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November 6, 2003
What I THINK I Know About TOD
By QBlog in
The following is a collection of information I've gathered about Team of Destiny. I don't profess to be an expert on this specific LOS but hope that by sharing what I know (or think I know) we will all learn more about TOD. If you can contribute to this information in some way, please contact me or leave a comment below so that we can correct any mistakes and fill in any gaps.
Founder
Team of Destiny was founded by Orrin Woodward. He's notable because he's been highly successful in Quixtar and he's young (compared to other Founder's Diamonds - he was born in 1967).
Business
Team of Destiny is essentially a motivational and support organization within Quixtar. It's also a Line of Sponsorship that begins with Woodward. There is some debate over how forthcoming members of TOD are about their affiliation with Quixtar and I won't try to enter that debate. What I will say is that every member of TOD is either a Quixtar IBO or a registered member of Quixtar. Sort out the details for yourself.
Stacking
One of the most controversial aspects of TOD is called Stacking. Almost every LOS frowns upon stacking for a variety of reasons. TOD embraces this method of group building and claims to have tremendous success by working in this manner.
So what is stacking? Well, from what I know it was first attempted aggressively in the early 1980s. I don't know the names of any specific groups but my understanding is those stacking groups achieved tremendous success, very quickly and then fell apart almost as fast.
Now, for the detailed explanation with help from our friends at the MLM Know-How Forum:
Stacking is basically depth vs. width. With most Quixtar organizations, a new IBO is taught to go wide (meaning sponsor a LOT of people on your first level) and create some income to fund the drive in depth (depth is sponsoring people under the people you sponsored and the people they sponsored and so on).
With the Quixtar compensation plan, the "wider" your organization is, the more profit you earn. However, there is a limit to your bonus for any single leg as it reaches a certain depth. Once you hit that limit your bonus will not increase, no matter how large your volume is in that specific leg. So, if you achieve that limit in one leg then it makes sense that you would want more legs to provide similar bonuses, which provides incentive to build width.
Now, depth will typically build in some security to your business. If I have 10 people and they're all one under each other (a straight line down ten levels), I would only really have to focus on keeping that one person on the bottom motivated to stay in and not quit. If they stay in, odds are everyone above them will stay in becuase there's a chance any one of them will take off and build it any day now. If I have all 10 on my first level and nobody under any of them, there's no incentive for any of them to stay. This can create instability in your organization.
So, what Orrin Woodward did was promote driving depth down one leg until you find your next leader and then you can work on your second leg. You drive depth down it until you find the next leader in that one.
The theory is, if you have 10 people in one leg, all stacked on top of each other, basically, you have 10 people all trying to find one person to put under the new person at the bottom. Now you have 11 people all trying to find one person. The new person always has a bunch of people upline working for their success (so to speak). This is why you hear all these TOD people saying they simply signed up and they already have X number of people in their group.
Now, what you don't hear is that all that volume isn't doing them any good because their bonus check is really small. This is why it's been documented that TOD IBOs have some of the lowest profitablity levels in Quixtar. But, they also have the least amount of attrition cause nobody wants to let go of all that volume below them.
Now, once you drive your busines 10, 50, 100, or whatever deep, you can start on your second leg. But this time, your upline is already on THEIR second leg, not yours. You're on your own. Of course, it's assumed that you have learned something with that first leg and can do this on your own.
The Perceived Problem with Stacking
Some say that the trouble with stacking, besides the small bonus checks at the beginning (which some may argue is a trade-off for downline stability), is that the people at the bottom do not get the same benefits as those at the top. Imagine going to a meeting with 9 other people to see the plan. You walk in, and by some fluke all 10 of you decide to sign up. The first person gets signed up and the second person is signed up under him and the third person under him and so on until they come to you. You're the 10th man and have nobody signed up under you. This may create a little bit of tension. Another potential problem could be the seemingly arbitrary ordering of people in the line. Who determines that Suzy is under Bob and that Frank is under Suzy?
There is also some debate about whether or not Team Of Destiny itself is an illegal pyramid. Scott Larsen has compiled a page explaing "Why Team of Destiny is an illegal pyramid." Whether you agree or not, it makes for some compelling reading.
The TOD Papers
Below you'll find TOD's own documents explaining stacking and the potential earnings. I must point out that, to my knowledge, TOD has created only three Diamonds since it began. I don't know how this figure compares to other groups but I thought I should mention that figure.
Or, download the original pdf here.
Conclusion
As I said, I'm no expert on TOD and I ask for your help in correcting any errors or filling in any information gaps. I'm also not endorsing or condemning the stacking method used by TOD. I'm just trying to share the info that I've learned, or think I've learned. There seems to be a certain amount of secrecy surrounding TOD's stacking and I'm just trying to de-mystify the business.
Comments
I don't really think they see "passing the convention" as taking the initiative, but I could be wrong.
What you may see as "taking the initiative" they may see as "getting cocky."
Personally, the way I do my business is, if you're not willing to make time for me, I'm not willing to make time for you. I honestly think that's pretty fair. But again, I don't know all the facts behind your story.
You say that Orrin is "young". How old is he?
He's 12.
Seriously. I really don't know. I've heard 25 from someone but I have no idea if that's true.
If he really was 12 I'd pay to see him speak.
thanks Q. also, you mention in this article that stacking was attempted in the 80's. Do you know which group it was? I asked Doug on the forum and he didn't know. Any info?
If TOD is illegal, why isnt someone stopping it? I am currently "in a leg" but I do nothing about recruiting. So guess what- even though I might have around 75 people under me, and buy crap I dont need every month, just to get my PV's, I get a $20 check 'CAUSE I DIDNT SIGN ANYONE UP.So I lose about $200 a month running my "business"- (of course, I have refrained from this practice for some time)
The question of why hasn't the government stepped in to stop TOD has several answers. First and foremost, after the FTC almost shut down Amway in 1979, Amway, the precursor to Quixtar, became very political and philanthropic. AmQuix now has several politicians they support/have in their back pocket, plus give millions every year to charity. The resulting good will and political pressure keeps the government at bay a bit.
Second, in order for the government to investigate, there needs to be complaints. And all Quixtar systems, inlcuding TOD, teach that failure isn't a result of the system but the person. Therefore, there are a lot of ex-IBO's out there who blame themself, and therefore do not complain. In addition, there is also a set of ex-IBO's out there who wish to put Quixtar behind them for good, and also do no wish to complain. Last, the "screw job" done by Quixtar is a small scam in relative terms. One person may only lose several thousand, which really isn't that much when you consider scams the size of Enron. It will only be when a large group of people complain and show the scam job to be millions of dollars will the government finally act.
But have patience, Busch. These things are happening. The Dateline show will expose Quixtar for what it is, and more and more ex-IBO's are coming together in web places like this one and MLMSurvivor. Eventually, the noise will be too big for the government to ignore, and they will eventually be forced to act, in my opinion.
If TOD is illegal, why are companies like Disney, IBM, MCSports, OfficeMax, etc onboard? Don't they have their own lawyers?
When is the Dateline show about Team of Destiny going to air?
plain and simple its a scam and the goverment will have it shut down just like it did amway qwikstar is next and tod is the same thing ( ITS A PYRAMID ) wake up people !!!!!
You really need to do some more research. The biggest pyramid is your job, willyou ever make as much money as your CEO, unless you are the CEO ---NO I don't see you trying to get the government to shut your job down. You can go to work for 45 more years to earn government sponsored Social Security or 401K or maybe even your own savings. Instead I choose to make the decisions for my own retirement and if I choose TOD or any other MLM - if I'm happy and you're not - too bad. A well known philosophy - you can't please all the people all of the time. You are entitled to your opinion and so am I, that's what makes the world go round in such a unique fashion - FREE ENTERPRISE. I'm FREE to venture in whatever ENTERPRISE I choose.
The Team of Destiny offers a different model in which to buy products so that consumers can profit. Stores offer products to consumers so only the producers profit. With a model like Team of Destiny of course we will have jealous people with consumer thinking giving negative feedback to the rest of the world. If you buy your products and don't get a return your thinking is different from those who do. It's actually great for people in business to see negative comments, strictly because that is like pouring gasoline in a fire. For every negative comment I read or recieve I push twice as hard. I have pursued the Team of Destiny to make money and I now am in to be a leader and serve my team. I want people to be at my funeral not money. I think they abolished slavery a few years back. To work for a company so that the owner gets their dreams is not what I signed up for in life. May God be with all that reads this.
I agree with the stacking problem. We were encouraged to put at least 4 people in our first leg, and you guessed it! Those were the fast runners and took off with it! Our outside leg consisted of people who thought they would get in on the stacking process, however, without any new leads we could never drive any depth. Long and short of it....2 years, tons of money gone, and zero profit because we couldn't get above our first leg growing like mad! The only person stacking and driving depth for it the 1 or 2 people who are lucky enough to go platinum, then they reap all the volume you didn't 'qualify' for!
Who will not want to do Business with the team of Destiny? We are going to rule the Internet in the not to distant future.
your all jelous TOD will work.. pathetic losers
For all you critics out there, here is a little information about TOD...I am 18 yrs old, been in the businees for not even a year, and am already making more than the cost for getting in the TOD. For all that say you lose so much money buying stuff, what do you do at walmart? Do they gives you percentages off of what you buy, and off of what others under you buy...NO. Overall, you buy what you would usually buy every month going to a walmart or any other store...and the funny thing is...they PAY you!!! So here I am, less than a year in the business, in college, buying stuff that i would anyways, and getting more money than I pay...really sounds like a scam to me...I will take this scam anyday over corperate America, working till I am 80 yrs old just to retire and die. For the whole pyrimid bit...I have many upline people who make less than I do. I just follow what the leaders tell me, and succeed. The tapes, books, and meetings only further to increase the speed at which I succeed. Nothing is mandatory. Successs takes effort. I truly feel sorry for all you critics out there...I will be retired before 20 yrs old, while you are still working at your miserable job till you retire at some miserable age. Maybe when you see 20 yr old IBO's driving jaguars, passing you in your rusty fords, you will finally get the picture that TOD is NOT a pyrimid scheme, it WILL set you free if you do the work, and it IS here to stay...thanks
When something sounds to good to be true, you know the rest. I have a good friend who has started into this recently and is going to a lot of meetings all over by choice he says. Its great to get something back when purchasing products and not many companies would do that. He has given me pamphlets of products to buy and what I don't get is the wholesale prices, NOT Resale prices are more than what we pay at Sam's or Walmart. Like a 36pk of Nature Valley Granola bars was $5 and in their pamplet it was $10.98. Dog bones were more also. I know you get points back but isn't that just like using your credit card to make purchases. I might not get $$ back at the end of the month but that amount of money seems similar to my value of points to be used on for a vacation. I guess time will tell if he'll be driving that jaguar and I'm still in my rusty ford.
First off, you need to check your sources before you post bull like this. TOD is backed by the Better Business Beareau. Which for those of you who are living in denial, means that the government backs us. Orrin Woodward is in his early forties, Ive met him. And as for "pyramid scam" claims. You guys really need to wake up. I'm cruising in this business, I'm only a college student. But since i have more free time to show this to people, I do better. We are not a recruitment agency because if you notice, the person telling you about TOD never brings an Application. Thats because if you sign up and dont do anything, I have wasted my time. There are older, much wiser people in this business that doubt it so they dont do the work. And I'm passing them. But they will wake up when they see me be more successful then they are at their jobs. And we have a lot of laywers and egineers on the team so do you think they all would have jumped aboard if they thought it was a scam. No. They researched it and found out that their jobs, while being an okay success could never get them what they wanted, because they are trading time for money. This by far is the best decision I have ever made and it is changing me for the better. Even if I dont succeed in this, which i will, the information that they are giving me is helping me be a better person to society. See you all in a couple of years when you realize that TOD is here to stay, just like McDonalds. When they first opened, franchising was 2 votes away from being declared illegal. Now its the biggest food chain on the planet. Sound familiar? Go ahead criticize. That will just make the future better.
funny how all these TOD bashings are coming from Quixtar IBO's. Maybe its because TOD is their fastest growing affiliate. Maybe its because we're on track to blow them away as far as Diamonds and above are concered. Maybe its because we build better and faster than they do, and even if they wanted to, they couldnt build like we do. Maybe its because Quixtar grows at an average rate of about 25% a year. While TOD for the last five years has grown 650% A YEAR (doubling in size every 2 months). Maybe they want us shut down because we are their competition....Maybe just maybe,
T.O.D. is a illegal pyramid scheme!!!!! check out scott larsens site, you will see!!
It is absolutely amazing the brainwashing that goes on within an organization like TOD
First of all. TOD is not BACKED by the Better Business Bureau. The BBB never backs companies. Any company can become a member in good standing with the BBB and remain so until complaints are filed.
The biggest pyramid is my employer. Yeah, ok. Now, when does my employer require that I spend money through my boss, and his boss and his boss so each of them take a cut? That doesn’t seem to happen in my world.
Think about this TOD pyramid for a minute. Suppose you get back more than you spend on stuff. Where does the money come from? Clearly not from you. Clearly not everyone is in your position of making more than you spend. Those people are subsidizing you. It’s as simple as that. For every dollar that is made within the organization, there has to be a dollar earned by someone at a job OUTSIDE of TOD. There are people on the bottom that are getting burned by TOD and are working REAL jobs in order to put money in and give it to other people.
And why is it that they preach that you’re supposed to question so strongly those sorts of organizational structures and question why your boss makes more than you and his boss more than him, up to the CEO, but nobody seems to bat an eyelash when uplines are pushing tapes & books and stuff and making most of their money from that?
Seriously. How much education does it really take to explain why something is so wonderful to other people? If this was so great, wouldn’t it be spreading just by word of mouth without having to sell it to people so strongly and go to weekly meetings and all that jazz?
Someone asked:
“If TOD is illegal, why are companies like Disney, IBM, MCSports, OfficeMax, etc onboard? Don't they have their own lawyers?”
You don’t know much about either Quixtar OR TOD if you’re asking that question, do you? Quixtar, when the rules are followed, is NOT an illegal business model. When done straightforward, when sales are actually made to customers OUTSIDE the pyramid according to the percentages that are set forth by law, then it’s not illegal. Disney could care less about TOD. They’re not on-board with TOD in any way shape or form. Saying they’re on board is like saying that Sony is on board with you when you buy one of their products at Wal-Mart. Disney simply has a supplier-customer relationship with Quixtar. No more, no less.
“If TOD is illegal, why isnt someone stopping it?”
Well, if someone mugs you on the street and you don’t tell anyone, why don’t the police find the guy who mugged you? For starters, it takes disgruntled former IBOs to make complaints to the attorney general’s office to get things going. TOD is young and the number of disgruntled people who actually do that is probably pretty small. If you got burned for a few thousand dollars, you’d probably keep quiet about it out of embarrassment. A lot of people do, unfortunately.
Do the research. Do the math. Anything to do with this cult like pyramid thing is a scam. I am watching a friend of mine of five years be taken over and brainwashed..LITERALLY by these people. She hasn't made a dime in 2 years, yet they keep making her spend THOUSANDS of dollars of her own money a year on 'business tools and trips' and yet they still have her thinking she's going to be rich soon. They tell people things like "quit your job.. concentrate on the business!" WHAT KIND OF CRAP IS THAT?! You cant just up and quit something that actually brings in money. They have this used car salesman approach with people and have a way of putting down the working man like myself. ITS CRAP. Do the research and you'll see for yourself. Quixtar personally just broke up a five year long friendship because they have her so brainwashed that she wont even go to the bathroom unless one of her UPLINE tells her to!! Dont let this happen to you. PLEASE!! I'm no idiot. Just seen enough of the world to know that this is totally not right! No wonder why the government shut down Amway.
Chuck's comment hit home!! I don't care whether you people think this Quixtar/TOD thing is actually going to work or not (even though anyone who does the math sees clearly that it DOESNT!).. The point is they degrade people in the process of selling this 'business.' You don't go into a store where people are working hard for their money and say "is this REALLY what you want to do for the rest of your life??" Of COURSE THEY DONT! Maybe some of us want to work hard for what we have, go to college, and become that CEO of a REAL company and take pride in it. Not become some "Independent Business Owner" who wastes thousands of bucks a year getting no where. Did ya know that the average Quixtar IBO makes no more than 88 bucks a month? I make more than that cutting grass for 2 customers and I save myself the humiliation of getting laughed at, made fun of, or kicked out of a Wal-Mart.
These "business functions" that my alienated Quixtar friend keeps trying to get me to go to make me ILL!! Anyone remember WACO TEXAS? It's about the same thing. People all gathered in some arena, brainwashed by what some BILL BRITT guy says. Why do they say he's one of the richest people in the world, yet I've never heard of him and he doesnt even exist on any of America's Top 100 richest people charts? P-Diddy is on there.. But BILL BRITT is not.. So they lie to you. CHECK YOUR SOURCES--- These people are FREAKS! I agree with Chuck about breaking up a friendship. My friend Marie is no longer speaking to me because I didn't agree with her on Quixtar. I saw her spending thousands of dollars a year on trips, CD's, books, products, and hotel rooms for this alleged BUSINESS and I tried to put a stop to it. In 2 years she's raked in a whopping 36 dollars. What's wrong with this picture? She's shut out the entire world except "Eric and Jennifer" who are her beloved "upline." She's turned her back on REAL FRIENDS for members of the 'business.' It's the most sickest thing I've ever seen in my entire life for someone like her to turn into what she's turned into. Thanks a lot Quixtar.. for ruining one of the best friends I've ever had. Thanks. For nothing.
I didnt write all this for fun. Please take a second to see how sincere I'm trying to be. DONT GET STARTED IN THIS CROCK OF CRAP.. and if you choose to, beware and prepare to learn the hard way.
We all know Chuck and Jason are the same person. Quit talking to yourself. You end up sounding like a freak.
QBlog person-- I think there's enough animousity in here fighting back and forth about this Quixtar scam as it is.. let alone having you make comments like that. I mean if you set this up for people to make comments, who cares who says what? Man chill out!
So then I can mark you down as "not caring" then right Ryan? Hmmm... let's see. Ok. Ryan... Does Not Care. Got it. Thanks buddy.
Oh and I'm now chilling. Good advice. Freak.
I have friends and family members in the TOD and other quixtar branches who think they are going to make a quick buck. All of them have been in TOD for months and still have high hopes of making it big. Yet, all of them are struggling financially...one of my friends can only afford one meal a day. He spends all his money on the books and tapes that are supposed to help him succeed. What a scam! Quixtar is like a cult...they are brainwashing people. I have lost some of my best friends to this Quixtar business because we're not in the business. We are "stupid and ignorant" and not positive reinforcement. (The tapes encourage it's participants by calling those outside Quixtar stupid!) Quixtar encourages people to be positive all the time. IBO's see people as potential money makers instead of as friends.
I can relate with Holly. I too used to have a long-time friend that recently got into this TOD. I have known him for well over 16 years. Now our relationship is disintegrating after I turned down his offer to join him as a downline member. Since getting into this TOD, his personality has really changed for the worse. After reading the pamplets and hearing a tape that he gave me, I did some research on MLMs. What I found sickened me. It's fundamental approach to MLMs is relationship marketing, where family and friends are viewed by these IBOs as walking dollar signs. It's the few people at the top who hold the conferences and sell the books, tapes and other "business tools" that truly benefit at the expense of the many down below. I told my one-time friend all of this, then told him that I would pray to God for him, that he should get out of this situation. This is beyond me. God can only help him.
Quixtar Amway, Mary Kay, Nu Skin, Hey they al work as long as you are willing to work them.
How many jobs have you guys been "scamed" on , but still keep coming back?
You keep pushing until...
yes... until....
you become sucessful!
Have any of you out there ever been to a tod meeting? I went to my first one this past weekend..Let me tell you folks, this stuff is for real. Be negative and be critical if you must. I visited briefly with some of the hottests folks in the free enterprise system. They are masters at being trainers. They are masters at creating leaders. They are masters at the "community" building process. They are masters...Again I say, be negative..but, please someone check back with me after Orrin and Lori and Tim and Amy and Chris and Terry come to my job and help me to retire at 42 !! Team of Destiny....you rock!
Kim Brown - THE ROOKIE
I think TOD is not a illegal pyramid, but at any rate who cares? Its a matter of will it work for me. I had been in TOD for 6 months and did the whole deal and it does work, but its not worth the amount of work. Plus as platinum your taking advantage of so many people lousing money so u can make money, its a wrong way to do a MLM.
I recently attended a Quixtar meeting because a friend of mine (who has been an IBO for 2 weeks prior) asked me to join. He made Quixtar sound like an easy way to make a few extra bucks. Thankfully I caught wind of Dateline's expose on Quixtar and refused to join up. It's amazing how the man who hosted the meeting behaved just like a typical brainwashed IBO. He labeled anyone against Quixtar as "stupid" and he even admitted to missing his best friend's wedding to attend a convention. Meanwhile the clothes he was wearing were cheaper than mine, as well as the two other IBO's who joined him. It's so sad to hear stories of men and women who pour so much time, money and worst of all hope into this "business" only to end up in debt. Quixtar just preys on the hopes and dreams of average, everyday people. I don't want to tell my friends that Quixtar is a hoax for fear of losing them, and they have put over a hundred dollars into the company already. I suppose they will learn their lesson the hard way, and I got away lucky this time.
The only reason you don't hear more from disgruntled TOD people is because they are still "chasing the dream"!!! They really truly believe they will make it! They are taught that if you quit you are a loser and a "thumbsucker"...
Well, we were platinums in the Team of Destiny, and I would warn anyone and everyone who is anywhere nearby... please either don't get involved or get out soon... before you spend money on tapes, books, and seminars that are lining the pockets of the Daimonds.
We feel it's our responsibility to say something... having been on the inside... The many support the few. It's rare and difficult to make significant money, and if you do, it will come from the "system" profit.
At least you can't say you weren't warned.
success comes from within. Every body is entitled to their opinion. For all of you confused, just try it and give it your best. You might succed or you won't, but if you sit here and read a bunch of people opinions and become un- motivated from somebody else experience then my friend God help you. My bottom line is try and learn from it, either way you'll succed from your experience. Again this is my opinion. Thanks and GOD BLESS
My brother is a former TOD member.
He and his wife really truly believed they would not be working in a few years. They poured their heart and soul into this.
Eventually, it finally sank in that it just doesn't work for everyone the way they were made to believe it did.
They had given it their all. They attended meetings, conventions, bought books, did everything they were programmed to do. They only socialized with people from the 'business'. They bought it hook, line, and sinker. It just didn't work.
My brother missed opening weekend of deer season to go to a function (you must understand how big a deal hunting is to him). Also, he missed his wife's sister's wedding to go to the annual convention. She almost did not attend her OWN sister's wedding to go as well, but was the Matron of Honor, so she had to attend.
To this day, they do not believe their failure to be the fault of the TOD. Rather, they believe it is their fault for not doing good enough, and OUR (the family's) fault for not supporting them.
To me, it was difficult to watch my brother believe so strongly in something, only to discover that it wasn't what they made him believe it to be.
I am an Amway IBO in Australia. I have only recently joined the organisation and barely have a month under my belt. I really don't know if it will work. But I would just like to say that there is a lot agression and negative emotion being displayed by both the supporters and crtitics of multi level marketing. There is no need to be so passionate any one concept or idea. Some Amway supporters are willing to lose friends to make money. Some of the critics are willing to lose friends just so they can reinforce their hatred of an idea. One friend of mine went berserk when I mentioned about Amway and asked him to come to a meeting. He accused me of trying to rip him off. I make no money simply because he decides to join. I only make money if he takes a look at the products and decides to buy them after comparing price and quality with supermarket brands. But I did not get a word in. I did not call him stupid or ignorant. I raised an idea and he did the rest in breaking up the relationship. In short, Amway does not break up friendships. You have to make the decision to do that. And people have made the wrong decision no matter whether they support or hate Amway. Network marketing is just a marketing concept: if you like it, repect those who don't; if you don't like it, say no but keep the friendship.
its pretty sad that most of the people bad-mouthing TOD don't fully understand it. i haven't been on long but i do know that a lot of whats been said isnt true...and of course if you just spend tons of money its not going to work! i have talked to a few people who tried it and only bought lots of books and tapes and attended meetings. they all thought that if they did that they would have financial freedom. and thats just silly. if people dont have the money (such as the one who can't afford food, but bought books and tapes) then they shouldnt spend on things they dont need. i had the money to put forth to start, but i don't have the money to pay for books and tapes. so i will just work a little harder. if you ask anyone on TOD if you have to buy all that to be successful, they will tell you no. and yes, i have asked my friends and family if they were interested. and the ones that've said no, thats fine with me. i dont talk to them about it anymore. but when they say no and then they're the ones who keep bad-mouthing it to me, thats when i get frustrated. if they dont take the time to listen to me or others about what it is, then i dont feel they have the right to say anything about it. i was told before i signed on that this is a lot of work. and i am ok with that. so i hope anyone who is interested will atleast attend a free meeting where you can meet all kinds of people who are either doing this or thinking about it...and you can ask them face to face how it is working for them and so on.
I just wanted to inform you that the dateline episode had nothing and I repeat nothing to do with the TOD. Yes, it was an article based on a business affiliated with the Quixtar industry. It was not TOD. Oh and by the way, I was wondering if anyone knew if the reported that did that story told anyone of the people that he was interviewing that he was making money off of them to do that article? If you are worried about people making money off of you, you had better not go in to work tomorrow. Know what you had better just put on a fig leaf and lay down in a field. Thats about the only way you can get away with someone not making money off of you. I sure hope everyone that has something negative to say, has a backup plan for their life.
i commented earlier defending TOD. i still believe that the business workds and can make many people financially set. however, i now understand that even though you dont have to purchase the 'system' of tapes/books etc...the people under you that you try to make rich, they do have to purchase if you want to make money. and thats ridiculous. they call them educational tools...but if it were just for educational purposes, why can't they post all the education you need for free on a website? i cant afford the 'system' and they dont recommend you getting the books from the library. if i cant be on 'system', why would anyone under me do it? however, i do still see the potential money. but the few people who were interested at first aren't anymore b/c of different negative stuff they've heard. so they don't do it b/c of that. so i don't make money. i'm still staying in b/c i've invested the initial money and i have a pretty close friend who's signed up b/c of me so i feel responsible for her. but i am not calling friends from 6 years ago like my uplines want. even tho the money possibilites are big and its just 1 phonecall, i dont want to be thought of as a pushy telemarketer. this sucks that they got my hopes up by asking what my dreams were-i'm just happy i didnt fall for buying the system like they push. they say they are ethical people. but their family and friends seem to be pushed out of their friendly circle of men in red ties and women in black behind them.
I see alot of different feelings about mlm's. People need to use common sense. It is not a system that makes you alot of money in early years, but it also is not a system that should cost you alot of money either. A couple hundred bucks to get started, and $50.00 or less a year to renew. Go to a bar or casino and see how long a couple hundred bucks will last. Sure you could spend alot of money on support and training materials, but if your smart you do what you feel you need, want and can afford. Remember it is a business that can be written off on taxes.
These are systems you can be involved in over a long period of time and maybe supplement your income or retirement, for little annual cost if averaged out over a few years. Get involved and be smart. Don't break the bank in the first year and get turned off. If it's not for you fine. A reasonalbe person will respect that. Nothing is for everyone or we would all be doctors or lawyers or something. Thanks for the space and best of luck to all of you which ever side of the fence your on.
It sure is easy to sit on the sidelines and bark out negative without getting the facts. ANYONE can post negative about ANYTHING....becasue it is on the internet, does not mean that it is fact....if it be positive OR negative about the biz.
Take all of the negative comments and ask yourself this.....There is a a whole LOT of money exchangng hands on the internet..how are YOU going to find someone to help ya take part in that....there is one way.....the 2-5 year plan offered by a group that will not be stopped..bottom line.
get a life tod people
I am a TOD IBO. I think that anyone with an ounce of intelligence already knows & has considered most of the "big scary negatives" that you critics are using to make this sound illegal. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY-you don't! Not at first, anyway. PV isn't as important as building up your team (and it's more fun!). IF YOU DON't WANT TO/CAN'T AFFORD TO BE ON SYSTEM (association opportunities & instruction by platinum & above) DON'T! I'm not on system yet, I borrow cd's & books from upline, and guess what--Nobody cares!!! They know IF & when I'm ever ready I'll do it, if not it never hurt anybody. Guess what else? Dressing professional happens--nobody forces you into it; I still wear jeans & you know what-I still get my checks in the mail every month. The stacking complaint is puzzling to me; I had it very clearly explained the size my checks would be in my first year, my upline even showed me his check stubs from his first 6 months in the business. NOTHING IS HIDDEN or KEPT SECRET!!! Anyone who understands the basics of marketing knows that Orrin Woodward & Chris Brady are making lots of money off TOD materials, it's obvious, but why care? The Walton's made a lot of money off me shopping at Walmart. Western MI University made a LOT of money off my BA completion. The University bookstore made money off my textbooks...etc. You get the point. Businesses, Corporations, schools, all use "consultants"-people who make money off their ideas of sucess. Why is it such a big deal that Orrin & Chris do it? They don't lie to IBO's and promise that all educational instruction is free. They don't claim to be a non-profit organization. IBO's have brains & they know what's going on before they even sign their name on the Quixtar affiliated registration form....And the brainwashing comments? Come on ladies & gentlemen, lets be civil. Smiling, hanging out with friends, reading motivational books, and opting to go to wear a red tie does not constitute a cult. If a friend treated you badly or your sister missed your wedding please realize that was his/her choice...TOD did not vote on the topic nor did they force those things to happen. People are individuals, please do not call me or anyone on the TOD I associate with brainwashed. Most of my team happens to be public school teachers; we function quite well on a day to day basis, no brainwashing here!!! My very last point- Kyosaki (author of "Rich Dad Poor Dad" & "Cashflow Quadrant"--self made mill(billion?)ionaire from real estate & investment) has reasearched the TOD & has said that if he lost all of his money spontaneously the TOD is how he would build himself back up. I trust his opinion much more than YOURS (or Orrin's for that matter) but most of all I use my brain & not my heart when it comes to this business.
I recently attended an open meeting with a friend. What I found was not a business system (as was claimed by the speaker), but people who were wanting a psuedo-religious experience. The meeting was conducted by speakers who were more like evangelical preachers than business experts. The enthusiastic masses responded like poor souls looking for financial salvation. There were three speakers that night. They all gave the same message - a very simplistic business plan with little hard evidence to support their claims. They repeated this mantra over and over again, slowly lulling the crowd into a stupor. My friend loaned me the starter kit and again the exact same message was repeated. This is a technique used by cults to brainwash individuals into believing in an ideology. It is a wonder that people return to these meetings week after week only to hear the same message repeated.
Besides the religious ferver of the crowd, the system to success sold by TOD seems to be missing one fundamental element to any successful business - THE RIGHT PRODUCT AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THE RIGHT PRICE. Income seems to only be generated by the recruitment of people to your team and through the sales of the business support materials to those team members. Sounds pretty much like a scam to me. Product is sold primarily to members of the team. A real business would try to grab as much market share as it possibly could and would go after consumers that were not members of the team. The model also claims to cut out the middleman by eliminating much of the traditional distribution channels. In reality, TOD makes agreements with many of the major retailers, like Circuit City. Is this really cutting out the middle man? Wouldn't it be better to go directly to the manufacturers to obtain products for sale through this new distribution channel? The problem is that many manufacturers and retail/distribution chains already have their own internet businesses. The TOD is really a little too late for trying to capitalize on the internet market place.
What is really sad is to see the number of very smart people that buy into this baloney. I fear that I will lose the relationship with my friend for refusing to participate in what is clearly a bad business plan if not an illegal operation. They are sold on the promises of a financially free future and a job optional lifestyle. The members of this religion defend it against its critics like religious fanatics, attacking the character of the people who criticize the business rather than presenting hard facts and numbers to show that this is really a viable business alternative.
I really feel sorry for all the people that have been taken in by this scam.
My husband and I are former member's of TOD (The Team). Before we joined this organization we went on the internet and read alot of the reflections different people left. I had my doubts about joining this organization but, I went against my better judgement. We went to all the Tuesday meetings and seminars and spent alot of money and we also joined the 'system'. We met alot of nice people....who can lie, manipulate and ask you "Do you know Orin Woodward?" If you are thinking about joining this DON'T. May God Bless You All.
Hi QBlog -
When I registered, I did it on my own, without "consulting" the person who STP'd me. I placed my first order, downloaded the Compendium & got busy researching. Later, when Convention time came along, he mentioned two things (since I passed on the Convention):
1 - If I hadn't registered so fast, I could've gone to the Convention (and more Previews) "for free".
2 - If I had consulted him first, he would have "stacked" me in one of his 3 primary legs, with my permission. That (supposedly) would have guaranteed me a downline (more stackers) and kept his focus on me. Since I was now essentially a renegade leg, support may be lower, since he is devoted to the three legs.
So, my problem with stacking & obstruction of facts is that it really sticks it to the few of us that jump up & get moving on our own. Although I'm no Passport cheerleader at this point, it's nice that prospects over there can have access to all the comp info and all of the Compendium-type data before they sign up, without the chance of them getting "stacked" into the wrong "leg" before they realize what's happened.
That's what I get for taking initiative!!
Chris
Posted by: Chris | November 6, 2003 2:59 PM