and mannerisms were completely contentious. You tried to put words into his mouth. You asked him a completely unrelated question MERELY to aggravate the situation ... and you succeeded.
I expected to hear a conversation between two civilized men. I only heard one civilized man (alleged lawyer) and one man who was clearly trying to irritate and provoke (you).
Buuuuurp. Your website sucks!
Well Mr. Blow, I see yours is a MUCH better Web site... oh wait, you don't have one. My bad.
It's always nice to get criticisms from anonymous people like you. Such opinions are highly valued.
I was involved in Amway under the Bill Britt
organization over 23 years ago. I knew within 6 months the only way to make it was to sign other people up to buy the tapes, go to the meetings so the upline
could make the real money. Saw the article on Nightline. When I first saw it come on,knew it was Amway, however, Quixtar is just another name to get some poor person to make the ones like Billy boy rich.
regardless of whether or not this guy is an attorney, why not just answer the damn question instead of quibbling over annalogies and word definitions.
i can understand why you wouldn't want to be perfectly polite with this guy but why try and make him explain the word 'messy' that's just riddiculus.
All you had to say was, 'I am not releasing that information to you at this time. If you want to take this matter up with the courts, fine, but untill then i am not going to tell you what you're looking for.'
that's it, conversation over
Ha, student. You're funny. Are you studying to be a clown? I can't wait to see you at the circus. Maybe you can go with some of those poor wittle lawyers who get bullied on the tewwephone.
Actually, i'm a double major, pre-medicine and pre-law. But people do find me funny a lot.
But what i find hilarious, and sad, is that you post a site and plaster all over it that it's a place to share ideas and express opinions, and you don't seem to cope with anyone's unless they mimic your own. Even worse is that you regress to childish antics and demean people with a different opinion.
All i said was that you didn't have to be so uncooperative, but you HAD to take it personally.
Reacting like that to comments like those made by Joe Blow is one thing, but i never insulted why do feel the need to insult me.
As such i hope others who come accross your site will realize that this is not an open forum for idea sharing as you claim it to be
Ha. So you're all done with clown school? That's cool. Bigger and better things, I gotcha. You're right, this is not an open forum for ideas. This is a closed forum where all contrary ideas are removed. Keep in mind, I'm a sick, bitter loser with no life, no job, no friends and nobody to hold me at night. I get my kicks from running this Nazi-regime of a Web site where only my opinion is expressed and where I lash out like a rabid dog at people who disagree because I have such a fragile ego.
By the way, I happen to own a multi-billion dollar International computer consulting business with a workforce of over 500 professionals... and I went to clown school too!!!
Financial Standings have nothing to do with the kind of person you are and how you treat strangers.
I'd think the people who created such scams as Quixtar and BWW and Amwey proved that.
I'm a horrible person. Deal with it.
Amway has worked fine for me.
I have Been an IBO with the Australian
business for 4 years. It now pays better than my JOB does and income keeps going up. Yes there were struggles, but in my opion anything worthwhile in life like financial freedom is worth struugling for.
I am proud to be associated with a company that is the principal sponsor of the childrens cancer fund in Aust, also Its IBO's are the biggest sponsor of world vision.
My findings have been that peoples negative experiences have to do with people that have appoached them unprofessionally and not the corporation. Keep in mind that (ANYONE) can join.
I would'nt want to do network marketing with any other company but Amway period.
I don't profess to know much about all these sealed order laws but I do know a red herring when I hear one. I think the whole conversation with "brad" sounds wierd. This sounded like a fishing expedition by some one who really wasn't aware of what he was talking about. If he was an attorney, I wouldn't want him defending me and if he wasn't an attorney, it sounds like someone is worried. Makes you wonder, doesn't it
Hey Q-blog, as an addition to my prior posting I would like to add that I was a former distributor who ran across these "negative" sites as my upline likes to call them because I got a call from my upline "telling" me to stay away from these sites because you are all dream stealing pathetic "losers" who will never amount to anything. I guess that makes me one of the boys. Looking at your comments and quips with "student" it sounds like you have a good way of looking at things. Keep having fun and thanks for some info that saved me a ton of cash and headaches.
just wondering if you were ever given a court order on this as the attorney said they were prepared to do?
"just wondering if you were ever given a court order on this as the attorney said they were prepared to do?"
Great question J and the answer is No. I received a letter from their lawyer in Texas asking for some info and responded and then haven't heard a peep from them since. Not a single court order so far.
quixtar and amway are total scams... all they do is bug you harass you and threaten you and much more..
dont fall for their trap...it is not what it looks like..
Thank you for putting up this website. I was recently approached by a recruiter, and upon seeing your website and many others -I have decided that I wouldn't want to be involved with a company like that. With all the negative publicity and rumours about Quixtar..it does make you wonder.
Thank you again for making us aware and no matter what other people say...YOU'RE a HERO!
hey guys...this forum is so funny...i dont even know why i was wasting time reading all that and why i am writing this...the fact is, i joined quixtar 6 months back...read all kinda forums like this but still decided to give it a shot because i liked the people..they were all so hard working and all had wonderful work-ethics...6 months down now, am an EAGLE in the business and making around $450.00 a month...Now guys pls i am not trying to argue with anyone here and everyone has their own opinions...but yes i have worked hard to be here...i have certainly changed as a person...i got promoted recently in my job because my work ethics have completely changed now...one thing for sure guys...these guys might sound and act crazy at times, but they are fighters in life..they dont waste time on television and beer at nights...they try to do something better with their lives and i dont think anyone should put this down...its great what they are doing....i may or may not make a lot of money in quixtar in the future, but i know for a fact that i have a bunch of fighter friends today who will stand up for me during thick and thin.
Any new developments with this? Were you compelled by the Court to reveal your source, or was "Brad" bluffing?
"Phone Conversation With An Alleged Amway Lawyer" Whoevereyou bloger are...you are just funny. I can record 100s of such conversation. How stupid can you be and fool people with such fake conversation. An corporation like Amway will not waste their 12:29 mins on such a fool like you. Each attorney for Amway costs them $1000s for an hour. Why would anyone spend time on a fool like you.
And people who believe would believe the movie matrix, or believe 'SUPERMAN'. Go crazy selling this stupid idea of phone conversations to kids. And for havens GROW UP
Amway is real mess. They failed in the States and they're here in Eastern Europe now trying to fool people. I am from Moldova and you don't emagine how easy it is for them to wind people round their finger. They speculate on poverty. You should see their apartments and cars, while the ones who do the donkey work live increasingly in poverty
Question: Why didn't the court call you since it was allegedlly their order that was alledgedly violated? Also, nice touch using the clinton rope-a-dope definition game/
I agree with a lot that has been said. I have been involved in Quixtar for almost two years now. I thought they were all my friends and listened to everything they said. I am no longer involved but my wife is. They are pushing her further away. They talk about divorce, they cause it! My wife is part of the Weir team. I stopped because they gave me horrible financial advise and cost me 35,000. Anyone who was in knows that "core" is about 700 more than any normal human being spends in a month. And you still need food! I was unable to pay for living and Quixtar. As soon as I said I needed to cut back everyone upline snached my wife and kept her in. She is not home 6/7 nights. She says she wants to be free but she already spends more than she makes, if she just quit she could stay home. As for selling to others I know that they promote you "self-reporting" your sales. This means that they do not actually sell something but they say that they do. As far as them being fighters, you are right. They fight for themselves that is all. As soon as you show that your life is a priority and you have to pay some bills they will stop talking to you. This goes all the way to the top too. I've taken a personal tour of Doug and Amie Weir's home, with Amie as our tour guide. No one talks to us anymore. That all stopped the day the "awesome young couple" stopped doing 700PV a month. They have changed my life, for the worst. My wife has never been so miserable. There is no way the government can let this go on. Just remember Alticor is being nice by giving donations and hospitals but if they couldn't write it off they wouldn't ever do it. Don't fool yourself. And for those of you doing Quixtar, do some research by actually calling the corporate office and asking for some information, they have to give it to you, and do some rough division. I did rounding (cutting a cool million people) from the number of millionaires out there and you have a .001% chance of doing that with Quixtar and a 3.1% chance working a job. And talk about being free. I followed Doug Weir and Bob Barto for weeks and kept track of their schedules. For Doug he works 9,000 more hours than I do and Bob works 13,000 more than I do. Now they both make good money but I would not want their schedules. These are a Diamnod and a Emerald. You can take your income and schedule. I'm already more free than you!
Wow. This is absolutely ridiculous. I was interested in hearing what the lawyer had to say, but I found nothing wrong. By the way, what proof do you want him to produce over the phone? Are you using a video phone? Didn't think so. As much as you said the phrase "I understand". Why wasn't this a 30 second phone call? Do you not understand the fact that your were not cooperating? Wow it bugs me that types of people in this world. You are one of them. The phone taping...no big deal...happens all the time. But to give this the runaround like you did was a bit too much. Sounds to me like the only reason why you drug this conversation on to 12 minutes was because you were scared about the court taking action. Were you afraid to admit that you did not want to cooperate? Ya know it is times like this that I wish there was a magic wand available. What does the wand do? Oh I don't know, maybe reject all sperm on people like you from reproducing. It scares me to know that people like you are reproducing into the general population. Well I guess the world does need a sufficient amount of janitors.
I have been a faithful reader of this site for two years and have no use for Amway, its people, products, or philosophy. Put together the terms "Amway" and "lawyer" and I cringe at what form of sub-species populates those offices.
I was disappointed at what I heard. I agree you were under no obligation to tell him where you received your information, but I was actually sympathetic towards the lawyer. He was just doing his job and sounded like he was trying to make it as painless as possible. As I listened I kept asking "Why are you lowering yourself and this conversation to a grade school level?" I was expecting you blurt out "Nah nah nah nah poo poo" at the very end.
Yes he was is Amway (making him scum) and a lawyer (double scum), but I really felt you could have responded better.
The Blakely Report is completely mis-leading. It claims that quixtar and quixtar distributors are involved in doing illegal stuff. So...what do we do that is illegal? We have very high standards comparing to many corporate businesses. This business has changed the way I live my life completely and all for the better. I love Quixtar.
I agree with the last statement made. What company that has a seal of a pproval by the BBB and is highly regarded by other business rating companies is aimed towards using people? You are right, every business must have an onwerm this is true. But quixtar has the only business where the owner doesnt have to make more than the "new employee" or business owner. Does the owner or person that hired you at your company make more than you people? OH really? That sux, it's not controlled that way at quixtar. If you think they make money because you buy tapes/cd's and go to meetings then you are a complete idiot. Go take some college courses and learn about how Ray Crock made so much money with Mcdonalds and how Sam Walton made so much with Walmart and sort of combine the ideas. Thats basically what quixtar does, it capatilizes on the fact the much money can be made by franchising (McD's) by altering product distribution (sam walton) through using the internet. If you were ever in the quixtar business and left it and are bitter about it now it is only your own fault cuz you didnt have the balls to learn what you need to learn in this country to be a business owner. You just dont have what it takes. Good luck finding someone else that will do anything even close to what your upline would do for you and your life in this world. You wont find it. Happy working days til you are 70;)
I joined quixtar coming up on a month ago. As far as spending money to join, I did. It was an investment to start my own "company" and franchise it out. If any of you were to start your own small business, the initial investment necessary would be much greater. Real Estate, a building, employees, overhead, theft, insurance, and numerous fees for starting one. That doesn't count the fact that your chance of succeeding is minimal at best. Open your own burger store next to a McDonald's and see who goes out of business first. In this first month of being an IBO, I've made back my initial investment (which is also a tax write off) and am on track to make much more. Financial freedom and a beautiful retirement at the age of 24 is going to be sweet.
I realize that this comment is 2 years after the initial post by Disgruntled, but I'm wondering if he literally calculated that Doug Weir works 9,000 more hours than he does and Bob Barto works 13,000 more hours. Because, in the mind of an IBO, that is very possible with the time compounding factors involved with working with a business system. But for a non- IBO, 13,000 extra hours (or even 9,000) would be quite impressive considering there are only 8,760 hours in a year (or 8784 in leap year). I'm assuming you have a full time job [40hrs x 52 wks = 2080 hrs at work], so your 2080 + Doug's 9000 would mean that somehow, the IBO community is privied to some extra or longer days, in which case, everyone should still get in because they can live longer more fulfilling lives. So, I guess your numbers are right on.
Honestly, I Believe most you are very Stupid, and I say that with all do respect... Quixtar is a ligitamate business and I have the checks to prove it. Its simple but takes a little bit of WORK, and i know thats something all of you LAZY people hate to hear! I have made over $400 in this business this month and its only my 2nd full month in the business.. The start up cost was only $175.. I'm not a doctor or an engineer, I'm a broke college student. So my question is this: How much did you make in the business?? AND Are you a lazy @$$?? I do believe that as long as you are reading books like "The 7 Greatest Lies" you will only make as much money as that kind of book lets you, which will result in you being broke. And something that has been learned to be commen sense is this "Don't look at how something is NOT going to work, look at how something IS going to work." Because if all you look at is how to make it fail, when it comes time to apply what you know about making something work, all you will know how to do is FAIL because you have no knowlege on how to SUCCEED. And this concept applies to anything in life really. For example: If you're taking a test and all you know is how to fail that test, how do you ever expect to make it work and to pass that test?? The business plan for Quixtar is simple, not easy. Nothing is easy. Get over yourselves.
Really, I guess the reason I am posting this message is to help some of you out there who cannot make an informed desion on your own and who need to turn to silly forms like this one.. (Yea I know, I'm Here too) But I'm telling you to go out and make an informed and educated desion on your own. Do you really believe everything you read ont the web? The internet is the "Bathroom Wall" of society these days.. So please, I request of you: Be smart and Be free.. I'll See The Rest Of You In Diamond Club. =)
-Tony
p.s. --->> http://peterisland.com/
;)
I also wanted to add that I think it's funny reading all of your comments like "ITS A SCAM!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVESS!!!" Haha, thats too funny.. But also sad that you can tell that someone may have had a bad experience with a certan part of the business and they rub off on other good people that could have been successful, but they were shot down by negative people.. Remember this: A critic has NEVER been remembered, But the Great ones are always the ones that were shot down by the critics (Enstine, Edison, Lincon, The Wright Brothers).. So I say, Go ahead, shoot me down, I will lay MY foundation with the bricks you throw at me.. =)
-Thanks
ps. Anyone out there in LTD?
Doug Weir is my cousin. I know him as a person and he is kind, generous and motivated. He tried to get me started in this business in the early 90's and he has soared. I am sorry about the fella with his wife. I can see how your wife may be hiding from the negative reality of being in financial difficulty by surrounding herself with the powerful energy that hopeful futures bring. Please don't blame others for her attraction to positive. I will pray for you and your wife. Please give Doug a chance to hear your concerns. But blaming is really emotionally triggered. It is like the woman who beats up the mistress. Your wife is in denial and possibly is blaming you. Get some help. Don't lash out at the very people who may be your aid. Seriously, Doug and Aimie are good people. Fight for her with love!
Hey QBlog,
I have listened to the telephone recording and what I can say is that the lawyer was too overly patient with you. You were not cooperating and very rude. You obviously are a pervert. A smart pervert.
You see, I come from Romania, Europe. If I met you and you were to give me such an attitude as you did with this person, rest assured that I am not as patient an individual towards people like you as this person was. I would break your teeth and render your bull face unrecognizable to your mother big guy.
You don't know what "messy" means? Look it up in the dictionary. Even the lawyer told you to. Are you lazy or just more? You like to play the idiot pretending quite a bit. It seems that you need someone to smack some good sense into you. Don't cross my path. That's all I'm telling you.
Hey Tony! I'm in LTD. I really like what they're doing now too.
Wow...interesting conversation. I'm not sure who this guy is. He could be anyone posing to be an attorney. Especially with the content of this report!!! It was interesting that, as an attorney, he would not define or explain the legal action that was possible if you don't cooperate. I would think he'd be required to tell you next steps - particulary if he is alleging you broke some sort of law. "I'm not a liberty to say" is not a legal answer. And 'messy' was indeed an interesting choice of words....Please keep us posted on developments!
Posted by: Disenchanted IBO | February 13, 2004 3:04 PM