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September 22, 2003
Team Of Destiny Forum Discussion
By QBlog in
UPDATE: I've disabled the comments on this particular post. You can read the old ones but can't post new comments. This was done for two reasons.
1.) The excessive comments (over 100) were becoming a strain on my server. As great as the comment feature is, it wasn't designed to be a discussion forum with never-ending posts.
2.) Speaking of discussion forums, there's one linked below and there's also the quixtarBLOG Forum which facilitates excessive commenting very well.
Thanks for understanding.
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Found this Forum Topic discussing Team Of Destiny. Haven't gone through it all but it looks like some good stuff if you're looking for TOD info.
Comments
The Team of Destiny is a great team, and is out to build a community of shoppers. Just like a retail store, only the community is brought to them and they don't go too the community.
i am in the teamof destiny! it realy dose work. it is hard work but if you do what your mentours tell you and do the system and beleave the rewards will be good!
I love the Team of Destiny! Because of the leadership, I have been able to make enough money to stay at home with my kids! I have heard many negative things, but it's all false. I just kept going and believed in the system and the leaders, and my family is better for it!
This company is a fraud! This is a spin off of Amway! Get out while you can suckers!! Eat s**t all of you!
>> Edited for profanity
If you say it doesn't work, what does then? It's real easy to cut down an idea but it's really hard to come up with a better plan of action. Those of you who can only tear down the team of destiny without bringing something better to the table to ought to just keep their proverbial mouths shut! If you have something better than this, share it! Otherwise, move out and draw fire.
Let me tell all those who are wondering about the Team of Destiny. This is a life changing business. Not only does it change peoples financial futures, it changes people. It lets ordinary people do extraordinary things. It teaches people how to be leaders, think positive and take control of their lives. There is always going to be negative people that are looking for negativity and I suppose if your looking for something negative your going to find it one way or another. For those of us who have seen what this business can do we know, you don't know, what you don't know. Don't knock it until you've really tried it. The Team of Destiny isn't for quitters. Were a team that plays hard and goes all the way for a VICTORY!!!
I was wondering if anyone could help me with the numbers. I have been to a couple meeting on the company. I wasn't real impressed with the big meeting at Van Andel arena. I didn't learn anything about the company in eight hours. It is real hard to get any info off thier website. The way I see it you can only make money off other IBO's spending money. If there are 1,000,000 IBO's each spending $10,000 and the companies pay back 50% into the company. (All way higher than reality) Then not knowing how money is broke down I give 2/3 money to the top 1/3. 1/3 of the money goes to the middle 1/3. The bottom 1/3 gets nothing, they are building their team.
This is spending $10,000 on goods I could have got for $5,000 at discount stores.
Top: $10,000 (+$5,000)
Middle: $5,000 ($0)
Bottom: $0 (-$5,000)
Can you help me fix these numbers?
i was wondering if anyone actually knows what 'team of destiny' is all about. i know people in it and they can not even explain this to me. i have sat with a representative and all that i learned was history adn what i 'can' have 'if' i join. but never explained to me how these things work or what they 'actually do'. sounds like a bunch of very good eloquent speakers talkin u into giving them moeny thru empty promises
i was wondering if anyone actually knows what 'team of destiny' is all about. i know people in it and they can not even explain this to me. i have sat with a representative and all that i learned was history adn what i 'can' have 'if' i join. but never explained to me how these things work or what they 'actually do'. sounds like a bunch of very good eloquent speakers talkin u into giving them moeny thru empty promises
The Team of Destiny is a business that has been backed by the Better Business Bureau. You can go to their web site and click on the BBB logo to get more info from them, or call the Better Business Bureau. Since our government determines what is legal and what isn't and they also run the BBB, that should answer any questions about the legality of this business. My personal experience with this business is that it has helped my wife and I stay home with our 2 year old daughter. I have also seen friends achieve the same results, and am looking forward to seeing many more to come.
Team of Destiny / Quackstar is all about brainwashing people into believing they'll make a lot of money when they won't. They just keep promising and promising that the big money will come someday...
TOD members may make a little money, but will spend 10 times the amount of time to make that money than if they'd just held a minimum wage job. Team of Destiny members make about 30 cents per hour for the time and effort they put in.
The only way to make any money is to sell the tools. The tapes. The books. To the Team Of Destiny tools who will buy them.
All they're selling is the dream and community atmoshpere. If you're willing to go broke for this make believe dream and community spirit. Well, that's your call.
The Team of Destiny is in a class by itself. Developed by ordinary people who dreamed to aspire to extroardinary results and have fullfilled their dreams.Their are a number of people every year who no longer have to worry about punching in at a job or,waking up to an alarm clock.Don't believe the results?Attend a local meeting in your area.Don't have a local meeting?Hang on we are coming for you.If you have been to a meeting then you shouldn't have one thing negative to say.If you do,you weren,t paying attention and this is not a business that will work for you. W A R N I N G !! This is a business for ordinary people who wish to achieve extraordinary results.
What is the Team of Destiny? I've been in the business for about 9 months so Ill try to help you understand through my perspective what this Francised Internet Company is all about. Keep in mind I'm the messenger not the message. The Team of Destiny's motto is Have Fun, Make Money, Make a Difference. We are getting people free from their jobs and back with their families. We are changing peoples lives for the better. We are helping people reach their dreams. This business has personally changed my life and my family's indefinently for the better. We do not make false promises about getting rich quick, this is a BUSINESS and like any other business you have to do the work. Think about it McDonalds has a 99.98% success rate, however if you bought their franchise and never opened the doors, would you ever make a dollar? Basicly we are a group of affiliated I.B.O's we work as a team and build communities of loyal buyers, thats what we do, we get paid to shop! Sound pretty unconventional does'nt it? Well there was this guy named Mike Dell he had this unconventional idea to sell computers over the internet, when you need a computer to have the internet to start with! He dropped out of college to do this, how crazy! It was so crazy it made him $21,500,000,000.00 You can continue doing what you're doing now for 45 years and end up dead, disabled, or broke. Or you can help us make a difference for 2-5 years and have your money work for you instead of you working for your money and you'll get your most important commodity make. YOUR TIME!!! Were have 40,000+ with us right now and we WILL go to a million people and were not stopping there. So if you have'nt herd of the T.O.D yet, you will and when you do all I can say is keep an open mind because a mind is like a parachute, it's useless to you if it's not open.
God bless America and the T.O.D
I've lost two good friends to Quixstar's Team Of Destiny. And that is very sad.
Like every TOD member I've met, they've lost their ability to think for themselves, and now can only repeat slogans from their meetings, like "Follow your dreams" and "Fulfill your destiny". Jim Jones got into his followers' heads the same way. My friends are on a downward spiral into utter bankruptcy.
My friends are going broke by spending money on 'tools' and meetings in town and out of town. And buying case loads of coffe and other junk they don't need off the internet. TOD promises money will come down the road, but in the meantime they're going broke. And that money, in truth, will never come. It's impossible because the business model doesn't work. Heck, no solid business model even exists.
You can't put food on the table by chasing false dreams that others have placed in your head. Wake up people.
I went to one of TOD's Tuesday meetings and left with excitement; even told many people I was ready to sign up. Everything sounded too good to be true. I went to bed late that night and woke ready to go and realized "TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE". I then started looking up on Pyramid Schemes. TOD does not sell a product or service and to make money ( "rebate" checks larger than money spent on purchased items) I would need to recruit to people that will also purchase the opportunity to access a website to purchase items. After reviewing several States laws regarding Pryamid Schemes; I believe TOD is actually an illegal business.
Team of destiny is an illegal operation:
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:Tp-qQu-HEugJ:www.amquix.50megs.com/tod_illegal.html+%22team+of+destiny%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
First of all, Nick, the BBB is not, repeat NOT affiliated with the government in any way, shape or form. The BBB is a private organization that acts as an intermediary between businesses and consumers. To become a member of the BBB, all a business has to do is pay the fee. In return for the fee, the BBB passes along any compliments and complaints to the company that come into the BBB. So, a BBB endorsement means little, other than a company paid to become a member, and by no means does an endorsement by the BBB makes a business legal. That's up to the courts. I suggest you check the BBB website to find out more (notice the .org and not .gov at the end?)
Secondly, TOD, like all other lines in Quixtar are little more than ponzi scams where the masses lose money in order for a few at the top to make money. 40,000 members, and TOD has only broken one new diamond, but that's really how the founders of TOD want it. Because the more big pins that break, the more people get their hands on the real money, which isn't in Quixtar, but in the tools all you TOD fools are buying up. Just check out some of the Quixtar lawsuits on mlmsurvivor.com and see for yourself just how much the big pins make from selling soap and how much they make from selling hope! Or better yet, join the forum on this site and ask a former diamond yourself.
Last, unless your business is selling 70% or more to clients and members (customers outside the business) your business is illegal according to Quixtar's own rules. Don't worry, they don't enforce them. However, it also means you are a part of a negative pyramid. To put it another way, add up all your Q purchases and expenses, and those in your downline and compare it to the number you and your dowline make back in bonus money, and I will guarantee the expenditures are more than the profits.
But hey, you don't have to take my word for it. You are all dreamers, and if the dream is big enough, the facts don't count, right? Just remember this. Numbers do not lie, but people do!
Are most of the products in TOD resold to people who are not Quixtar IBOs? How about the tools? Are most of the books, tapes, videos and functions tickets resold to retail cusomers who are not Quixtar IBOs?
If no, then TOD is an illegal pyramid sheme.
Take the link and read the cases that are cited there. I dare you.
Here's the link:
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=315
hey lawdog if you would read your own post you would see that you are WRONG. right in the thing it says that if the company makes money off the new sign ups by INVENTORY LOADING. does the TOD do that nooo. the whole idea of the tod is to show everyone that there is something else out there. so when you say do we promote tickets and tools to non members, yes we do because if we didn't the business wouldn't grow, and neither would people. because some people aren'e good at selling things doesn't mean everyone does it like that. the diamonds can't controll what people do with there business, that is why they are called INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNERS... hello,? mcfly
Hey, hey, maybe you should re-read lawdawg's post. Here's a clip from it that you either did not read or did not understand.
[quote]Koscot, like the many other cases I linked to above, was about the lack of focus on legitimate retail sales of the products and the fraudulent emphasis on recruiting as the basis for the scheme. Inventory loading and up-front payments are symptoms of an illegal pyramid scheme, but the sine qua non - the thing that makes it an illegal pyramid scheme - is that most of the money moving through the pyramid comes from particpants in the compensation scheme and not from retail customers outside the pyramid. Thus, in Koscot, the FTC issued the following order prohibiting the company from[/quote]
Basically, inventory is the symptom of the problem, but not the problem itself. The problem is any system that does not promote outside retail sales. In Quixtar, those are sales to members and clients, and if your group's sales are not 70% to members and clients (as per Quixtar's own rules), you are running and illegal pyramid.
For more information and what is an illegal pyramid scheme and why they are bad for the general public, take the link.
Here's the link: http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/regulators/PPSdefined.pdf
Its amazing that tod is called an illegal pyramid when you have universities are charging to much money for a professor that tells you wants in a book. Then you pay a fortune for a 4 year degree taht takes 5 and can't find a job. Try selling those books to an non college student or even the book store. So who's really getting the run around when more people are filling bankrupcy then getting college degrees. What about the young people $50,000 in debt to colleges and can't find a job paying over $13.00/hour? Give me a break!!! So don't get mad because tod is training people to be successful in all parts of life and colleges put you in debt before you even get started. Go read a book about successful people and learn some information so some of can stop defending the poor position your in. Just learn and get better by following someone that is a true mentor not someone who owns you, I mean your boss. Think about this how much is he making off of you everyday? Does he pay you more than your worth or by the amount thats in career books in the libray!!!
Learn the correct information before you judge!!!
Lance, please post where you got your information about more bankruptcies than college graduations and show us some proof. I know I looked, and here's what I found for college graduations from the U.S. census. http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/education/p20-536/tab01.pdf Looks like about 27% of all people 25 or older have a bachelor's degree or higher, and from these tables, we can deduce that number will rise. Why? Because the percentage of people 65 or older with a college degree is only about 16%, whereas those in the 25-29 demographic have a degree rate of almost 30%. What this means is as the older generation passes they will be replaced by a new generation that has a higher grad rate.
As for bankruptcies, that's harder to find, but I did find he U. of Maryland study that shows that up to the year 2000, bankruptcies were actually on the decline.
http://www.bsos.umd.edu/econ/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-feb2001-update.pdf We also see the bankruptcy rate of about .4%/year.
So Lance, where did you get your numbers from?
Another thing about college "systems", Lance, is they actually work! Take a look at this table from the census. http://ferret.bls.census.gov/macro/032002/perinc/new03_001.htm Notice that in general, the higher degree level a person has, the higher income level! (numbers tend to get higher the more right on the chart you go) Of course there is no guarantee of anything and you need to do the work, but college systems have a decent success rate.
Now Lance, what is the success rate in TOD or any line in Quixtar? I know the answer of what percent of IBO's actually make diamond, do you?
I tell you what looking at some of these numbers scare me even more when i think about the average cost of higher education, mortage, interest on loans, and other things that we encounter during our lives. Why are you so upset when people are learning more information about life, themselves, and economics then they know about. What is that is making you so unhappy when I've seen people actual retire in their 30's and meet some even in their 20's? The information that is learned can help you in anything you come accoss in life. Think about this, you can choose to read it yourself or not! Just like people who start their own business, play the lott, go to casinos, and so on. I know one thing that I have meet numerous amounts of people that have changed for the better due to this business. Every person doesn't have the urge, drive, or pursistance to finish things that they start neither. Tell me this, how many people do you know that could really need help with different issues in their life? This is the real question!
Have a great one!
I was wondering if anyone could help me with the numbers. I have been to a couple meeting on the company. I wasn't real impressed with the big meeting at Van Andel arena. I didn't learn anything about the company in eight hours. It is real hard to get any info off thier website. The way I see it you can only make money off other IBO's spending money. If there are 1,000,000 IBO's each spending $10,000 and the companies pay back 50% into the company. (All way higher than reality) Then not knowing how money is broke down I give 2/3 money to the top 1/3. 1/3 of the money goes to the middle 1/3. The bottom 1/3 gets nothing, they are building their team.
This is spending $10,000 on goods I could have got for $5,000 at discount stores.
Top: $10,000 (+$5,000)
Middle: $5,000 ($0)
Bottom: $0 (-$5,000)
Can you help me fix these numbers?
I am thinking about TOD, but until this is explained how can I.
I'm not sure about the spending $10,000 on goods and begin able to buy the stuff at $5,000 at a discount store. I know that the things that I normally use to buy from office max, franklin covey, mrs. fiel;ds, mc sports, kb toys, my mother's lane bryant, and so on. These were place were I was already shopping and many more. So now just starting off I'm buying the same stuff right now and getting a rebate and I have even profited beyond what I have spent on stuff. But what i really wonder is why people are so quick to put this down because its different when they don't do this to regular stores. Ask the same questions to the owners of the stores you shop at. People go around everyday advertising sales and you don't get a dime from it.
I wish those stores would encourage me, teach me things that has help my relationship with my fiance, co workers, friends, and family. People tell me that they enjoy talking to me because i'm positive and they know i'm going to make it and some don't even know i'm doing anything besides regular work. The things i have learned through tod has saved me from making extreme fiancial mistakes plus i'm get money back on stuff i was already buying. So hey I can only tell you about the benefits i'm receiving in my short journey and i'm enjoying meeting people that are trying to make money but are also becoming better people in the process and making a difference.
So to your question not sure were those numbers come from but i haven't seen anything like that.
Ok, I have read through the Pro's and Con's posted here, but I still do not see the actual business principles that generate revenue/value add to the end consumer. If the concept is making goods available at deeply discounted prices, bringing buyers to a central market-place to view these discounts, and generating significant volume(at a positive margin) for the participating 'affiliates, why wouldn's the TOD company articulate this more clearly. I suspect they are purposefully vague on this topic for a reason.(to sell educational products to the 'community' and keep your enthusiasm to sell others). The 'affiliates' that participate would have to generate significant volume through this channel to justify providing deeper discounts than the other traditional retail channels. If these companies could just 'drop' the logistics/advertising channels that are already in place they could provide at lower costs, but folks THEY DON'T. They still maintain the traditional channels and advertising, and therefore the affiliate' unit costs would not be significantly lower JUST FOR THE COMMUNITY. The money to be made here is to 'level' people, and the folks at the top will pay you a commission for your efforts. The commissions MAY just offset the materials you buy, and if you are really aggressive selling the 'dream' to your friends maybe you will make money. Buy your friends probably won't. Other than 'hearsay' from the leaders of this company on success models, please take the time to demand more concrete evidence of effectiveness.
hey i just found this site today and have been reading a lot of the neat information that everybody has provided. i have gone and looked at the sites that others have suggested here. i have found that in pyramids, commisions are based on the number of distributers recruited not products. the t.o.d. does not get commission on other people joining. ibo's get $ back based on the products purchased for themselves and by their members ( if you do not know what an ibo is your not looking at all the info) these products are provided on-line and we only buy what we want or need and it is shiped to our door step. like tp, tooth, paste, cereal, diapers, and other stuff. cool huh
oh ya the sucess rate as my brother told me is 100%, because if you want to suceed you will. just like graduating, getting a job, or anything you want out of life, you have to WANT TO first
another piece of info for everyone.
look at what you have and look at what you want.
example: you have a few $and you want $1 mill.
then look at what your friends or people you are getting advice from and see if they have got the things that you or they want. example: do they have $1 mill ?
it they dont have it , why are you listening?
go find someone that has what you want and learn from them how to get it.
a doctor goes to a hospital to learn an astonaut goes to nasa to learn
if you cant tell yet i am an ibo with the t.o.d. and that is one of the best pieces of advice i have heard.
find someone and go to an OPEN or two or three if you whant
Tony, you are using incredibly simpleton logic. Doctors don't just go to hospitals to learn, and astronauts don't just go to NASA. And besides, if my neighbor has only $500,000, but three years ago he had $250,000, should I not listen to him because he doesn't have $1mil yet? According to your simple way of thinking, I shouldn't listen to him until he reaches $1mil, despite the fact he has doubled his net worth in three years!
Second, price comparisons almost always favor discount stores over Quixtar. Add in shipping and the cost for Q can get really high. For the most part, Q cost 25% to 33% more expensive then Wal-Mart, Target and Costco before shipping, and you can look for other web-sites for cost comparisons online.
Third, some more accurate numbers for our anonymous friend. There are somewhere between 500,000 and 750,000 IBO's in North America, and it is tough to pin down how many are active, as definitions vary. Also, Quixtar pays about 33% back to IBO's for comission, but of course it isn't a straight comission as there are different levels. The bottom level is 3%, and the top is about 25%, and the other 8% goes to pay performance bonuses, usually only to those at the top. That's why in the system where people buy from themself and teach others to do so with little or no outside retailing to members/clients, only about 2% actually make more money then they spend. You can try and plug the numbers in for yourself here, http://amquix.info/quixtar_estimator.html but it can get very confusing.
Fourth, Lance, I worry about the information people get from Q motivational tapes/seminars. They say everyone not in Q is a loser and the only way to salvation is Q. That right there is a bunch of B.S., but when you look at the numbers and see less then 1% make emerald and even less diamond, one wonders why the Q motivationals have a huge FAILURE rate? And the answer is simple, because the system does not work for the vast majority of people not because people are lazy or unmotivated, but because of simple math. Buy from yourself and teach others to do so is not only illegal, it's a mathematical formula for failure for the majority of participants (see Ponzi scheme).
Last, the ultimate evil of the Q systems is the money made off of them by the big pins. Again, do the math of the 40,000 TOD IBO's. If just 20% are plugged in and spending an average of $150/month on tools, that generates $1,200,000/month alone, which should be plenty to cover operating expenses and leave a lot left over. Plus, there is the percentage of IBO's who aren't fully "plugged in" but do go to functions and buy the occasional tape, which probably accounts for hundreds of thousands of dollars/month. In addition, diamonds get speaker fees for talking at other system functions, and these can range up to or more than $25,000. In short, while you are struggling at the bottom to play a numbers game, Lance, where the majority are losers, those people you edify and love are raking in your money and enjoying their lifestyle because you keep chasing the carrot they put in front of you.
TOD has an incredible amazing product that has a proven track record of generating huge revenues and will continue to generate revenues far into the future. That product is hope.
Dazzled by dreams of the easy life thousands are being convinced that all that they need to do to earn their dreams is plug people into a team and buy products through a web site. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Where is the mechanism for measuring market saturation in all of these pyramid schemes? How do these businesses measure market share? Where are the evaluations of the competition like Quixar? Am I to believe that an individual will be able to participate in both Quixar and TOD? When I asked these questions among others I was told that I would recieve assistance in overcoming my negative attitude.
What really pisses me off is that these people are taking legitimate and valid ideas from people like Robert Kiyosaki but omitting others. Kiyosaki's ideas work together like insturments in a symphony. Neglecting key concepts like due dilligence, and reading financial statements is a serious error. If this is *MY* business will I be able to see a fully disclosed financial statement every month? I dont see why I shouldnt as I am the business owner. This is an easy money fantasy.
For those of you who become angry because the critics and skeptics are pointing out the holes in TOD I must point out that criticism is the most important tool for evaluating ideas. We do not need to provide you with a solution or better alternative. In fact your demand that we show you a better way or shut up is illustrative of your intense need to have answers handed to you. Anyway, all that is necessary to be successful in business is to provide something that people want at a cost or convenience advantage. Its that simple. Good systems help you do this. Unfortunately you need to have some sort of actual understanding of an industry or product to do this. Without that insight you will probably miss something crucial and fail. If you dont have that you can always join some group that will teach you how to teach people how to teach people how to teach people that they can get rich by teaching people how to teach people how to teach people. All you need to do is buy this book of the month, tape of the week, go to these weekly motivational speeches at $5 a pop and pay $25+ for special seminars and retreats. Welcome to the scam.
You can pretty much guarantee that any negative comment posted on this forum website was written by those individuals who have failed to do what TOD is teaching each and everyone of us. They were probably not plugged into "the system" , attending the opens and attending all monthly and major seminars. If you remember, this is a business. You can't expect to get something from nothing. When you start a new job, there is training. You can't get good at something if there isn't any training. TOD provides that. They allow us the privilege of learning from the leaders who have the fruit on the tree. How many CEO's or self-made millionaires will allow you to "pick" their brains on the secretes of their success? The people that are successful in TOD starting in the same spot as everybody else. They received the same training that everyone else has been offered.
So those of you who are negative about TOD, maybe you should evaluate yourself and ask if you did your due dilligence in taking the steps necessary to be successful in this business. If you don't have something better, then maybe you should be quiet. This business isn't for everybody and obviously you're one of them.
As far as the comment about the financial statements, etc. You can view your business reports each month. It breaks down your earnings and the info on your downline.
TOD is really the most positive business I have ever seen. You'll never meet people like the ones in TOD and when it comes right down to it..... TOD is basically using the internet - which is where everything is going anyway. So those who don't do what is expected to be successful in this business, you'll be the minority still shopping at Walmart in a few years - and ya know what? they're still not going to pay you to shop at their store!!!
Don't try - DO!!!!!
I love Team of Destiny!!!!
T.O.D. works ONLY if you keep recruiting. There is no other way around it. So yes you can make money but you've ruined your life constantly trying to recruit people. As far as everyone else talking how good it is doesn't matter. Why? Simple, none of them are making anything better than an ok job and they never will. It's useless to argue this point since it will remain (even after future postings) 100% true.
TM
OK, If you have negative things to say about the Team Of Destiny, either you have an IQ equal to the number of my testes, you TRIED to participate in TOD and failed because you are lazy and want Something For Nothing, or so unmotivated because you were beat by your step parents while telling you that you arent worth $hit. Dont pass the favor please. This is a legitimate business. Let me ask all of you NEG people. WHERE ARE YOU?!?! Why should I take your broke-ass advice??? I would lay my soul in front of the devil himself if you people could tell me if you know somebody in TOD and they are not lazy and unmotivated and want something for nothing like you people!!
I've never tried TOD and I have a lot of negative things to say about it, Bill (blows that theory out of the water). My IQ is also much higher than 0 or 2, which is the number of testes that you may or may not have. I'm also not lazy, have a net worth of much higher than broke, and willing to work very hard for the things I want and need. But I don't need you to validate my existance, Bill.
But what about you, Bill. How well are you doing in TOD, and what about your downline? How many people in your downline and how much money are they making? And how much money are they spending? How long have you been in TOD, Bill? And what about your member/client volume? How much do you sell to members/clients, and is it in line with Quixtar's rules and regulations?
Certainly, if TOD was a legitimate business, you can answers these simple business questions with facts and figures without resorting to childish name calling, ad hominen attacks and emotional arguments that prove nothing about TOD except your love for it.
Team Of Destiny is just that a team of destiny. I am an I.B.O. I barrow tapes and books from my awsome upline. Don't ever believe you have to spend a lot of money to learn the techniques you need to go diamond. I have invested much time in learning these techniques by counciling with millionaires who have ran through the mine field and are glad to show me the path. Doing what I've been doing I will never receive passive income. I have One question for All The NA SAYERSn Will YOU?
TOP Gun Run! GO CHAMPIONS team
Does your sponser teach you to, "Buy from yourself and teach others to do so,"? What about, "Just change your buying habits and show others to do the same,"? Does your upline tell you about retailing to members/clients, or does he tell you that is not neccessary?
Well, if you are not retailing to members/cilents, you are running an illegal business. And you don't have to just take my word for it (some anyonymous poster on a message board), but the Federal Trade Commission agrees with me. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcams/dotcon/mlm.htm
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME OUT? I WAS JUST INTRODUCED TO THE IDEA OF TOD AND I THINK IT HAS SOME POTENTIAL. BUT WHEN ALL OF YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STAY HOME WITH YOUR KIDS, HOW MUCH MONEY ARE WE REALLY TALKING ABOUT? I KNOW THERE IS "UNLIMITED" EARNING LIMIT BUT WHAT ARE -YOU- ACTUALLY MAKING. GIVE ME YOUR NUMBERS. AND IS IT MANDITORY TO BUY THINGS LIKE BOOKS AND TAPE AND GO TO THE MEETINGS? I MEAN IS THERE A CHANCE THAT YOU COULD LOSE LOTS OF MONEY?
I think this Yahoo messenger correspondence is self explanatory:
yourprincessishere132003 : hi
mastergunner99 : so how long have you been in Quixtar?
mastergunner99 : hello?
yourprincessishere132003 : um 1 yrs
yourprincessishere132003 : and my fiance 2
mastergunner99 : who's your diamond?
yourprincessishere132003 : chris brady
yourprincessishere132003 : are you in it
mastergunner99 : which organization is that?
mastergunner99 : training organization that is
mastergunner99 : Yager?
mastergunner99 : Britt?
mastergunner99 : Network 21?
yourprincessishere132003 : neither
mastergunner99 : Pronet?
yourprincessishere132003 : yager
mastergunner99 : ah okay
mastergunner99 : so what pin level are you now?
yourprincessishere132003 : you know alot about quixtar are youin
yourprincessishere132003 : i am almost 150
mastergunner99 : i'm leaving quixtar this year
yourprincessishere132003 : y
yourprincessishere132003 : what are you
mastergunner99 : used to be 1000 pin
yourprincessishere132003 : how long have you been in
mastergunner99 : quixtar is being investigated by Dateline
mastergunner99 : and I wanted to know why
mastergunner99 : and a Diamond, Bo Short, quit Quixtar and left the residuals behind
mastergunner99 : and that's a pretty big move, so I wanted to know about that as well
yourprincessishere132003 : y is dateline investigating quixtar
mastergunner99 : because of the marketing practices in the training organizations
yourprincessishere132003 : hmm
mastergunner99 : for three years I bought tapes/books/functions and was told that's what I needed to make it in the buisness
yourprincessishere132003 : are you in team in destiny
mastergunner99 : no
yourprincessishere132003 : oh
yourprincessishere132003 : i am
yourprincessishere132003 : ok no
mastergunner99 : and when I wanted to not buy so many costly tapes, I was gettin shunned
mastergunner99 : they all pretty much sound the same
yourprincessishere132003 : um hold on my fiance trying to talk to me
mastergunner99 : k
mastergunner99 : they're good people
mastergunner99 : i just don't think the system is set for anyone to win though
mastergunner99 : average person loses money in Quixtar
yourprincessishere132003 : hey said bo just talk to us 7months ago
mastergunner99 : and I want to either not make money or make money, but not lose any
mastergunner99 : Bo Short?
yourprincessishere132003 : see the tapes and everything dont get your money
yourprincessishere132003 : yeah
mastergunner99 : i know they don't
mastergunner99 : so why buy them in the first place
yourprincessishere132003 : to help you its optional
yourprincessishere132003 : you have to build and buy to make money
mastergunner99 : i understand
mastergunner99 : but you and I both know, that you're considered not serious if you don't buy tapes
mastergunner99 : or pay 300 bucks to go to conventions and all that
mastergunner99 : and they sound just like the tapes then
mastergunner99 : and the singing and dancing
yourprincessishere132003 : i paid 45.00
mastergunner99 : it was very strange
yourprincessishere132003 : singing and dancing?
mastergunner99 : i'm takling about travel and cost too
mastergunner99 : hotel, food
mastergunner99 : the whole deal
yourprincessishere132003 : hold on
yourprincessishere132003 : here's my upline his my fiance
yourprincessishere132003 : who is your diamond
mastergunner99 : Greg Gilmour
yourprincessishere132003 : have you ever heard of the team of destiny
mastergunner99 : yes
yourprincessishere132003 : then you should know we are the fastest growing and most respected group
mastergunner99 : that's debatable
yourprincessishere132003 : bo short spoke for us i think it was 5 months
mastergunner99 : all the groups say the same thing
mastergunner99 : had to be longer than that
mastergunner99 : Bo isn't in Quixtar anymore
mastergunner99 : he quit about two years ago
mastergunner99 : he might have came in as a paid guest speaker though
yourprincessishere132003 : lol no not really we have had over 250 people retire in the last 3 years
mastergunner99 : but you don't have the figures to compare
mastergunner99 : so it's unfair for you to say something like that without evidence to back up that claim
yourprincessishere132003 : no its not unfair
yourprincessishere132003 : im an emerald
yourprincessishere132003 : in the group ive been in for about 15 months
mastergunner99 : how can you make comarisons, when you don't know other numbers from the different organizations?
yourprincessishere132003 : i know more than 250 people have retired im under scoring it
mastergunner99 : i don't contest those figures
mastergunner99 : i'm just saying it wasn't an ethical thing to say you are the best and fastest when you dont' have the stats to compare to
yourprincessishere132003 : Quixtar came out with the fastest growing figures
yourprincessishere132003 : team of destiny didnt
mastergunner99 : then they should be able to give you all the figures
mastergunner99 : how well did Network 21 do?
mastergunner99 : or Pronet?
mastergunner99 : or WWDB?
mastergunner99 : WWDB said the same thing you just did
yourprincessishere132003 : im only focused on quixtar
mastergunner99 : those are all quixtar
mastergunner99 : they are training organizations in quixtar
yourprincessishere132003 : we dont send people threw those
mastergunner99 : i know
mastergunner99 : it wouldn't be financially prudent as TOD needs to generate money from the sales of their tools
mastergunner99 : just as all the other organizations
yourprincessishere132003 : quixtar has special things they have made up for us since were basicly writing our own rules
mastergunner99 : as do they with WWDB and others
yourprincessishere132003 : we control most of the top 25 fastest growing in the world
mastergunner99 : for instance, WWDB got to do some trial run program for building a client base
mastergunner99 : i can't remember the name of the program off hand
mastergunner99 : Quixtar beta tests programs with various organizations all the time
mastergunner99 : so it makes sense they tailor rules to fit the various organizations that do things differently
yourprincessishere132003 : if you go to our TOD
mastergunner99 : for instance, in WWDB, they don't need to fill out the 10 customer thingy, until they are platinum
yourprincessishere132003 : web site you will see all the people in the top 25
mastergunner99 : i'm okay
yourprincessishere132003 : no thats not how it works
mastergunner99 : I think i'm pretty burnt out on Quixtar after learning a lot about it
mastergunner99 : i've been in 3 years
mastergunner99 : Dateline is investigating it now
yourprincessishere132003 : you either have 10 clients buying
yourprincessishere132003 : or
mastergunner99 : talked with Bo last week and they inteviewed him for 2 hours about it and why he left
mastergunner99 : i know or 50 pv
yourprincessishere132003 : you have 100 dollars spent out of clients
mastergunner99 : i know the rules
yourprincessishere132003 : well its not that hard
yourprincessishere132003 : to do
mastergunner99 : but in WWDB that doesn't have to be reported until you're 7500
mastergunner99 : didn't say it was hard
yourprincessishere132003 : i have 5 groups
yourprincessishere132003 : i think i know also
mastergunner99 : was just giving an example of how different rules apply to different organizations
mastergunner99 : and that's a rule that's different for WWDB
yourprincessishere132003 : it applys to ours also
mastergunner99 : but for you guys, it's starts day one i would imagine
yourprincessishere132003 : there are 3 kinds of people there are the ones that sit around and wait for it to build by its self
mastergunner99 : i know i heard it all before
yourprincessishere132003 : there are the people wish they did it
yourprincessishere132003 : and there are the people that just DO IT
mastergunner99 : i've been in 3 years, bought tapes three years, went to funcations 3 years
yourprincessishere132003 : and i dont know which one you are but i cant complain about my pay check
mastergunner99 : I know the cliches
mastergunner99 : i just think quixtar made the mistake of not standardizing their training
mastergunner99 : it should be free
mastergunner99 : screw the tapes
mastergunner99 : the meetings
mastergunner99 : the functions
mastergunner99 : use conference calls at home
mastergunner99 : use websites
yourprincessishere132003 : it basicly is free
mastergunner99 : lower the price of the products
mastergunner99 : no it's not
yourprincessishere132003 : YES IT IS ITS CALLED TAX RIGHT OFF
mastergunner99 : that doesn't make it free
mastergunner99 : that's actually deceptive to say something like that
mastergunner99 : ask a CPA about how free that is
yourprincessishere132003 : ok if you wanted to own a mcdonalds
mastergunner99 : heard it already
mastergunner99 : i'm not a newbie prospect
yourprincessishere132003 : you have to pay for the training dont you
mastergunner99 : yes, but this isn't mcdonalds
mastergunner99 : this is MLM
yourprincessishere132003 : well you seem like it
mastergunner99 : and it should be free
mastergunner99 : doesn't take much to record an mp3 and make it free for download
mastergunner99 : only reason they charge is to make money from the training itself
mastergunner99 : the organizations are profitable companies
mastergunner99 : and when someone is making money off it and it's not necessary then I believe that to be unethical
yourprincessishere132003 : ok you cheap punk quit i dont care im retired and im only 21 so quit but in 45 years when your still at work and im out in the sun just remember me lol your really cheap you know that
mastergunner99 : of course, now because I have independent thought, I'm considered to be negative and whatnot
mastergunner99 : now you insult
mastergunner99 : hmmmm
mastergunner99 : i thought we were having a conversation
yourprincessishere132003 : have a great day
yourprincessishere132003 : bye
mastergunner99 : i guess that shows the strength of your organization for you to resort to talks like that
mastergunner99 : i don't recall insulting you
mastergunner99 : i was just trying to figure it out
mastergunner99 : is that what TOD teaches you?
I had a friend come up to me today and wanted me to come check out this new business venture. Funny thing is I couldn't get any facts out of her. Almost like she was hiding something from me. Until someone else opened up and said something about buying things over the net...and paying to join. Which now I understand. She earns money from me, and I earn money when I sign people up. So I break even later on. Well later on doesn't help pay the bills at the moment, sure I'll call up the phone company and make an IOU out for 2 years from now..LOL
So my friend was totally embarrassed that I found out I had to buy things when I said I was broke.
I have two questions, if this is supposed to be a great business, how come know one can explain what it is their exactly doing? And two, why can't someone tell us how much they made so far????
i've only been in tod for a few months so i'm still learning but i know (personally) many people who are in this and have seen their results and i've met people who have retired. its the real deal folks! of course people are going to say bad things about it but they can just remember how badly they are going to get screwed over for the rest of their lives by their employers who doesn't give a shit about them or their families. so what if ibo's recruite people this only means they are passing on the knowledge they have learned and hopes they have the motivation to help themselves be financially free. All you ignorant people can just kiss my ass when you're slaving away at work away from your family and i'm laying out in the sun on some tropical island b/c i wanted happiness in my life.
Sincerely,
Happy IBO (0:
I have a few questions myself about this company. My brother-in-law has joined up, and I'm frankly worried that he's getting ripped off.
First, would anyone want to pay to join this 'buying club' for purely financial reasons? In other words, would I actually get items cheaper online than I could find them in my local discount stores?
Secondly, why does this company seem to be mostly about 'positive thinking' and 'teamwork' as opposed to sound business practices that can be laid out on a spreadsheet for examination? Whenever I start asking anyone substantive questions about this company, they immediately jump to the conclusion that my problem is 'negative thinking' that 'stifles my growth potential.' This company seems to be much more about slogans and cliche's rather than about honesty.
Who's actually making money in Team of Destiny, and how much does the average new 'IBO' make in his or her first year in the company. I'm not asking about 'unlimited potential', I'm asking what the average new recruit to the cause actually nets.
These are honest questions: if this is a legit company, then I will stop worrying and wish my brother-in-law luck. If it's a scam designed to fleece well-meaning people out of their hard-earned money (by dangling the carrot of more family time), then I'm going to do my best to get him out of it.
I wrote several post dated checks because the TOD rep. said it would be better than to wait for my income tax refund. Is there anyway I can get my checks back or do I just eat it and chalk it up to life experience? She drove 10 hours and said pretty all the cliches' reported here but no hardcore facts and figures. My husband is mad at me for doing this without him. I just put us in the hole more thinking I was helping. Ahhhh!!!! How do I find out if Nebraska considers these businesses illegal?
Kristina, call your bank and put a stop order on your checks. It will probably cost you $10 a check, but depending on the size of the checks, it may be worth it. As for checking on whether or not TOD is legal in Nebraska, call the Nebraska Attorney General's office and ask them about pyramid schemes. If you believe what you have been exposed to is an illegal pyramid scheme under Nebraska law, go ahead and file a complaint.
Bandersnatch, you hit the nail on the head about TOD and all other Quixtar (Amway) Motivational Organizations. All fluff and no substance. If you look at the front page of this blog there are statistics on just how much the big pins make, but those are unimportant. Take a look at the disclaimer at the bottom about the percentage of each pin hit. Less than 1% ever reach emerald, and significantly less ever reach diamond! And while people like Happy IBO will say I'm just being negative or involved in "stinkin thinkin" and HIBO will laugh while I'm slaving away at work and he's retired in 2-5 years, the reality is the substance just is not there.
And then there is the whole tool issue. If you have not done so, take a look at some of the lawsuits on MLMSurvivor.com, Bandersnatch. To date, nobody in TOD has been sued that I know of, but in other lines, there have been various lawsuits, and not over money made in the Quixtar business, but money made in the tool business. That's because up to 85% or more of a diamonds' income comes from tools (tapes, books, functions, etc.). It is a total ripoff and scam, and I suggest you buy Ruth Carter's book, "Behind the Smoke and Mirrors", Bandersnatch (can be ordered through MLMSurvivors.com). Read it for yourself, and if he is receptive, give it to your brother-in-law.
Just one quick note: I am not Ruth Carter, nor do I know her, nor have I ever met her. In fact, I have never given her a dime as I found her book at a library and read it.
Hey ass hole!! Mind your own business!! You must have alot of time to worry about what everybody else is doing. No one is contracted or forced into buying books or tapes. Get a life. What kind of scam are you trying to run?
Hey anonymous, please, if you have something of significance to add, please do. If all you are going to do is name calling, I think the rest of us will agree we can do without the unintelligent babble. And no, I'm not running any scam, and yes I do have some free time to post here; what is it to you? All I am doing is telling the truth (diamonds make more from tools then they do from Quixtar and according to Quixtar, only 1 in 13,000+ IBO's will ever reach diamond) and giving my interpretation of what the facts mean. If you do not like it, anonymous, then please give a better rebuttal then "ass hole" and prove me wrong. If not, I will continue to post, because after all, as the bottom of this page says, "This site is protected under the First Amendment".
I HAVE REVIEWED YOUR FORUM FOR A SHORT WHILE AND AS YOUR HEADER STATES THIS IS ONE MANS" BLOG " AS A HUSBAND OF AN EX-IBO. AS MANY HAVE STATED " NEGATIVE IN, NEGATIVE OUT " . AND HAVING EXPERIENCED THE TEAM OF DESTINYS APPROACH YOU CERTAINALLY WERE EXPOSED TO " POSITIVE IN, POSITIVE OUT " OR WEREN'T YOU " IN THE SYSTEM ." YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE SYSTEM ?? T.O.D. FOCUSES ON POSITIVE THINKING , TRAINING, ASSOCIATION , GROWTH . WHO CARES HOW MUCH MONEY THE DIAMONDS ARE MAKING ON THE TAPES, BOOKS, SEMINARS, OPEN MEETINGS . DO WE GET CONCERNED WITH THE LEADERS OF THE BIG THREE AUTO MAKERS ON HOW MUCH THEY MAKE ON EVERY CAR THEY PRODUCE WHEN THEY HAVE TO EXPEND $$$$$$$$$$ ON ALL THE ADVERTISING, SPEECHES, SCHOOLING, TRAINING , ECT. FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES TO ACHIEVE THE LEVELS OF CORPORATE EXCELLENCE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO " SELL " MILLIONS OF AUTOMOBILES EACH YEAR" DO YOU THINK THE TEAM OF DESTINY WOULD BE ANY DIFFERANT IN MARKETING INFORMATION THAT THEY ACQUIRE FROM THEIR TOP 1% BUSINESS OWNER'S. SO WHY ARE WE SPENDING ALL THIS " EMPTY AIR " ON HOW MUCH IS BEING MADE?? .... SOME PEOPLE ARE SATISFIED WITH SITTING ON THEIR HANDS AND ALLOWING LIFE GO BY , SOME PEOPLE TAKE TIME TO INVESTIGATE LIFE WITH PLANS OF PUTTING INTO MOTION WHAT THEY HAVE LEARNED BUT BECAUSE OF " NEIGH-SAY-ISM " THEY BUY INTO THE NEGATIVE AND BACK DOWN FROM THEIR DESTINY, THEN THERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVE THE " BACKBONE AND GUTS ' TO GO OUT AND " MAKE LIFE HAPPEN " FOR
THEMSELVES ... AND ACHIEVE GREATNESS. I DON'T CRITICIZE YOU FOR YOUR STANCE ON THIS TOPIC, I DIDN'T LIVE THRU WHAT YOU DID, BUT I REACH OUT TO THOSE WHO HAVE A " HEART FELT HUNGER " TO GET MORE FROM LIFE, TO GRASP LIFE BY THE HORNS AND SEE WHAT IT PROMISES THOSE WHO DARE TO IMPROVE, DARE TO POLISH THEMSELVES UP, DARE TO CHANGE THEIR " STINKIN-THINKIN ". ONCE YOU ELIMINATE THE "STINKIN-THINKIN " YOU NEVER GO BACK BECAUSE IT IMPROVES YOUR LIFE. GOD BLESS YOU AND THANKS FOR YOUR TIME !!!
... GO TEAM OF DESTINY ......
Only morons and assholes type in all CAPS. Buy a clue with all that Quixtar money and disable your Caps Lock Key.
Sheesh. You really know how to piss me off. Do it again and I'll delete your comment CAP FREAK!
Had a feeling that comment would draw you out of your hole. Welcome back Caps-Boy. Guess what. For all who don't know what I'm talking about I'm a man of my word and deleted the ALL CAPS post from that freaking moron. Booyah.
CAP FREAKS MUST DIE!
Man, I went to one of those meetings the other day just to see what it was all about, and I could tell right away that the guy was trying to sell me a bottle of snake oil. Theres a 250$ fee just to sign up, you have to buy all of your shit from them, buy like 50 tapes, and go around and preach to people like a goddamn jehovah's witness. And you are supposed to start making money after 2-5 years, and be able to quit your job?? Fuck that. They can't spit up my ass and tell me it's raining!
I have been in the TOD for a year now, and i can tell you, i have alot of fun doing what i do, i enjoy the tools, i enjoy the seminars, and meetings. I have learned to not have such a negative outlook on things and to be a positive person. I have seen the results and what you or others can achieve and i'm willing to sacrafice that. My husband, works at one of the big 3, guess what, they pay in a pyramind, the TOD system pays in debt. Almost every company pays in a pyramid, no one will ever pass up the big guy in making more money, In TOD you can. Those of you who have such a negative outlook on things, i feel sorry for you, you need to be able to accept change. If anyone has any questions, or wants more info on the TOD, you can email me at xoxosunshinexoxo at iwon . com.
Yes Cindy, most companies pay in a pyramid fashion. But do you know what the big difference is between a traditional company and a pyramid scheme? The answer is simple.
In a traditional company, the money being paid by the employer comes from customers; most of whom are not affiliated with the company in any way, shape or form. For example, Cindy, if you husband bought a Toyota, would he still not get paid from the Big 3 company he works for? Of course he would, because the are thousands, if not millions of others still buying the product your husband helps produce.
Now, in a pyramid scheme company, the money comes from those affiliated with the company, and are on the company "payroll". (With Quixtar, IBO's are independent contractors and not employees per se, but are on the company's payroll). And with the pyramidal payout, those at the top profit, but those at the bottom end up spending more on products then they make back from the business. It would be like the only people buying automobiles made by the Big 3 are the employees of the Big 3, and while those at the top of the Big 3 made money, everyone from the managers all the way down to janitors spent more on cars then what they made in salary.
One last note: There is nothing wrong with buying from yourself. Just you HAVE to sell to consumers outside of your organization (in Quixtar, you NEED member/client volume). Otherwise, you are in a pyramid scheme, and I can guarantee you that your group is spending more on products then they are making in profits.
Cool comments guys...I would hesitate to believe everything (on either side) and I do know that rules/policy do vary from organization to organization. I guess what I'm getting to is that I don't really care...I made $12,000 this year as my first year as an IBO (not in TOD). I'm 23 and excited to see what the next few years bring. Take care and enjoy your posting.
All I have to say is that the people who don't have anything nice to say about TOD are clearly small thinkers. We have been taught all our lives to think a certain way and for most of us thats got us nothing but
alot of debt (eg. credit cards, mortgages, car payments, furniture payments) we don't have the cash so lets just finance everything, and these are just people putting us further in debt. TOD offers us different information, with different info. comes different results. Do you nay sayers have someone that could teach you to be financially free, that could teach you how to get you're TIME back? The proof is in the numbers people, this orginization is growing at over 650% a year, the closest competitor is about 25%. Clearly the Team of Destiny is different. The only way to lose at this is to do nothing or quit, do what the Diamonds in this business are teaching you and you will succeed. You are Your biggest challenge, and only You can decide who to listen to. Are you gonna listen to people who don't want to put in the effort, people who are in debt and can't show you a way to get out, people who come here to crush other people dreams cuz they weren't willing to do what it takes to get there own, or will you listen to people who started out just like us, took in different information, learned from people who ARE financially free, did what they were told and got their dreams. If you truly would like more time with family, get out of a JOB, help other people in the process, learn different info., to get different results, then make the decision to check it out for yourself. Be willing to put in the effort, cuz nothing great
comes without effort, and you'll get everything you've ever wanted.
yet another TOD LOVER!!!!!!
Nice rhetoric, Dreamin Big, but that is all your post is. It is all style and no substance. And here's a news flash for you. There is nothing new about TOD and what they teach. It is the same system crap that has been put out by Amway/Quixtar systems for over thirty years, and the fact of the matter is, the systems do not work. If they did, why would only 1 in 13,000 IBO's ever reach diamond, regardless of system.
And another thing, DB, blindly stereotyping people on message boards as losers, or people in debt to their eyeballs is silly and stupid. Fact is, you know nothing about my financial situation. Credit card debt? I don't have any. Furniture debt? Haven't had any in five years. What I do owe on is my house, which the interest for the mortgage and second mortgage (which will be paid off next year) is tax deductable, and my cars, both of which have interest rates less then 3% (one I have a 0% rate). So, next time, think before you type, DB, and give us some facts and figures that back up your and TOD claims, and lighten up on the rhetoric.
dmm, First of all I never called anyone a loser, all I suggest is take advice from people with fruit on the tree. And frankly, the tod system is different, we are learning from the fastest team builders on the planet, and are teams are not built the same as the others. You may not have alot of debt but are you financially free, do you have to spend the next 45 yrs, or 100,000 hrs of your life working for money? All I'm saying is thats not what I want, I would like to spend that time doing the things in life that really matter. It doesn't take Diamond to be financially independent, alot of people on this team are able to retire from their jobs way before
diamond level. Yes, it takes effort!!!!! You don't make it in this business unless you learn to help others succeed, this is totally win/win. Again, if you're not willing to put in the effort, you won't get the results. Unfortunately most people don't want to work for it. We're looking for the people that do, and they're out there, it's up to us to find them and alot of people aren't willing to do that. I know that if I don't succeed in this, it's MY FAULT, my laziness, and my decision nobody else's.
DB, if you believe the TOD diamonds have fruit on their tree because of their Quixtar business, then ask to see their books. They can blank out all the personal information such as s.s. number and address, but keep all the financials in there so you can confirm everything they are telling you. I would also ask to see their financial information on their tool business as well, since historically, Amway/Quixtar diamonds make up to 90% of their income from tools, and not their AmQuix business!
As for the TOD system being different, that's a lie. Stacking is not new, and while it promotes stability, it does not solve the biggest problem with any system that is buy from yourself and teach others to do so. And that problem is the overwhelming majority of people involved must be losing more money then they are making, in order for a very few to profit. Unless you and your downline are selling significant amounts to members/clients, it does not matter the structure of your Quixtar business. Fact is your group is spending more on Quixtar purchases then you are making in Quixtar bonuses. And this doesn't take into account your business expenditures.
There are very few people who could stop working tomorrow and live the rest of their lives truly financially free. Think your diamond heros are some of them? Think again. Why do you think they keep on putting out tapes, attending functions and speaking at other functions. Is it because they truly want to help you, or is it because they need the money! Fact is, without you spending money on Quixtar purchases, and more importantly, TOD tools, the TOD diamonds would have to find a real J.O.B.!
Last, if the reason people do not make it in Quixtar, regardless of system, is just laziness, does that account for the fact that only 1 IBO in 13,000 ever reaches diamond? Are the other 12,999 just lazy? And the numbers for emerald and platinum aren't great either, as platinum is about 1 in 176. Lot's a lazy people out there.
I just read this whole thread and my vote is that yep, its a scam. My boss just paid her $250 and is singing its praises. I expect she'll be trying to brainwash me into buying the tapes, books, etc. soon. Thanks so much for this site as now that I'm informed I'll be able to resist this scamilicious snake oil !!
Its all about pipelines people...if you don't have a pipeline of income than you will never have security. If you still believe that you need to continue trading time for money that you don't have security. Rich people look for networks, poor people look for work. Do you want to be rich or poor? Making money is not a crime and neither is being an IBO with the Team of Destiny. Who wouldn't want to be a part of the fastest growing company on earth? Get with the trend of e-commerce because if you don't you'll miss out on your chance at financial freedom.
Lets think her, Of course it is 1 out of 13,000 go diamond ,but it only makes sense,because you will need that many to find the few that will just do it If every one was hungry enough to go diamond how could it be 1 out of every 1 ? The buisness pays so much because it requires so much .
Make mine TOD!
How could everyone go diamond? Simple. Retail enough to have a high enough PV/BV count to qualify for the pin!
Wow, what a heap of crap. This is just as bad as the infomercials on TV. I have had two different people in my small town of 1,200 approach me about TOD. They both sounded brainwashed about retiring in 2 or 3 years, and gave me a spiel about McDonald's and Sam Walton. Both gave me thier number or whatever to access TOD's webite. The second one followed up and I checked it out. All I can say is pffft. I really didnt get much info about what TOD is all about- that vagueness scares me. From what I can see, the people making the money are the ones that are getting the $250 sign up fees and selling the tapes. Plus they brainwash people into talking jiberish about me being my own personal walmart.
Everything I have read that was good about TOD is some of the exact same phrases a couple of gents had used on me while trying to get me to go to a meeting. I didnt go! It sound like a brain wash deal. I own my own company and after many years of hard work, it take blood swet and tears to make it. This TOD scam is for those working at gas stations wishing they had more. wake-up. Some of the coments they used are 95% of the people make 5% of the welth, MacD's, Walmart and Wally's dreams, more time with the family, have fun, retire? I have yet to meet anyone in the TOD that is well off. The man that came running over to my house say's he was. Ya right.
I joined tod about 2 months ago. I find that most people are very nice and act like they care but when trying to actuly talk to them most walk away in the middle of my sentence. They all repeat the same thing fallow this guy and you will get all your hopes and dreams. I have been to 2 seminars and my uplines just kept repeating this over and over. The speaker are good but they always have a ticket holders meeting after where a daimond is going to speak. but you can only hear them if you pay an addintional $90 for another meeting. They say that not much is made off the tickets or tapes. where can i go to find the truth?
Anyways when is this NBC dateline story going to break?
what are MLM's?
how many other quixtar branchs are there and what are they called? And what differs them from tod?
Do they all have seminars, tools, and are the books written by quixtar affilates for the purpose of quixtar?
Why are you people so angry? I have spent $250 on worse things than a chance at helping myself become financially independent. I have a dream and a vision, does that make me a bad person. I am willing to work hard to be where I want to be and if that means being with the Team of Destiny why should that bother you?
Why the anger? For some, it is the disillusionment. Quixtar/TOD was going to be their salvation, and they were lied to and deceived. For others, it is just the scam that gets them angry. For me, no anger at all, and if you want to join TOD, I'm not going to stop you. Just remember a dream and vision will only take you so far and you should do your due diligence finding out all you can about Alticor, Amway, Quixtar and TOD before signing on the bottom line.
I have a friend that recently got into TOD and he has become a different person ever since. Then, he tried to get me into this "business" by having a person come over to my home and give me the whole sales speech...starting with the comment "what would you do with an extra $50,000 a year? I instantly knew it wasn't for me if that is what I need to tell people to rope them in. My biggest question for the brainwashed few TODers is "what exactly do you sell in your "business?" You don't actually have a product to sell, you are just selling memberships to your "club." I know that the best part of this TOD (actually...the only good part) is that you are technically a SBI and are intitled to a different taxition from the government, but what really bothers me is just how brianwashed my friend (and others) is because he always refers to TOD as the business. I haven't told him how I feel, but since I told him I wasn't interested in the business, I don't see much of him (which might be for the better actually).
I am good friends with the assistan attorney general in my state. He says they use quixtar as a model for a legal mlm. On his comments I joined the TOD and in 12 months of work I am a new platinum on my way to sapphire. I make more money per month in my business than I did after 5 years as an accountant. TOD is the best way to have fun, make money and make a difference out there and the integrity of our leaders is unquestioned in my book. I know and respect their ethics and christian walk.
Thanks Andy for your comments. I too know some of the leaders on the TOD and I have seen some of the charities they contribute to since I am on one of the boards. If you would like to know how the TOD leaders view our country check out orrin's site www.orrinwoodward.com and read his heroes article. The password is "tod" If more leaders would focus on serving like the TOD leaders, our country would be a much better place.
I too know people that were able to quit their jobs to become stay at home parents. I think this is wonderful...I would love to stay home with my children so they know who their mother is. That's what I'm working toward. I love the people and the atmosphere that comes along with the Team of Destiny. It's not for everyone...and we don't want anyone that doesn't have a dream or understand the concept of the business. My life is on a better track since becoming involved int TOD, so why do some of you feel the need to try to rip happiness away from other people. If you don't want to be a part of this organization then don't, but don't go running off at the mouth about something just because you didn't like it.
I have recently been offered the "opportunity" of TOD. The basic concept makes sense to me. However, it needs to pass this simple test: Can I buy (can others also buy) products online at or less than at other sites or in stores? Is it convenient? Is the site secure? In essence, the company has to provide a product or service (or combination) that make it desirable. If it only provides me an "opportunity" to sell to others, then it is just a scam.... Please, anybody who has actually shopped from TOD, does it actually offer all these, or is it offering an "opportunity" to enroll others..?
I do shop online as a part of the Team of Destiny. I love the fact that it all gets delivered to my door and I don't have to go to the store. The site is secure and if others want to get involved to just buy online they can do that for something like a $20/year membership. It's easy and saves time....just like any other store some items are less and some are more...just like your local stores. Hope this helps a little bit. They offer a tremendous amount of items for you to choose from. You aren't selling things...you're offering someone a chance to work as an IBO. It's either something you want to do or it isn't. Glad to hear you're open minded.
Joy, what you describe is the classic illegal pyramid scheme. "You aren't selling things...you're offering someone a chance to work as an IBO."
The fact is, you have to sell things in order to make money. Otherwise, you are only making money if your downline is losing money. Take the link from the Federal Trade Commission. Here's a quote:
"In pyramids, commissions are based on the number of distributors recruited. Most of the product sales are made to these distributors - not to consumers in general. The underlying goods and services, which vary from vitamins to car leases, serve only to make the schemes look legitimate."
And from the same link, "Be cautious of plans that claim you will make money through continued growth of your downline, that is, the number of distributors you recruit."
This is why all Quixtar, and make no mistake, TOD is a line in Quixtar, has member/client volume and other retail sales rules. If you are not selling at least 70% of your products to end users (members/clients), you are participating in an illegal pyramid scheme where mathematically the overwhelming majorty of participants will lose money so that a few will make money. If you would like the mathematical explaination, take this link http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=381.
Last, all those other benefits of Quixtar, the ride range of products and delivery to your door are subjective, and for many, including me, not worth the extra cost of buying from Quixtar.
dmm, not so sure that you know your facts. Look again. This is not illegal.
Here's the FTC url for those who didn't figure out that all you have to do is click my name. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/pyrdalrt.htm
And as followed by Quixtar's rules with the retail requirements, Quixtar is not illegal. But as I interpreted Joy's comments, that you do not sell anything but the opportunity for others to become IBO's, it is a classic illegal pyramid scheme. Ask this simple question, "Where does the money come from?" If the answer is retail clients (members/clients), then it is not illegal. If the answer is your downline IBO's, it is illegal, and guaranteed to be a money loser for the majority.
A friend of my girlfriend is coming to town this weekend for a meeting, and she signed up my GF as a "gift". I'm doing everything I can to keep her from going, this clearly a scam. If I didn't already know that, reading this thread definitely wuold have shown me. Not because of anything negative someone here has said, but because of the pro-TOD people who have posted. EVERY person has said essentially the exact same thing (which I'm sure is just parroting what's been hammered into their heads at the meetings) to defend TOD. "Teamwork", "Positive thinking", "Freedom", stop all the rhetoric and tell us exactly how you can make money without selling to customers. The answer is you can't unless it is at the expense of those below you. If you acknowledge that and have no moral qualms about it, then fine. But be aware that you are lying to other potential IBO's about the growth and wealth-creating opportunities. The only possible end to this kind of business is a huge amount of people at the bottom losing money to finance the profits of everyone else. It is IMPOSSIBLE for every IBO to make money. No matter how hard they work, those at the bottom cannot make money. No, "Positive thinking" won't do it either. So if you want to be a part of TOD, feel free, it's your life, but please just acknowledge that you will only make money at the expense of the suckers below you, who are getting fleeced.
Ok "AB" if your girlfriend is getting signed up as a gift it is because someone cares enough about her well being to assist her in financial freedom. Signed up or not anyone anyone can study the business and educate themselves to see if its something they are even interested in pursuing. Not everyone is qualified to succeed if they have a negative attitude. And yes, EVERYONE can make money because the team continues building 300-600% annually. Quit making assumptions and posting them without truly seeking the information from someone who knows because that is ignorance. Most people are just afraid what they are doing isn't good enough therefore if you aren't looking for a better way than don't join. I'm sure your girlfriend will thank her friend if she decides to pursue it, I guarantee! I say to all those people who post negative messages about this business...give me your proof and a better idea and i'll come check out what you're doing.
Holly, why do we have to give you something better before you look at the negative comments to see if they have any merit? That is akin to me saying I don't believe anyone who is telling me jumping off a tall building is bad and until someone comes to me and tells me something better, I'm not going to listen. It's a poor rationalization, and makes zero logical sense.
For example, if I can show you that over 99% of all IBO's never make a profit, and that will little or no retail any profit made is actually money lost by downline IBO's, would it make any difference if I had a plan of my own? It shouldn't. And in fact, I would say my information without an alternative would be more easily accepted, because I do not have an ulterior motive to telling you just how bad a financial decision Quixtar/TOD is.
dmm is just Scott Larsen posing as Dan Meyers and he writes 95% of the negative you see here under his various identities. He has had a vendetta against quixtar for 7 years and criticizes any organization that is growing. Since TOD is growing that is his new target. All I have to say is get a life and begin to search after wisdom. Maybe the people in your city will not sentence you to death like they did me for misleading the youth. You have mislead people too long dmm. Get a life. For those who are wondering yes it is me Socrates. Everything you read here is the truth. The internet is a wonderful thing until people like dmm slander.
Ah, my good friend Socrates. You disappoint me. Nobody has slandered anybody here. I don't even have to read all the comments to know this to be true. Why am I so confident that this site is slander-free? Because slander can ONLY be spoken. Look it up. Libel is what's written, not slander. But my dear Socrates, you should have known that... or, gasp... maybe YOU'RE not who you claim to be?
Quick, who said this: "The happy owe their happiness to the possession of uprightness and discipline and the miserable their misery to the possession of vice, or else, if what I say is true, to examine what follows from it."
Hint, it's NOT who you think it is.
Q-blog - I am not worthy. I have stated all along that I cannot hold all truth - It is too much for one man. I stand corrected and will make sure I review definitions before my next post. I will also research your riddle. Alciabades, Plato, and the gang will be over tonight.
I sure am glad I dont fallfor a B.S. scheme like team of losers crap!
I find it funny that all the people who support TOD and the other associated groups have not shown a single piece of statistical evidence as to how the system works or that it even does work. Explain where the money comes from and where it goes. Use an example with dollar amounts as to how I will make money. Any other company, such as Walmart or McDonalds, make money by selling to consumers their products or services. No secrets there. These companies release reports where you can see what portion of that 80 cents you just spent on that hamburger goes towards profit and what goes to cost. I don't see where belonging to Quickxtar would make you money unless you are also selling products or services to consumers. All Quickstar says they are someone who "kicks back" money to you for buying their products. If I want to save money on the products I buy I would just clip coupons, shop for products that offer rebates, and get a supermarket or retail store card. Where am I making money in this? I maybe saving a little money, but I suspect no more than by the means I mentioned above, especially after shipping cost. I had a friend who roped me and a couple other guys into talking to a low ranking member of TOD (who, after working nearly a year for this group, has made no money with this group, still works his regular job, and is spending his vacation time setting up meet and greets, but says he will see some money in 2 to 5 years. His vacation was not "living large" on a beach somewhere exotic.) He could not show us any facts or figures, nor could he answer the question as to how do we start our own business. He had no catalog to illustrate products or services. He only seemed interested in selling us tickets to a regional seminar. And why do they need 5 names of my friends? and 5 names of their friends? It doesn't make sense to keep letting in more people to "share profits" when any other non-scrutinized company wants to increase profits they "cut the fat". The only way this would increase profits is if these recruits are actually a way of increasing your customer base, which is what the new members would appear to be. The bottom line is for someone to make money someone has to spend it, and if you’re only selling to members in the company, and your one of those people spending money at the bottom, you are a customer. I have also noticed that more Libel and negative words have come from those belonging to these TOD groups than those who oppose them. dmm and other opponents have not belittled anyone with words, but are asking only for proof, which hasn't been demonstrated. I see the opponents proof and it is supported with facts and figures. I have heard no rebuttal, from the proponents of TOD, in this manner, just slogans and propaganda. All I would like to see is someone belonging to one of these groups tell me how they make money. Example: I buy here at this cost, I sell here at this cost, I sell this amount of product in this amount of time. It has been this consistent. This is my overhead, this is my profit. Are any or all of your customers members? Or something similar, but supported.
qblog, was it Gary Coleman?
Why would a private company feel the need to argue with non-achievers about anything. When I studied the theory of relativity many fellow scientist disagreed. I didn't argue I merely proposed the test to prove my theory and did them. Quixtar will prove their business model by their results not through argument with one person with an agenda. I am now working on a new wave theory so please no more interruptions.
TOD is a Michigan PYRAMID SCHEME. They make money by holding seminars and selling you, the IBO, business support material which is worthless. The only way you make money is by pitching this pyramid scheme to your buddies and hope that they are as dumb as you are and become an IBO. Mean while all of your smart friends will be laughing at you for trying to pitch them this pyramid scheme. These TOD'ers will use all sorts of one liners to get you involved. Only listen to one TODer because if you talk to another one they'll use the same one liners to you also. You'll be like I just talked to Jimmy in ass crack, michigan and he used the horse shit lines as you did. Then there famous uh, uh, uh response will come. That is a TODers famous response because the company has no substance and isn't a real company but a PYRAMID SCHEME
Since the chairman of quixtar is the Executive President of the Chamber of Commerce and the TOD is quixtar's fastest growing team your words ring hollow. Your opinion is no better than my many critics that I had as president. The Tod and Quixtar business plans are bullet proof as you well know. I hope other people recognize the fake id you pose under like I do (Eric, ie. Scott, ie. dmm, ie. lawdawg)
Team of Destiny seems like a classic pyramid scheme. Not only that, but it also fills criteria for being an illegal one in Michigan, as stated at the attorney general website (might have to copy and paste): http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164--44709--,00.html. Here's another site that has some helpful evaluative info: http://www.amquix.info/tod.html.
Anyway, I went to a meeting, not knowing what it was, and it both interested me and scared the crap out of me. Reading these posts, I'm literally hearing all of the same catch phrases that were said at the TOD meeting and on the Orrin Woodward CD I was given. Recurring phrases include the fruit and tree image, the pipeline metaphor, the mine field analogy, "to have what they have you have to know what they know," "follow your dreams," "stop trading your time for money," "45-year plan," 95% / 5% comparison, the image of relaxing on a sunny isle somewhere, "follow your dreams," etc., etc... I know that that does not necessarily make TOD fraudulant, but it's just creepy to me. I found it furthermore creepy when the team members--a few of whom I know personally in other contexts--excitedly discussed some of the "how to get rich" books TOD members must purchase and read. (I wished I had some of my fellow lit. majors with me when these texts were being called "good books," but that is neither here nor there.) The throwing around of catch phrases, the mandatory purchase of books, tapes and other TOD paraphernalia, the reluctance of members to discuss how much they make or how any of the profit percentages break down...too shifty. I said to the speaker, "So, you just don't work? Doing this is enough for you?" and he looked down and cleared his throat, finally responding, "Well, I also work part time at Bennigan's." Yeah, he's totally in the top 5% of income earners.
I inadvertantly agreed to go to some seminar the following day, not intending to actually go, but not thinking much of it. When I later told the guy I would not be attending, he irritably said this was my "only chance," and, predictably, he said I'm guaranteeing a life on the "forty-five-year plan." That didn't come from a genuine concern for my future; it came from a slobbering parasite of a guy who represents the whole sleazy system. The more I learn, the more disgusted I am that they dare to call it "helping people."
The Orrin Woodward CD even sounded like a kind of cult sermon. Maybe these people are rich and also even likeable to some, but they feed off of everyone lower. That's why it's called a pyramid.
I'm not calling it impossible to make money from this, it's just straight-up frantic recruitment to make the parsitic chain bigger. At that initial meeting, I finally said, "So...you buy products online, which makes you some money, but you mostly work at trying to convince people to do the same?" and the speaker responded: "It's not about 'convincing' people, because that sounds like you don't believe in it. You're letting them in on the Plan."
I think finishing college and getting a real job is a better Plan, thank you.
Yeah, your name is creepy to me dude. Why don't you name this top leader that supposedly works at Bennigans. That is total BS unless you were at a 20 person open and it was a beginner showing the plan. You said the same thing about my system. Man it was creepy the bathrooms are always in the same places, french fries in the same spot, even the menus. It is called a system and that is why I am a billionaire and you are broke. Quixtar even has assistant attorney generals on their team. Why didn't they do research like you star man?? I respect a man's privacy, but if you say he is a leader on TOD and works at Bennigans then give us his name or it is BS. The system was the secret for my success what is yours? and don't say trashing quixtar because negatives don't add up to a positive.
Everyone who writes in here leaves fake names pro TOD and con TOD. Personally I know I don't want my name associated with a PYRAMID SCHEME and I don't want anyone knowing that I was on the verge of pitching these pyramid schemes to other people. Don't be that guy to pitch this shit. Your selling them nothing. Your giving them nothing except false hope. The only reason TODers care about their downline is because your making them money. See if they'll talk to you anymore if you stop buying shit off quixtar and quit pitching there shitty plan. They won't because your screwing up the pyramid and they can't make any money. But they want to see you acheive your dreams. Yah they do as long as you can fill in the pyramid. When is the law going to come down and hammer this PYRAMID?
I checked our records and I noticed Big A is not one of our IBO's so you have done both of us a favor. You do not want to represent Quixtar and we do not want you to represent us. Thank you for you thoughtfulness. Good luck in all your future endeavors Big A. To the rest of the Pros on this site I tell you that you will get out of this business what you put into it. Thank you.
No shit Doug I'm not an IBO. I'm not as dumb as you are. Good luck in all of your future endeavors and keep pitching those PYRAMID schemes.
Thanks Big A and you keep selling time for money!
To bad it's only a matter of time before the government intervenes and stops this pyramid scheme. Then what will you clowns do? The only people that make money are the ones at the top and maybe that is you Doug. Good job your screwing everyone. For everyone else it is a mathematical certainty that they won't make any money. When you are pitching your pyramid schme tell them that by becoming an IBO your helping the top of the pyramid only. Then tell them that they can create their own pyramid and still not make anything. Is the government slow to respond in Michigan or are they just waiting for more suckers to join before they stop the pyramid? All I want and what everyone wants who says something negative about TOD is a detailed statement or graph of where the money comes from. Show us which suckers in your downline are making you money. Until you show this or some other clown does do not respond with some horse**** slogan like keep trading your time for money. You sound like a trained monkey like all your other cohorts.
Since the government regulations, many lawyers including me, and thousands of people all prove you wrong there is nothing else to say. I have seen some grumpy people in the courtroom, but you take the cake. Why don't you go have a beer and chill a little.
Great job Doug. When I was at my peak my favorite slogan was "Discretion is the enemy of duplication" Yes you may get criticized for your discipline, but every great company I know of displayed discipline to do it right the first time. When new people are getting started they may mess it up, but I know that repetition is the mother of skill. Big A may not understand, but that doesn't mean it is not right. Do it right, do it the same and it will produce consistent results. Great companies require great discipline, average companies do not have this discipline. Keep it up Doug and congratulations on your best sales day yet!
Why is it when someone asks questions about TOD and Quickstar or proposes faults in the system they are immediately vilified and the questions are not answered? What's up with all the propaganda and slogans? These characteristics are somewhat reminiscent of the Nazi's. And why do you need the name of 5 of my friends? Are they putting together a bridge club?
Why is it when a group of quixtar organizations fully disclose all the revenue streams in the business, with no deception, the cons still act like their is a story. In a free enterprise system is someone doesn't like the tapes then don't buy them, however if someone values the tapes they should not be harassed by someone who doesn't. The cons know the business passes every legal test and now have resorted to name calling. If the cons force people to not listen to tapes just because they don't like them then that is like Sparta did. Which is the forerunner of Nazi tactics. I say live and let live. The pros will follow goverrnment guidelines and the cons should move onto bigger stories. Like the negative pyramid in Las Vegas, or college tuition cost vs. value of education.
JAC- they need names of your friends because that is how the pyramid works. If you have no friends or you can't pitch the PYRAMID to your buddies you are not worth anything to them. No TODer has shown where the money comes from yet. That's all we ask for. No one wants to hear a stupid slogan that every trained monkey in TOD spits out. They won't show us because the only way they make money is if suckers below them buy the products. That is the defenition of a PYRAMID scheme.
The next TODer to respond please enlighten us on WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM!!!! Until that just spout the stupid one liners to each other.
You know what, keep using those stupid slogans. I need my comedy each day by reading your responses.
Any one joing a team with the thought they would make a million would be follish to think that they could do this with out an effort. Like starting a business you could lose money or you could make money. There is no such thing as a fool proof business plan. I've have join the T.O.D. I currently work with an income between $130k to $150k a year. This is my take on T.O.D. People buy and sell things all day long for personal use or to make a profit, so instead of me giving 100% of the profit to other business why can't I have my part of the profit. Any one who buys from Quickstar or T.O.D are buying things they would normaly use or need. So if people above me are making money on me, wouldn't that be the same as paying a store, and if I can get enough people to join my team and I then could become co partner in the business and share int the profit that would normaly be paid to CEO or a business owner, why wouldn't that be a good business plan. All we are doing is buying products to use or sell, this is a simple plan but does require effort. I hope one day not to work my 50-60 hr week away from my family and instead let the people below me grow my business. I'll post my numbers as I grow. I wish the best to every one with a life goal in or out of T.O.D.
Glad to help you get a laugh Big A you need to lighten up and not take everything so seriously.
Oh Big A, thank you for not including the remaining two letters of your last name. It has been much more fun determing what they are from your postings.
I resent your imbibings about PYRAMIDS, as though you are some expert. Stop desecrating my ancestors' creations with your vile. They are sacred testaments to a world long lost to us, created by the ancients for some mysterious purpose. While you, apparently, are without purpose.
I have a question, Where do people think things come from do products just fall out of the sky, do items just appear for us to sell. If everyone were making money for "introducing" people to the team how would everything we buy get there. If we didnt have factory workers and people like that we would have nothing to buy, we could have all the money and the world and it would be useless cause no one would want money if it couldn't get you anything. So if everyone became Independent business owners and no one worked, tell me how things would work??
Wayne- you obviously didn't major in English. Next time you write, please say something of substance. Thank you
Everyone touting TOD here and anywhere else, is using the SAME words over and over. Those words originated in the Amway/Quixtar bible, and they haven't changed in what... 30 years.
No intelligent, hard-working person has to get involved in this TOD crap. TOD knows that, so they go after those with lower intelligence and energy levels; those who think they can get something for nothing. Those who fall for the Amway camouflage, which isn't hard to see through.
Everyone who has said negative has said the same thing for the last 40 years. OK we get the point you don't like networking. Fine then don't do it that is why it is a free country. No matter who says it is illegal, the federal government says it is legal so get a life! Oil and water don't mix and neither do pros and cons. The decision is to you want to be a pro or con about this business and frankly I don't care either way, just don't push your opinion on me!
http://www.amquix.info/tod_what_is_it.html
End of Story
I was wondering if anyone had any GOOD things to say about Team of Destiny, if so what? Is st illegal, and can it work?
Posted by: Gayl | October 3, 2003 9:23 PM