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January 14, 2004
Team of Destiny, Quixtar and Orrin Woodward
By QBlog in
I've been meaning to say something about the Orrin Woodward site for several weeks but just haven't made the time to sit down and collect my thoughts until now. For those unfamiliar with Orrin, he's the Quixtar Diamond at the top of the Team of Destiny Quixtar group.
When visiting Orrin's site my first reaction was "yuck." I simply can't understand how someone with his apparent resources could approve of publishing such a horrible looking site. Maybe the real purpose of the site isn't to disseminate information but to exploit search engine placement by cross-linking to other TOD member sites? Could that explain why every mention of Team of Destiny is linked to the TOD site? On the Orrin Woodward home page alone I count 9 instances where Team of Destiny is both mentioned and linked. Talk about overkill! We get the point! I think we figured out how to get to the Team of Destiny site after the first three or four links. Maybe dude has some sort of link fetish? It could happen.
Popcorn
The Orrin site is basically comprised of four "articles" plus a links page. The "articles" are titled:
The "Business Within a Business" page seems to compare Quixtar (or Team of Destiny) to a movie theater and compares the "tools and training" to movie theater concessions.
The apparent intent of the "article" is to offer some sort of justification for TOD tools and training costs by demonstrating that society accepts overpriced popcorn sold to a captive audience at movie theaters. I'm not sure if I get this comparison because I personally avoid movie theater concessions whenever possible simply because they're so overpriced. I feel like I'm being mugged every time I buy a $5 soda. Why would Orrin want to associate that negative experience with his TOD business? Maybe I missed something? Who knows. His second example using Michael Jordan makes much more sense because everyone loves Michael Jordan. Everyone does not like movie theater popcorn prices.
How the Money Works
The "How the Money Works page is probably the most confusing of the four. Orrin explains that TOD has a primary business (Quixtar) and a secondary business (tools, tapes, seminars and speaking) and compares this business model to that of an auto dealership. The comparison makes a certain amount of sense but ultimately breaks down under scrutiny.
The problem with the comparison is that selling parts, services and used cars is quite different than selling tapes, tickets and tools. One revenue source (the cars, parts and service) has a specific and measurable market value. The other (the tools, tapes and seminars) has a value that is much more difficult to pin down. The value of TOD's secondary revenue source can vary greatly from one individual to the next. However, in addition to the questionable value of the TOD "products" is the fact that such "products" can only be "sold" within the closed TOD system. While their value is hard to measure within TOD, it's easy to measure outside TOD: virtually worthless.
The Residual Income
Another interesting aspect of "How the Money Works" is that the entire secondary revenue source involves some amount of labor. Those who profit must speak at functions, organize and sell tickets to events and put together motivational and training material. Where is the residual income we've heard so much about? The graph on the page points out that such secondary income is part of the "B" quadrant but it seems more like "S" to me. You don't speak at a function, you don't get paid. You don't organize an event, you don't get paid. How is that residual? Maybe someone will explain that to me.
The TOD Club
Personalities are funny things. We get along great with some while others can royally piss us off. Every large business is full of diverse personalities and I imagine that TOD is not immune from this fact of life. And if TOD experiences this reality of occasional personality conflicts then I wonder what might happen if some "rising star" conflicts with Orrin or others at the top of the business? Would such an individual suddenly find himself (or herself) pushed out of the TOD speaking circuit? Surely such a scenario is conceivable. And if so then how is "rising star" supposed to cash in on the secondary income? Form a new group? Shop around to other groups? I don't know but whenever your revenue comes from a closed system it's hard to maintain that revenue if you've fallen out of favor with those who make the decisions. Just ask those actors and writers who found their names on McCarthy-era black lists.
Conclusion
To sum this all up I'm frankly just a bit confused by Orrin Woodward. Does his site really help pitch his business? Do visitors read his "articles" and think, "Wow, this TOD is for me baby"? I don't know. I just know that after I visited my only response was, "TOD is the Tony Robbins flavor of Quixtar!"
Comments
You do realize that the analogy would have the same message, yes?
Yes ;o)
If you would like more interesting reading about the "Business within a Business", former Diamond, Bo Short has allowed me to post his comments on the subject at www.mlmblog.net
Generally, people who are jealous of those who have attained success will grumble and resort to talking badly about them. What is wrong with buying from yourself? Do you think Sam Walton built up his empire then did all his shopping at K-Mart? The analogy of McDonald's is that it's a success in spite of the lousy hamburgers (which I NEVER eat). The whole point is that it has a SYSTEM that works. Anyone with more than a high school education would understand that. Bottom line...for a person to be a success, they have to WORK. You can choose the 45 year plan or you can find a better alternative. If you choose the old way, don't be mad at the people who are doing things differently and becoming successful as a result.
There is nothing wrong from buying from yourself, anon. The problem lies in when you are your only customer, which the buy from yourself and teach others to do so system is. It's called an illegal pyramid, and a person will only make money if he has an exponentially larger group of people below him who are losing money. And this is not me grumbling, but mathematical fact. The system does not work. It is fatally flawed.
If all the diamonds in the Quixtar business had the integrity of an Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady or Tim Marks, there would be no need for sites like this. The Team of Destiny is going to bring morality and integrity back to this country. Keep complaining and criticizing while the Team of Destiny keeps changing this country for the better, one household at a time.
I'm desperately trying to get some real information-good or bad on this TOD thing. Most people who post negative info will not post their name. Who is posting this site? The other negative sites are run by a former Quixtar IBO who has now started his own mlm business? Bo Short definitely has a good reason to dis the TOD-he's promoting his business!
This is site contains the opinions of just ONE ANONYMOUS man. How sad.
Be careful whose opinions you listen to... they might be broke.
Get the information... study it... trust your own judgement.... if people give you negative... ask them for their plan for success.... it usually gets kinda quiet.
Have fun guys.... gotta go build a business!! Hmmm.. I don't speak at functions... yet the cheques keep coming, and coming, and coming....
As an I.T. specialist working as a programmer/analyst I looked at the TOD business model from a purely logical standpoint, and how the team concept works. There is no better business model out there that exploits the I-commerce model better than TOD. It also locks in a business ethic that doesnt permit the ability to hold down anyone from being more succesful than the person above them. It truly will be the MCDonalds of the Internet as for success of the individual IBO. The monthly checks speak for themselves. Money talks.. I have been involved with it for 90 days already got back more than half of my original investment and my down line has 600% growth rate.
Nice Web site Robert:
http://www.sssco.net
http://www.sssco.net/COMPANY/HTML/contact_us.htm
I have been in the business for 12 months and am friends with an attorney at the attorney general in my state. He said the quixtar business is the model they use in analyzing other multi-level. In 12 month with the TOD I am a fully qualified platinum on my way to Sapphire qualification. I make more money in this business than I did after 5 years as an accountant.
My friend and her boyfriend are in Team of Destiny and I do not see anything positive about it. They are not at all successful in this business and are actually failing terribly!! I believe that he has been in the business since 2000 and have been struggling ever since. They can hardly afford to live, but they continue to pour their time and money into a business that says that it is teaching morals and will "change the country", but it is doing no such thing. I am not jealous of their success, I am actually saddened by their belief that this is going to turn around and they will be able to retire in a "few years" (his words). I would be happy to see their success, but it is not going to happen.
Her boyfriend tried to get me into the business, but got horribly upset when I didn't believe his pitches. I am not against MLM businesses. I am in Passion Parties, which is a MLM business, but I don't believe that I will become horrible rich with this. I also know it is easier to see what I offer, a product, than what Team of Destiny sells, a dream of becoming rich through passive residual income!!
Why do you say their success is not going to happen. I got started in 1999 and it took me three years to reach platinum. That was because I was extremely shy and wouldn't talk to people. I kept reading and changing until I developed the confidence to win. I am glad my close friends that did not get in the business kept encouraging me by being members and clients. They didn't tell me I had no chance. Heidi I think you need to apologize to your friends and encourage them in whatever they choose to pursue - just as I encourage you in your business. I am now making over 4,000 dollars a month and have received a return on all of my tapes and books I have bought. I wish you well Heidi and you should wish your friends well.
I would really like to know how this TOD deal works. I just signed on a couple of days ago after attending one of the weekly meetings. They spin a good tale, but never really talk about what they do. The investment doesn't bother me, because I will never buy any of the tapes or other propaganda until I know what this organization does. I'm all for checks rolling in, but I want to know that I am working for it. Going to a weekly meeting and to a monthly men's leadership isn't working for your money. I'm truly confused and would like some answers to the legitimacy of this organization.
The prices at Costco are far cheaper than anything I have found through Amway. The comparisons Quixtar/Amway does are on BRAND NAME products with smaller portions. Meanwhile, Quixtar/Team of Destiny/Amway procures for consumers GENERIC products for HIGHER PRICES. Anyone who has majored in economics can surely figure out that you would have to be retarded or a sympathetic relative to buy all but a few items. And say, does anyone else find it scary that these people are espousing a Fundamentalist Christian dicatorship in place of the planet's wealthiest and most aged representative democracy? Can you imagine what sort of penalties these people would mete out for disobeying their direct interpretation of their scriptures? It would be similar to the Inquisition, or perhaps the Cultural Revolution for those of you who have expanded your brains and/or pocketbooks to the non-honky regions of the world. Piece of advice: TRAIN HARD! Bench 300! Squat 500! Run like the wind blows and twice as long.... Know how to throw a left hook! Learn to use whatever weapons will be necessary when these megamart megalomaniacs either try to take over the country or try to sell you a crappy generic product over a quality generic product like those produced by Sam Walton, Piggly Wiggly, you name it. Generic goods, brand name prices... you guys are fools!
Well here's a nice thought. We have no idea who this person is that posted these negative thoughts. Like the note says above. Be careful who you listen to they mght be broke. Or most people never even realize that hey, they might be a competitor of TOD and want them to fail. No one realizes where the info might be coming from. To the reader, listen to who has the "fruit on the tree" If someone is telling you anything about a subject you need to take a step back and realize where they are coming from. You need to ask yourself, "is this person where I want to be?" If not, then why on earth would you listen to them? Its as simple as that.
T.O.D is a scam! amway of the 2000's people invest your hard earned $$$ into a real biz.. or go to college!!!!
anyone can drive a hummer or a corvette..that does not impress me! Why dont chris and orrin speak about how to make $$$ and stop all the brain wash B.S.
at the childesh pep rally every tuesday.
and who is to say that all the good stuff on this page from all these so called people cashing in 4,000 dollar checks are real? i could say i made 4,001 dollars a month playing video games at home all day, prove that i dont.
chris, orrin i hope you read this and ralize that im a bigger and better man than you punks, because im not out trying to scam people who dont know better. I feal bad that people like you live in my community! grand blanc and davison are much better without you! oh well when the law comes down on you guys you will move to another town and start all over! saginaw is almost dry! so hopefully it wont be long! try iraq i heard its nice this time of year.
TOD is 100% pure bullshit. its just a masked pyramid scheme... it works great if you got in early, but 90% of the people are gonna get royally screwed in the end
All of the negative post you read are coming from one guy who has had a vendetta against quixtar for 7 years. Get a life and quit posing under fake id's. I, Socrates am usually not this hard, but injustices I will not stand for. Athens still owes me an apology for their injustice to me many years ago. I sure do love getting my facts on this informative board. This is no fault of Q-blog - he is legit, but of one deranged boy with nothing better to do.
I would like everybody to know im going by my real name, and I would debate chris,orrin or any other person from t.o.d. just name the place so we can meet up!! I watched my best friend lose everything over this scam!! and I researched it for over a year now.
say no to the cult!!
Eric, do you honestly believe anyone believes your b.s. Lost everything? Eric you have lost the most important thing and that is hope. Without hope all is lost. The Persians at Marathon had thought the Greeks were without hope, but they were wrong.
what i dont understand is why you have to buy the 150.00 worth of products when you sign up personally i think the products stink i know it generates pvs but why not sign up with out buying the products then get on to quixtar and buy what you want cause i could sign up alot more people if that 150.00 was not included
Well. socrates im not speaking the cult b.s. like you wannabe buisness broke ass people are, going around pretending that you are someone, your not!! Im a very hard worker for myself, by myself! And I dont have to dress like 150 other people in the same room to feal like someone!! I dont like to toot my own horn, but you called what im saying B.S.
I dont count on gay ass tapes and cult meatings, or other people to make cash!! I count on myself. If you would like to meet up and discuss this stuff tuff guy, I live in grand blanc.. if you live in the area we can meet up and I would love to prove you, and your red tie wrong!! Ill tell you what, go read scott larsens web page see what you think!! I have researched this junk alot you idiot!! Ill tell you what when we meet up we can compare yearly income.. And dont write back some pussy ass reason why you cant or wont. All you guys do is go around bugging people with you bullshit!! get a life and a real job!! maybe then you can move out of your parents basement. No dont do that after all, at the next meeting you and chris, and orrin and all the other idiots should drink the kool aid and burn the buildong down like in waco.
Whats wrong socrates, are too scared to respond?
Yes Eric that is proper let out your anger. Your relationship with your dad is the source of many frustrations. You can't help your pathetic life so find someone else to blame. If it helps to blame quixtar go ahead they can take it. My bill will be in the mail.
Im doing great thanks, and enough about my dad because I just got off your mom!!!
Yes eric you have a clear case of the Oedipus complex. Your dreams about your mother display your inferiority. These repressed feelings about your dad are coming to the surface. Try to focus on a happy place and imagine that your life actually amounted to something. Eric we are trying to help you please listen.
Why dont you help me by getting your mom off my nutts!!! Oh wait thats Orrin
Yes Eric, keep letting it out. Your interest in phallic genitalia signifies a lack of manhood. Your comments have decreased the worthiness of yourself and this site to an all time low. Keep this up and you will qualify for the Jerry Springer show. Your mom and dad must be so proud of you.
My parents are very proud of me!! I make ohnest money!! I dont scam money off people like your cult leader does to you!! by the way, are we going to meet up and compare yearly income? Please prove me wrong! and then I will appalogize.
Eric, I am proud of you too. A couple of sentences and only one comment that was negative to a fellow human being. I believe you are a good guy and unless you make a comfortable six figures there is no reason for you to meet me. I feel you are making great progress. Have you thought of settling down and getting married? This would help bring more peace into your life - maybe even raise a family. Then you will learn how to encourage and be other people centered. I truly want to help you!
If you made six figures you would be proud and show me!! But you dont! Im not asking you a rude question.. If I was to go buy, say a pizza joint... i would want to know what he (the pizza owner) has made previous years. well when this is pitched nobody wants to show a real check..?? Why? I can tell you why.. because an 8 dollar check is not all that impessive!
Since TOD likes to use other companys for examples, let me give you one..
TOD members drug of choice is books and tapes. Chris and orrin are the dealers..
see you just need help.
Hey figure what you have spent on books, tapes, seminars, gas going to meatings and money on dinners pitching this to others. Now subtract that from you checks!! see you are in the negative. other wise lets meet up, prove me wrong!!
The patient Eric seems to talk about sex, drugs and money. He must be a drug dealer or pimp. I can't wait to do my studies on him perhaps he is the missing link between animals and humans.
Sigmund and Alfred - please break off communication with eric - he has no interest in any facts besides his sex, drugs and paycheck. In a free country he has a right to his opinion and so do others. He wants to force everyone to have his opinion, but he has ruined his credibility. Who would follow a guy like that or even listen to him for that matter? Just wish him well and move on is my advice.
I figuerd you would not show me a check!! You dance around the facts, and you have no proof! why I ask? If I need help then please help me!! Show me the check!! Im calling you out on this one!! I Know its hard realizing that you are living a lie! When i ask you a question, you only come back with a childesh remark. All im asking is to back up your claims... I will!!
Let us meet at 1:00 A.M. tomorrow night at the historic landmark in Grand Blanc that is for sale. I will show you a check and you can apologize. Look forward to meeting you!
I was there and you weren't last night. Let us now go in peace and agree to disagree.
Give me time to recieve the message, what historic landmark? Make it anytime, just give me 24 hours to get your message. By the way tomarrow on april 6 would be april 7.. but nice try!! Why must you be a weasel about this? give me a real time and place. And dont write back, I tried, you did not show up.. Because I know that you are bluffing.. I mean come on, you did not want to meet up, you did not even say what you would be driving.. I will be in a red corvette, or red chevy pick up.. lets make it the pool hall in grand Blanc today, say 11:00.
Eric, I was not bluffing and was there and you were not. I sent the message on April 6th which makes April 7th the next day. You do not have to ask which landmark if you actually lived anywhere close to grand blanc so my point is made. Why do the cons feel the urge to lie and attack and then act so self righteous? Like I said the game is up so give it up and move on. I have more important things to do, I am developing some thoughts on the meaning of envy.
So, what landmark? Im born and raised in grand blanc? And you? you just pulled a fast one on me. Just like TOD did to you. Since you like making a point, and you like to make money, A wager 500.00 on this!! I have it do you?
Eric, I was born in Greece. Have you ever heard of Athens? That is where I grew up, I fought in the battle of Marathon and thought deeply. That is why I can tell BS from a mile away. The problem with you is you can't admit when you have been beaten. Always raising the odds, double or nothing. I told you I had better things to do and your opportunity to meet me is passed. If you were born in grand blanc you would not keep asking silly questions. What is wrong, the internet can't tell you everything?
Do you recruit people? Do you buy tools? Michigan.gov says stay away!! Are they wrong? So whats your real job socrates? Local car wash? Live in your moms house still? ha ha ha Your a joke!! Stop hiding behind a keyboard, prove what you say>> Other wise stop pitching lies, Little orrin wannabe!!
Be careful Socrates, remember when Eric gets mad he will insult your mother, father, or your wife and use sexual innuendo. I've always said you can tell the size of the man by the size of what get him angry.
So, what landmark? See Iprved that you are nutts!! just read your last comment!
I waiting
im waiting
still no reply!!! hes a joke!!
Eric you must audition at once you are cracking us up and by the way can you take a typing class?
I could use a class like that! maybe with all the cash socrates has, he would be kind enough to pay for it.
Still no socrates, Hmmmmmm
Socrates, Please dont drink the kool- aid!
Damn its to late! I tried to save him!!
Well, I cant wait all day! I will be at little joes if want to confront me.
I appreciate organizations that fully disclose all the income streams. Many quixtar organizations are reforming the old system and have implemented changes to pay based on performance in all areas. No pay for pin only results. While some cons may never be happy in a free enterprise system, consumers have the right to buy tapes or not buy tapes. The key is disclosure and consumer protection which the best organizations are doing. Quixtar is following government guidelines and is over a billion dollar company so why all the fuss. Isn't their bigger injustices to cover than buying a tape or book? Let me give you some suggestions, Gambling, Prostitution, or college education - cost vs. worth.
Trying to find out more about Orrin Woodward and his Team of Destiny. The only search results are Team of Destiny, Amquix, and Webraw.
None provide objective third party information and I'm noticing many of the links here do not work. Are there any true qualified outside links that can provide more information?
Thank you for your letter. I too am finding it hard to locate any business information about the Team of Destiny. It sounds good but I want to find out more. I've asked people I know but they haven't heard of it. There is nothing on the computer web. All I find is some opinion articles like the opinion page in the newspaper. The cost is very small, so I think I might try it. If anyone has some real information that there is something wrong with the company I would like to check it out.
Hello Aristotle, good to hear from you again. I don't believe you will ever get a neutral evaluation about a business. People will search for data to confirm their beliefs. The pros write positive about their experiences and the cons write negatives about theirs. I believe that this business is just a reflection on life, the people with hope love this business and the people with fear and envy hate this business. A third group is people who don't care one way or the other. I believe in everyones right to their own opinion. I believe it is only wrong to force either your positive or negative opinion on others. Let them experience the business through their own lense of life. Many have succeeded and many have learned lessons. I choose to get better and some choose to get bitter. Even when the polis of Athens sentenced me I still learned.
The computer world seems to be just opinions. There isn't much for pro or con. I wanted to make sure if there was legal action pending that would jeopardize what I'd be doing. If it was bad they would be prosecuted by the state. As that's not the case, I think I will go ahead. All I have to do is tell people about buying on computer. A lot are already doing it. This one has lots more products.
Aristotle, I am in a different team. Since you are already interested in your team, it would be unprincipled for me to tell about mine. I can say that I am very much aware of your team and I can recommend it well. This is one of the few home-based businesses that actually has a business plan that has proven itself for its people.
Listen up, I am 18 years old and I am apart of TOD. Personally I would not bet my life on this thing. Sure, it makes you build up confidence and what not, but I want to work to earn my money. I feel that since I had an extra $200 or so dollars that I would try this thing. I plan to let it sit through college, but buy the things that I need through it: TV's, shoes, shirts, toilet paper or what not, you know. I am not trying to find me 50PV per month goal, I am in college and I need to preserve my time and money for school. All I am saying is why not pay a little extra money for the things you need if you know you are eventually going to get it back one day.
The way the thing works is to sign people up, right? Becareful of who you spend your time with. Because when you sign people up be sure that they have a few other people who might be interested or you will basically have wasted your time. Think about it, why sign up close to 50 people BY YOURSELF when you can sign up 3 or 4 people whoa do just the same as you and have the number of people beneath you growing exponentially. If and when you sign up be sure that others want to sign people up too. The checks just don't come rolling in by you doing nothing, you have to have a smart head and sign people up who are willing to work for you. It is a TEAM.
I have signed on one of my good freinds who knows a good business oportunity when he sees one; I now have over 20 people beneath me. But on the other hand, I signed up 6 months ago and I havent seen any kind of checks yet. But I don't care. Hopefully I will see some money when I get out of college to help me pay some bills, but that is mainly all I want out of this, maybe some products every now and then. Like I said, I WOULD NOT BASE MY LIFE ON THIS THING, but I am using it to start a new life.
I figured since I already posted a remark that I might as well try and get some others signed up. If you are interested please email me with questions or what not, but be patient as it may take a little while for me to get back to you.
Hey next time you see Orrin ask him why he says he is debt free if he owes 1.7 million dollars on a 2 million dollar condo he mortgaged?
This info is available on the net, through the Michigan State government.
Well Joe, if it's really available on the Web, why didn't you provide a link? Please do this since you claim to have already done this research. In other words, PROVE IT!
Thanks.
There are many different groups that use quixtar to power their home based businesses. The issue isn't who powers it. The real issue is what system is used. The thing that keeps coming to my mind about TOD is that I have only heard of 1 diamond in the TOD system at the top. I don't use TOD's system. I am part of a bigger team that has hundreds and hundreds of diamonds. In fact there is a man going diamond just two up from me. In the team that I plug into someone in your downline can actually go diamond before you. That is as far from a pyramid as you can get. In our system you don't have to stack your business to create volume. It's a business of integrity and stability. I would say if you go 6 months and have 20 people in your downline and never see a check, there's a problem. I was in for 2 weeks, had one person sponsored and had a check in the mail. It's about proper structure not how many people you can get in your business. BTW one more last note, the people on my team are really out of debt. They pay cash for everything including $90,000 cars and several million dollar homes.
Bo Short has nothing better to do than to sit around talkig bad about every one else. Why does he care so much about slamming others? Could it be to feed his pockets by discrediting others so they might join his multilevel business? Hey Bo, mind your own business!
We are X-members of the infamous TOD. Wow. Thank God that's over. We spent years building our business... "chasing the dream!" We had achieved the "platinum" level, Turbo 50 :), and had hundreds of people in our group attending functions. Some unique circumstances opened our eyes to the truth. We spent many hours with the TOD diamonds, Orrin and Laurie Woodward, Chris and Terri Brady, and Tim and Amy Marks. We knew Woodwards when they were emeralds, and Brady's when they were sapphires. What you are saying is valid. There are some serious problems and ethical issues that are being ignored and covered up by the leaders... People are being manipulated and taken advantage of. We feel so strongly about this, that as soon as we are able, we will be refunding all the hundreds of people we sponsored into the business.
I personally believe that what you put into anything determines your outcome. What works for one may not work for another. One person might do very well (great team work, very motivated, etc) whereas another person might not do so well (lack of support, shy, etc.) If you feel that this isn't the business for you then why slam it? You don't have to join. It is a good idea to check TOD (or any business) out before investing money. I did. I see good and bad but I am giving it a try. I wasn't forced but it was a choice. Any of you that are slamming any business can you come up with a profitable business? I would like to see what you have to offer.
I am in this business and quit talking crap about people when you have never heard them speak or tell you what they have done in person this is a great business and if you did goo to a business meeting spending $90 for a seminar and you dont like it you get all your money back no questions asked why dont you actually look into something before you start making dumb comments!!!!!!
Team of Destiny Teaches Taproots instead of Profitability. the Taproot theory only works for the people at the top. A Company like Britt World Wide i hear, teaches profitibility before taprooting.
I am reviewing this TOD article as of June 20, 2005. I know it is a little late in the whole bashing arena of TOD. However, I want to ask you a few questions. Why do you feel the need to look at successful people as scammers especially when they are trying to help other people? In Quixtar, there are many different teams in which leaders have formed a "training system." TOD just happens to split their profits with people as low as Platinums whereas all the other organizations out there make you wait until you are diamond. Also, they have made it possible to lower the cost of going to seminars, staying on their training system and so forth, when in all reality everybody else is getting more expensive. I am a nobody, and will never claim to be somebody, but you have showed your great ignorance. A very wise man once said, "You can be skeptical, and you can be poor, but if you are both poor and skeptical, you're just an idiot." Orrin Woodward has the results that many people are looking for. He has great Family values and he is helping others attain the levels that they want to reach. Yes, it takes hard work and dedication, but so does anything worth while in life. You obviously have not sat down and looked at TOD because otherwise you would be a part of it, or, if you have been a part of TOD, you are just bitter and enslaved to your anger. Don't take your failures and your self-righteous attitude out on those who have helped others. Also, it is not a pyramid scheme because the are approved by BBBonline and there are several people near the bottom that are making more than people higher than they are. It is no different than an affiliate program. so, get your facts straight before you speak, because you are showing your foolishness to the millions of people that have access to the internet each and every day.
Hi Folks,
I need a true unbiased advise on this. Two days ago a friend of mine asked me to join a MLM scheme (Quixtar). I had been approached before by strangers and I completely ignored, but I looked more into this as it was a friend.
Showing video tapes of someone in a huge mansion and driving Mercs just made me think it was some sort of a scam. Also in those meetings, no one seems to care about math, and actually talk about numbers. I am a math major, and I have seen many schemes and there is usually a catch-22, just cant figure out what it is, and is it something I can live with.
Can someone guide me more on this.
regards,
Barnbridg
Like many Americans, I live in a small community. My husband and I have been in business in a small community for several (15+) years. I also am a registered nurse in a local hospital. I was recently approached into buying into whatever this is. I was given the CD's to listen to, though I have not listened to them. Why would I want to encourage others to do business via the internet, and outside our community. What would I gain? Money, is that it? For 15 years we have worked hard to provide the goods and service that the locals need. In turn, we make a good living for our efforts, keep our customers happy, and help maintain life in our small Northern town. I don't travel to any meetings, no one has to pitch me any Rah Rah tips to get motivated. I am financially secure. No fancy cars ( just an SUV,couple Harley's, plow truck, and a couple four wheelers), I've had the fancy cars...over rated! I have the big house on a hill tucked back in the woods. The big house . . .A royal pain in the ass! Cannot wait to down size (the serenity of the woods however,is priceless). A few land contract investments will take care of retirement. So.....what is this Idea that I'm being asked to buy into, is it so complex that I need to listen to CD's and go to motivational meetings? It's so we can all get rich, right! Is that it? Who ever came up with this surely has already made a sweet profit. That's not bad, that is smart. What is not smart, is buying into this with visions of becoming equally successful. In conclusion my question is this: Why would I want to encourage our community members to do business via the internet and not in our own home town?
People who think they know nothing, know nothing at all. Pride goes before a fall and The Team is working and will succeed despite all of your negativity. To have an opinion doesn't take brains, it only take a mouth!
People who think they know nothing, know nothing at all. Pride goes before a fall and The Team is working and will succeed despite all of your negativity. To have an opinion doesn't take brains, it only take a mouth!
Without a dream or a plan, you won't achieve anything. What's the definition of insanity??? Doing the same thing and hoping to get different results. You choose!
There is a published pay plan, if you build it you get paid. How much does whining pay? Anyone in long enough knows that width creates profit, but depth will keep folks in. So look at the chart, determine how much $ you want to earn, and build it. I'm not seeing the difficulty here. The Quixtar corporation pays the bonuses, and I'm confident will keep doing so. If you don't like paying for educational tools, don't buy any. Crazy logic. If you want to make $ on the tool system too, then build it so. By the way, I have built the business, I'm still in, and I wouldn't tell you about my group as it's none of your business. I must think it's worth it, I've been in 11 years. You wouldn't believe me and would probably ask me a bunch of irrelevant questions about how big or how it's built. I'm quite content with how big and how it's structured, which is all that matters I believe.
I can't imagine your passion in life is to bash Quixtar, isn't there something you would rather be chasing? Sure is more fun running hard for goals than constantly criticizing isn't it? At least I think so. Good luck in life,
Peace
Hi Traci,
I read your thoughts and judging from what I read, you must be a baby boomer, or almost retired and obviously with very little computer knowledge. I happen to also be a nurse in the ICU at a small hospital in Chicago and I work with several people like you who always resist change. The old days are gone and the computers days have come upon us. The most successful businesses (not the little mom and pop businesses) in the world today all have some form of computer technology involved therein. As a matter of fact, even hospitals have what we call an eICU which is an electronic ICU where you can communicate with doctors live via computer. Being a nurse, I'd assume you'd know this, but judging from what you said, you obviously don't know that computers are the way forward. Please don't spread that ignorance. Bet you guys don't do computer charting at your hospital hhmm??? Get with the times Traci, times have changed
The team is The Team right bigger better stronger the best they want to change the face of mlm quixtar amway they are one of a kind....run on sentence acknowledged....so markerman productions with the exact same intro as the the-team.bizz????? Jody Victor was well before orrin woodward. I was in for a year and half a sanguin/choleric not afraid to give it all I had. It sucked me in until I read "merchants of deception" and developed the strength to get the hell out forever......Thank-you God if your online right now
I went to a Team conference tonight and I have never heard such bullshit in my life. Talking about leadership and what makes someone "hungry". What of their shit haven't you heard from an experienced, elder grandparent who lived through the Depression? "Start, don't stop" -- "hard work pays off" OF COURSE IT DOES....this is all Puritan work ethic that has been engendered in American history since the Mayflower!! You're gonna pay people to tell this to you? All those books they sell/want you to sell --- here's a first tip from not even that great an econ student....AMAZON.com has that shit for half the price and used. Trust your guts folks. As much as American's turn into sheep...I think in the end, we always have a bit of great common sense. If we lose this we have nothing.
team is awesome orrin is one hell of a good leader quixtar is just jalous... so how do you think that the business team grew alot without product common people...
I personally just joined the Team recently. I don't see what all the commotion is about. As with any business, you are taking a chance, daring to dream. Anytime you invest in a business you are taking a chance, and with any business some succeed more than others. And have anyone of heard of an organizational chart? I'm sure anyone that has ever been in a management position knows what those are. Explain to me how those are not a pyramid? The only difference I'm seeing is that I could possibly make more money than the person above me, don't think that will ever happen in my current job, and I am in a management position! If nothing else, I am learning to be a better person towards others. It is true that there are alot of bad people out in this world, but that does not mean you cannot take chances, just take chances with caution!
Thanks for summarizing that mass of B.S. I went to that website yesterday myself and was amazed at the baffling B.S. It was long and drawn out. Bullet points and getting right to the point would suffice better.
Another reference they do at meetings, etc. is the McD's business how Ray Kroc has an empire run by the labor of 18 year olds. I personally would refer to a business that has better tasting food such as DQ, Wendy's, since I prefer quality over quanitity.
Posted by: Lisa | January 14, 2004 9:08 AM